Guest Editorial: The Death of General Aviation?

The ASTM process for the certification of LSAs shows the shortcomings of leaving the standards to industry to figure out. We already had one where the wings fall off and a couple with really squirrely handling characteristics.

And no certified aircraft has ever had problems, including major ones? Seems to me that many of them have, especially newer ones. A lot of the older aircraft out there have the benefit of having had lots of flight time, which means over the years people have discovered their shortcomings for us.
 
The G500 is not yet available for the plane, although it may be later this year. However, with the G500 installation, I still have the problem of using the older system for air data and engine instruments, so it doesn't solve all of my problems yet. It is still a really good option when it becomes available, but it is not yet available to me.

However, my broader point was that all of these things that seem as if they should be available to we airplane owners are not. They are not available because of the time and expense involved in jumping through the certification hoops that the FAA has created.
The G500/600 use the same air data computer and sensors as the G1000. You are stuck with old engine instruments but that was not a big issue for me. SVT is half the price for the G500 as it is for the G1000. I'm not sure what you fly but Garmin states that the G500 is approved for 600 different aircraft.

OLATHE, Kan., 10 Aug. 2009 Garmin International Inc., a unit of Garmin Ltd. (NASDAQ: GRMN), announced today that it received Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Approved Model List Supplemental Type Certification (AML STC) for the G500, a new avionics suite. The FAA's approval allows the G500 to be installed in nearly 600 different makes and models of normal and utility category Part 23 Class I and Class II aircraft, which are defined as single and twin-engine piston and turbine engine aircraft under 6,000 pounds.

The G500 is available now at an introductory suggested retail price of $15,995. It includes the GDU 620 display/control unit, GRS 77 AHRS, GDC 74A digital air data computer, GMU 44 tri-axial magnetometer, and GTP 59 temp probe. The optional SVT and GAD 43 are available for $4995 and $2995, respectively.
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/in...cation-for-nearly-600-different-aircraft.html
 
And no certified aircraft has ever had problems, including major ones? Seems to me that many of them have, especially newer ones. A lot of the older aircraft out there have the benefit of having had lots of flight time, which means over the years people have discovered their shortcomings for us.
But I don't think that just because there have been failures in certified aircraft that we should eliminate the process completely. With no certification requirement I think there would have been even more failures. I agree that the process could be streamlined but I don't think we should eliminate it.
 
The G500/600 use the same air data computer and sensors as the G1000. You are stuck with old engine instruments but that was not a big issue for me. SVT is half the price for the G500 as it is for the G1000. I'm not sure what you fly but Garmin states that the G500 is approved for 600 different aircraft.

OLATHE, Kan., 10 Aug. 2009 Garmin International Inc., a unit of Garmin Ltd. (NASDAQ: GRMN), announced today that it received Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Approved Model List Supplemental Type Certification (AML STC) for the G500, a new avionics suite. The FAA's approval allows the G500 to be installed in nearly 600 different makes and models of normal and utility category Part 23 Class I and Class II aircraft, which are defined as single and twin-engine piston and turbine engine aircraft under 6,000 pounds.

The G500 is available now at an introductory suggested retail price of $15,995. It includes the GDU 620 display/control unit, GRS 77 AHRS, GDC 74A digital air data computer, GMU 44 tri-axial magnetometer, and GTP 59 temp probe. The optional SVT and GAD 43 are available for $4995 and $2995, respectively.
http://www.militaryaerospace.com/in...cation-for-nearly-600-different-aircraft.html


All of that is true, but nonetheless, the G500 is not currently certificated for installation into a Piper Meridian, which is what I fly. Currently, the issue remaining is the integration of the autopilot into the system. It will get certified for the Meridian eventually, but is not yet. The anticipated numbers for the install in this airplane are also dramatically higher than the numbers in the article would indicate.

My point was that I can go buy a G1000 Meridian tomorrow, but I cannot take my airplane and put a G1000 into it because that requires a separate certification by Garmin and Piper, despite the fact that it is virtually an identical airplane. They are not willing to go through the expense because they will not recoup their costs and Piper does not want competition against their newer airplanes.
 
