Gun Enthusiasts?

Anthony said:
Then you got a bad one or there was something wrong with the BHP. I've had a MK III Hi Power since 1994 with no malfunctions, ever. I know many others that have the same experience. It is the best 9MM ever made for an all around pistol. It is the Grumman Tiger of hand guns. :D
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Mine came from an Argentinian Army officer we picked up from his sinking sailboat as a 'thank you', it was an Argentinian manufactured under license one. He had carried it through the Falklands war and it had obviously seen a lot of use and abuse. I could grab the slide and jiggle it all over. One day when some buds and I were going shooting I decided to take it as well and see how bad a gun shoots when it gets that worn out, since it had fixed sights as well I figured it would be a wild grouping. I was way wrong, that sucker was dead on at 50' and I could keep em all in the 9 ring. That was my car and fun gun after that for well over a decade. I shot thousands of rounds through it with never a jam.
 
Yes, FN (Fabrique Nationale of Belgium) licensed the Browning Hi Power to FM (don't know what FM stands for) of Agentina to mfg the Hi Power there. It is still being made, and an FM Hi Power is a good value in firearms to this day, but I do prefer the original FN as it is a bit better finished.

The FM Argentine Hi Powers are darn good guns.
 
Steve Foley said:
My inner capitalist sees this as a great opportunity for an entrepreneur to start a new gun manufacturing company.

How many gun designs are no longer protected by patents? Simply pick a few designs and clone them.
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That's funny...I was thinking the exact same thing. You can purchase just about every piece of machinery you would need from Grizzly Industrial. If your a city dweller, soundproof your garage and start cranking them out at home. I think you could get all the equipment you need for around twenty or so thousand. You could even lease it all and be making AR-15s (or 16s if your a gambler) for under five grand cash layout.

We could be like Chinamen, little factories all over America.

-John
 
John Baker said:
That's funny...I was thinking the exact same thing. You can purchase just about every piece of machinery you would need from Grizzly Industrial. If your a city dweller, soundproof your garage and start cranking them out at home. I think you could get all the equipment you need for around twenty or so thousand. You could even lease it all and be making AR-15s (or 16s if your a gambler) for under five grand cash layout.

We could be like Chinamen, little factories all over America.

-John
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Have you looked at the requirements for an FFL?
 
John Baker said:
That's funny...I was thinking the exact same thing. You can purchase just about every piece of machinery you would need from Grizzly Industrial. If your a city dweller, soundproof your garage and start cranking them out at home. I think you could get all the equipment you need for around twenty or so thousand. You could even lease it all and be making AR-15s (or 16s if your a gambler) for under five grand cash layout.

We could be like Chinamen, little factories all over America.

-John
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I have a turn key business for sale in Mississippi that would be double what you need to produce guns. Used to build crude .45's in there. My father toyed with the idea for years. I/he built plenty of gun parts, blued and machined barrels for folks over the years and except for the novelty .45's (make the look like cannons and what not) never built a practical one to completion.
 
If you want to go into gun production and make real money without having a name you need to go full composite break downs so you can get them through security. Unless you have a name behind your brand, you'll not survive without a competitive advantage. You need something that gets through TSA and courthouse/government building security. You'll sell the crap out of them.
 
Henning said:
If you want to go into gun production and make real money without having a name you need to go full composite break downs so you can get them through security. Unless you have a name behind your brand, you'll not survive without a competitive advantage.
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Those idiots who run Red Jacket Firearms on the Sons of Guns TV show made it work. The majority of their work seems to be slapping on rails, sights, and stocks onto production guns and plaster their name on it. If those rednecks can make it happen, anybody can.
 
JB1842 said:
Those idiots who run Red Jacket Firearms on the Sons of Guns TV show made it work. The majority of their work seems to be slapping on rails, sights, and stocks onto production guns and plaster their name on it. If those rednecks can make it happen, anybody can.
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That isn't gun production, that is gun smithing, totally different thing and a decent business. Lots of mechanics make a great living fixing and modifying cars. I don't know anyone that makes a good living off of building new cars from scratch.
 
As the pressure, taxation, fines, fees, and regulations increase on small mom and pop type production facilities, no matter what they are producing, many are closing their doors permanently which is what the regulations and pressure seem to be designed to accomplish.

Others are moving up to Canada or down to Mexico. The ones left are moving into their basements and garages. Many continue being legitimate businesses, others produce product in small quantities completely under the radar of the regulators. Their products are sold as cash transactions only. These people that our regulators have turned into criminals, do not care about FFLs, or any other regulations.

The regulations that are forcing thousands of small businesses underground have people producing product that can be sold at prices much lower than their legitimate counterparts, which in turn forces the ones playing by the rules out of business, or underground.

Our governments are being denied billions of dollars in fees and taxes, but it seems to be their objective. I think what the purpose is designed to accomplish is to move the millions of people who were employed by these small companies into larger, more easily controlled companies. The Communist countries control their work force that way. An electrician does not work in a shop with just a few employees, they work in shops that have thousands of employees.

Anyway, a guy making guns in his basement is a criminal if he does not have a license. Criminals do not care about regulations.

-John
 
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John Baker said:
As the pressure, taxation, fines, fees, and regulations increase on small mom and pop type production facilities, no matter what they are producing, many are closing their doors permanently which is what the regulations and pressure are designed to accomplish.

Others are moving up to Canada or down to Mexico. The ones left are moving into their basements and garages. Many continue being legitimate businesses, others produce product in small quantities completely under the radar of the regulators. Their products are sold as cash transactions only. These people that our regulators have turned into criminals, do not care about FFLs, or any other regulations.

The regulations that are forcing thousands of small businesses underground have people producing product that can be sold at prices much lower than their legitimate counterparts, which in turn forces the ones playing by the rules out of business, or underground.

Our governments are being denied billions of dollars in fees and taxes, but it seems to be their objective. I think what the purpose is designed to accomplish is to move the millions of people who were employed by these small companies into larger, more easily controlled companies. The Communist countries control their work force that way. An electrician does not work in a shop with just a few employees, they work in shops that have thousands of employees.

Anyway, a guy making guns in his basement is a criminal if he does not have a license. Criminals do not care about regulations.

-John
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Right, that is the intent, it's because that is how big business profits the most being able to grow other economies to become mass consumers by manufacturing there while not being penalized here in sales due to tarriffs on foreign parts. Since it means cheaper goods here as well, we only whine about the reduction in money but don't do anything about it because we're too busy watching our $400 tvs and surfing the web on our $700 computers while texting on our $200 clone phones. Big business owns the representatives you send to government. Whose interests do you expect them to represent?
 
Henning said:
That isn't gun production, that is gun smithing, totally different thing and a decent business. Lots of mechanics make a great living fixing and modifying cars. I don't know anyone that makes a good living off of building new cars from scratch.
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They are trying to branch out with some of their own custom built product. But if you have watched the show, you can see how some poeple would think that anybody can start a business.
 
JB1842 said:
They are trying to branch out with some of their own custom built product. But if you have watched the show, you can see how some poeple would think that anybody can start a business.
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Custom piece production can become lucrative, but it takes a long time and a lot of effort and investment to get there. Typically even those who produce custom pieces still take in side work to make make the bottom line happen in their favor. BTW, Anybody can start a business in America, succeeding with that business however....;)
 
Henning said:
Unless you have a name behind your brand, you'll not survive without a competitive advantage.
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The premise that started this discussion is that George Soros was taking care of the competition for us.
 
Henning said:
Custom piece production can become lucrative, but it takes a long time and a lot of effort and investment to get there. Typically even those who produce custom pieces still take in side work to make make the bottom line happen in their favor. BTW, Anybody can start a business in America, succeeding with that business however....;)
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however...when you see those guys in action, it makes you wonder how they are pulling it off. They do good repair work, but when they claim to invent an "industry game changer" and all they do is modify an AK or M4, they look like idiots. And I agree, andbody can start a business, just not everybody can start a sucessful business.
 