But I don't think that just because there have been failures in certified aircraft that we should eliminate the process completely. With no certification requirement I think there would have been even more failures. I agree that the process could be streamlined but I don't think we should eliminate it.

I'm not sure you could say one way or another. An irresponsible company will be an irresponsible company regardless of whether or not you put certification requirements in place. The difference is that it's only slightly harder to be irresponsible.

From what people who've been involved in certification years back have told me, it's gotten much, much more difficult. Yet the old airplanes that were certified 40 or 50 years ago that we fly today seem to have made it just fine with "lesser" certification standards, and we don't question it.
 
I have been told by persons who seemed more knowledgeable than I that in previous generations those who designed and built aircraft were far more familiar with those who regulated them, and this relationship helped smooth certification and reduce costs. Nothing sinister, just the builders knew what the regulators wanted, and the regulators knew what the builders could do. My experiences in regulatory bodies suggest that this could indeed occur. I was told that there was a breakdown of this process in the eighties, when many in both aerospace and the FAA retired, and American companies more or less stopped making light aircraft.
 
I'm not sure you could say one way or another. An irresponsible company will be an irresponsible company regardless of whether or not you put certification requirements in place. The difference is that it's only slightly harder to be irresponsible.
You have a lot more faith than I do in the willingness of companies, and people, to do the right thing in the absence of regulation.

From what people who've been involved in certification years back have told me, it's gotten much, much more difficult. Yet the old airplanes that were certified 40 or 50 years ago that we fly today seem to have made it just fine with "lesser" certification standards, and we don't question it.
But "lesser" is not the same as "none". Besides, were the standards lesser or is it just that today's red tape is greater? I know that some requirements are new, such as the requirement for shoulder harnesses in new aircraft and the standardization of some of the instruments and controls. I see that as a good thing, though.
 
From what people who've been involved in certification years back have told me, it's gotten much, much more difficult. Yet the old airplanes that were certified 40 or 50 years ago that we fly today seem to have made it just fine with "lesser" certification standards, and we don't question it.

I think this is attributable to several causes:

1) I think there's ample evidence that many production GA aircraft designed between 1935 and 1975 were "over-engineered" with tolerances on the plus side to cover unknown gaps. With the advent of Six Sigma and such "lean" techniques, every ounce is scrutinzed. "Why use .020 when .040 will work?"

2) There was significant competition in GA's "golden age," and manufacturers were loathe to be painted with the "dangerous airplane" brush. BE-35s suffered a rash of in-flight breakups and much ink was spilt with no definitive conclusion. Yet Cessna sales folk rode the "No strut-braced Cessna has ever broken up in flight!" train for as long and as hard as possible.

3) GA has inspired a wide spectrum of dreams, from fun hobby to reliable transportation. Very few older aircraft (1930-1945) were sold as cross country machines. The few that were were expensive.

In the late 50s the focus changed to "Go anywhere!" and the airplanes had to match the marketing. 50 years of experience has shown that GA birds are no match for severe weather. The airlines fly higher, have more redundant and reliable systems, and follow tightly controlled procedure before launching. We IMC fliers don't have the option or overflying most IMC.

So we're selling a product that has less capability but will achieve the same ends?

Anyway, the equation has been solved and it ain't good: Single, less reliable power + single pilot + less reliable systems + less intense maintainance + less regulated + less procedural = more incidents.

So the bloom is off the rose. If you want to fly GA as transport you have to be very disciplined and very good and very committed. Period.

And most people just don't have the time, desire, and therefore commitment.

Those of us that fly will scrape and beg and borrow to enjoy flight, but it's not an everyman deal the way golf, quads, and fishing are, and will never be, despite the marketing efforts.

LSA sells the joy of flight without (as much) of the transport sell. And that seems to be working, but for the small percentage of folks that are willing to pay for that experience.
 
Garmin apparently thought that it was worth certifying the G1000 for King Airs and Citations because they can sell enough of the systems to cover the cost of certification.