JB1842 said:
however...when you see those guys in action, it makes you wonder how they are pulling it off. They do good repair work, but when they claim to invent an "industry game changer" and all they do is modify an AK or M4, they look like idiots. And I agree, andbody can start a business, just not everybody can start a sucessful business.
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They have a TV show, that's how...:rofl::rofl::rofl: Besides the car repair/ mod business is the same, most people know nothing so if someone knows a bit more than them they become the expert. Same for the financial industry. If you don't know the industry then you lack the ability to evaluate the quality of the service provider and you are relegated to using ephemeral information to decide who to use.
 
bartmc said:
We'll see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Firearms_Freedom_Act
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I don't see that holding up based on Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111, 63 S. Ct. 82, 87 L. Ed. 122 (1942).

See http://www.lawnix.com/cases/wickard-filburn.html

Issues

  1. Can Congress regulate the production of wheat intended for personal use and not placed in interstate commerce?
  2. Can Congress regulate trivial local, intrastate activities that have an aggregate effect on interstate commerce via the commerce power?
Holding and Rule (Jackson)

  1. Yes. Congress can regulate the production of wheat intended for personal use and not placed in interstate commerce.
  2. Yes. Congress can regulate trivial local, intrastate activities that have an aggregate effect on interstate commerce via the commerce power, even if the effect is indirect
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Henning said:
They have a TV show, that's how...:rofl::rofl::rofl: Besides the car repair/ mod business is the same, most people know nothing so if someone knows a bit more than them they become the expert. Same for the financial industry. If you don't know the industry then you lack the ability to evaluate the quality of the service provider and you are relegated to using ephemeral information to decide who to use.
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They hit on a successful industry. Reality TV and mall ninjas.
 
JB1842 said:
They hit on a successful industry. Reality TV and mall ninjas.
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Guns are the last bastion of manhood that men have left, that's why they are so popular now. The 'Mommy Lobby' has safety regulated this country for 'The good of the children' so hard that we can't have much fun anymore without breaking the law or spending a crapload of money being compliant. Hell, I checked out the rules for a demolition derby a couple years back and I was gonna have to weld a cage into it before competing. WTF?:dunno: The have not yet been able to get their hands on guns yet though due to the Second Ammendment.

The reality though is that the mommy lobby efforts have produced children who are morons with regards to personal safety. When I see the greenhorns come out of school to offshore, I often wonder how they lived so long.
 
Henning said:
Guns are the last bastion of manhood that men have left, that's why they are so popular now. The 'Mommy Lobby' has safety regulated this country for 'The good of the children' so hard that we can't have much fun anymore without breaking the law or spending a crapload of money being compliant. Hell, I checked out the rules for a demolition derby a couple years back and I was gonna have to weld a cage into it before competing. WTF?:dunno: The have not yet been able to get their hands on guns yet though due to the Second Ammendment.

The reality though is that the mommy lobby efforts have produced children who are morons with regards to personal safety. When I see the greenhorns come out of school to offshore, I often wonder how they lived so long.
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I agree. I really wish people would grow a pair and take responsibility for themselves, instead of trying to push crap on others. Growing up, if I did something stupid and hurt myself, I got a cast on my arm and learned not to do it again. Now you have to protect junior from himself or you are a bad parent.
 
Henning said:
Guns are the last bastion of manhood that men have left, that's why they are so popular now. The 'Mommy Lobby' has safety regulated this country for 'The good of the children' so hard that we can't have much fun anymore without breaking the law or spending a crapload of money being compliant. Hell, I checked out the rules for a demolition derby a couple years back and I was gonna have to weld a cage into it before competing. WTF?:dunno: The have not yet been able to get their hands on guns yet though due to the Second Ammendment.

The reality though is that the mommy lobby efforts have produced children who are morons with regards to personal safety. When I see the greenhorns come out of school to offshore, I often wonder how they lived so long.
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http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/toys/4347051-gun-fighter-toy-cork-gun#slide-2

The picture shows a kid about thirteen or fourteen year old holding a very dangerous cork gun. When I was 13 years old, I was a Bren gunner in the Canadian 43rd Heavy AK AKs, Canadian Army Cadets out of Vancouver.

I had a friend in the Air Cadets who was being trained as a pilot.

That picture looks old, so my guess it was around the early years of the feminization of America.

-John
 
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John Baker said:
Anyway, a guy making guns in his basement is a criminal if he does not have a license. Criminals do not care about regulations.
-John
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For the most part I agree with your opinion but for one detail on this part. A guy making guns in his basement is perfectly legal as long as they aren't NFA (national firearms act-ie machineguns, suppressors, cannons, short barreled rifles or shotguns or AOW's) and as long as they aren't being built for sale. There are a lot of guys out there building guns from old machinegun parts sets and new made US built receivers perfectly legally. There are guys making hunting rifles and pistols perfectly legally. The regs still allow this though as others noted the "mommy lobby" is working on this too. I had to get a manufacturers FFL though in order to make and sell stuff. Dealing with the BATF everyday is about like dealing with the FAA or any other govt agency. Most of the workers in the agencies have little knowledge of the industry/hobby/sport/field etc that they are regulating and most have little interest besides the paycheck and bennies. It makes it very difficult to work with them as they have no idea what is right and what is wrong, only what they've been told by others or what their opinion is.

I've seen the george soros rumor's but know they aren't really true. In fact we don't need that socialist to screw up our industry. We seem to be doing fine on our own.

Frank
 
Lawreston said:
...Just got this one. researched the authenticity, and it's true, it is an attack on our constitutional rights. snopes.com: Marlin Firearms Bought Out by George Soros...
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It's interesting that the OP cites snopes.com as a source, given that snopes.com rates the story as false! :nono:
 
bartmc said:
In other words, can congress decide willy nilly what constitutes interstate commerce so that they can regulated anything they want?

Yes.
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Pretty much.

They use the same excuse to ban drugs.
 
Dr. O said:
In the middle 1950's we would take our shotguns and rifles to school in the trunk of the car for the opening day of bird and deer season...
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We did that in the middle 1990s. Columbine happened the year I graduated highschool.
 
BiffJ said:
For the most part I agree with your opinion but for one detail on this part. A guy making guns in his basement is perfectly legal as long as they aren't NFA (national firearms act-ie machineguns, suppressors, cannons, short barreled rifles or shotguns or AOW's) and as long as they aren't being built for sale. There are a lot of guys out there building guns from old machinegun parts sets and new made US built receivers perfectly legally. There are guys making hunting rifles and pistols perfectly legally. The regs still allow this though as others noted the "mommy lobby" is working on this too. I had to get a manufacturers FFL though in order to make and sell stuff. Dealing with the BATF everyday is about like dealing with the FAA or any other govt agency. Most of the workers in the agencies have little knowledge of the industry/hobby/sport/field etc that they are regulating and most have little interest besides the paycheck and bennies. It makes it very difficult to work with them as they have no idea what is right and what is wrong, only what they've been told by others or what their opinion is.

I've seen the george soros rumor's but know they aren't really true. In fact we don't need that socialist to screw up our industry. We seem to be doing fine on our own.

Frank
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Yep, the brother of the guys I worked for had a fully legal Ma Deuce, that thing was fun.

:idea:They pulled enough old radio out of my nose I could probably mount one..

However, that has not been the experience with FAA employees. Most I know have been long time aviation workers in the military industrial sector. They typically do know about their sector in aviation. The pilot examiners I know from the FAA, and the Long Beach FSDO guys in general would come hang out in our hangar, drink coffee and eat donuts and teriaki chicken sticks if it was rainy when the break truck came; they were all avid pilots and instructors. I don't recall an evil one among them, although given mankind they are sure to exist.
.
 
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Henning said:
Custom piece production can become lucrative, but it takes a long time and a lot of effort and investment to get there. Typically even those who produce custom pieces still take in side work to make make the bottom line happen in their favor. BTW, Anybody can start a business in America, succeeding with that business however....;)
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I am an owner in a business that makes custom sniper rifles (venom tactical.com). Of all the businesses you can start, this is one of the harder ones to make money at. Producing a really quality product involves so much skilled labor per rifle that while one gifted person can make a living at it, scaling the business without making crap is incredibly difficult.

Also, just as a side note, I found obtaining an FFL was not particularly difficult and I have also found the ATF very helpful and supportive. I am sure this varies by region but we have had a few inspectors roll through our area and they have all been good to work with.
 
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