Or because they can sell it at a silly profit margin to make it worth their while.
 
Is aviation's overall safety record evidence of whether the certification process is effective or not?

When looking exclusively at GA, how often are accidents/incidents the result of something addressed in the certification process?

Keep in mind that, in the absence of certification, the only "carrot/stick" that exists is the tort system. How reliable is that? I certainly don't trust lawsuits to keep me safe; I'm not convinced that "deterrence through liability" is terribly effective until a problem is discovered - keep in mind that the tort system is more of a post hoc remedy, as opposed to a true prophylactic.

As for tort reform (I'm hoping I'm posting this in the right thread, there are a couple going), I wouldn't mind seeing liability tied to compliance with the regs (presuming that we keep a fairly heavy regulatory system in place). For instance, assuming compliance with the applicable regulations, either immunize a manufacturer from liability or cap damages. If something is unregulated, leave tort liability available as the remaining carrot/stick. In different terms, "compliance with the regulations limits/voids your tort liability, non-compliance results in tort liability, and if something is not regulated the possibility of tort liability remains."

Frankly, I don't see the point of having a "dual system" of both regulation and tort liability - the interests are, of necessity, competing. Pick one or the other.
 
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As for tort reform (I'm hoping I'm posting this in the right thread, there are a couple going), I wouldn't mind seeing liability tied to compliance with the regs (presuming that we keep a fairly heavy regulatory system in place). For instance, assuming compliance with the applicable regulations, either immunize a manufacturer from liability or cap damages. If something is unregulated, leave tort liability available as the remaining carrot/stick. In different terms, "compliance with the regulations limits/voids your tort liability, non-compliance results in tort liability, and if something is not regulated the possibility of tort liability remains."

Frankly, I don't see the point of having a "dual system" of both regulation and tort liability - the interests are, of necessity, competing. Pick one or the other.
I also agree that this is a good idea.
 

To elaborate some, I just don't see neither incentive nor the point of going through a very rigorous certification process, only to continue to face massive tort liability after it's over, even if you complied with it to the letter.

So, presuming we've got a very thorough certification process that satisfies the best gov't minds we've got working on these things, why not either eliminate or limit liability for your actions that conform with the regulations?

In other words, why not have the regulations serve as both: 1) protection for the general public; and 2) protection for the manufacturer when they're complied with?
 
To elaborate some, I just don't see neither incentive nor the point of going through a very rigorous certification process, only to continue to face massive tort liability after it's over, even if you complied with it to the letter.

So, presuming we've got a very thorough certification process that satisfies the best gov't minds we've got working on these things, why not either eliminate or limit liability for your actions that conform with the regulations?

In other words, why not have the regulations serve as both: 1) protection for the general public; and 2) protection for the manufacturer when they're complied with?

Terrible grammar there. It started as "either/or" .... :)
 
You have a lot more faith than I do in the willingness of companies, and people, to do the right thing in the absence of regulation.

Not really. It's more that I've seen enough to know that people who want to do something stupid will do so irrespective of regulation.

But "lesser" is not the same as "none". Besides, were the standards lesser or is it just that today's red tape is greater? I know that some requirements are new, such as the requirement for shoulder harnesses in new aircraft and the standardization of some of the instruments and controls. I see that as a good thing, though.

There's probably a bit of both. The requirements have changed and gotten significantly more strict. As the saying goes, the FARs are written in blood, with new lines added after wrecks. Additionally, these days many more tools exist for performing modeling and testing that are more complex and expensive than what was available in the past. While computers have made many things faster, slide rules were cheaper. The government has decided (at the request of many of its people) that it is here to protect us from ourselves, and so the red tape is strewn from floor to ceiling, and several feet thick.

Like many other things in society, it's happened slowly over time, and so people accept it and move on. Some things have been good, but once the bad things get put in place, they don't get removed.
 
I think this is attributable to several causes:

1) I think there's ample evidence that many production GA aircraft designed between 1935 and 1975 were "over-engineered" with tolerances on the plus side to cover unknown gaps. With the advent of Six Sigma and such "lean" techniques, every ounce is scrutinzed. "Why use .020 when .040 will work?"

2) There was significant competition in GA's "golden age," and manufacturers were loathe to be painted with the "dangerous airplane" brush. BE-35s suffered a rash of in-flight breakups and much ink was spilt with no definitive conclusion. Yet Cessna sales folk rode the "No strut-braced Cessna has ever broken up in flight!" train for as long and as hard as possible.

3) GA has inspired a wide spectrum of dreams, from fun hobby to reliable transportation. Very few older aircraft (1930-1945) were sold as cross country machines. The few that were were expensive.

In the late 50s the focus changed to "Go anywhere!" and the airplanes had to match the marketing. 50 years of experience has shown that GA birds are no match for severe weather. The airlines fly higher, have more redundant and reliable systems, and follow tightly controlled procedure before launching. We IMC fliers don't have the option or overflying most IMC.

So we're selling a product that has less capability but will achieve the same ends?

Anyway, the equation has been solved and it ain't good: Single, less reliable power + single pilot + less reliable systems + less intense maintainance + less regulated + less procedural = more incidents.

So the bloom is off the rose. If you want to fly GA as transport you have to be very disciplined and very good and very committed. Period.

And most people just don't have the time, desire, and therefore commitment.

Those of us that fly will scrape and beg and borrow to enjoy flight, but it's not an everyman deal the way golf, quads, and fishing are, and will never be, despite the marketing efforts.

LSA sells the joy of flight without (as much) of the transport sell. And that seems to be working, but for the small percentage of folks that are willing to pay for that experience.

I don't think any of this addresses what I was saying at all. This more addresses why GA is falling, but has nothing to do with the fact that certification requirements now are significantly more difficult and strict than years past, but, if anything, we're seeing worse aircraft than their equivalents 50 years ago. Take an SR20 vs., say, an M20F. I'll take the M20F any day of the week, thank you.
 
To elaborate some, I just don't see neither incentive nor the point of going through a very rigorous certification process, only to continue to face massive tort liability after it's over, even if you complied with it to the letter.

So, presuming we've got a very thorough certification process that satisfies the best gov't minds we've got working on these things, why not either eliminate or limit liability for your actions that conform with the regulations?

In other words, why not have the regulations serve as both: 1) protection for the general public; and 2) protection for the manufacturer when they're complied with?


I absolutely wholeheartedly completely totally agree that compliance with regulations should be sufficient.

One consideration: generally regulations come about through a cooperative effort (in the USA) between the FAA, air frame manufacturers, avionics vendors, airlines, users, and whatever other alphabet soup I missed. We would have to be careful that the process for creating new regulations doesn't get too hard or that demonstrating compliance doesn't get too easy/hard.
 
I don't think any of this addresses what I was saying at all. This more addresses why GA is falling, but has nothing to do with the fact that certification requirements now are significantly more difficult and strict than years past, but, if anything, we're seeing worse aircraft than their equivalents 50 years ago. Take an SR20 vs., say, an M20F. I'll take the M20F any day of the week, thank you.

I only quoted your post since I think it was germane to the design question.

I think the ruggedness and longevity of the older designs had several factors at work (per my post; engineering approach and competition).

The closer tolerance/ less material / less "fudge" trend is not merely at work in airplanes, though, and is a de facto expectation in all design efforts.
 
Not really. It's more that I've seen enough to know that people who want to do something stupid will do so irrespective of regulation.

....

This is why I say make regulatory compliance a form of "quasi-immunity" against tort lawsuits.

First, it provides a very real carrot for complying with the regs - if you know you're going to avoid liability by doing so, that's a very high incentive (although I'd be interested to know what percentage of GA costs are attributable to litigation, esp. "wrongful" litigation).

Second, non-compliance with the regs could/would still be governed by tort law, which would address your very real statement re: people who just won't comply. It's: 1) the stick in the equation against non-compliance; and 2) a way to encourage good products on the back end of things (regulation is on the front end).

In my eyes, I think that's a reasonable compromise between: 1) the interests of society in not having anything swamped by litigation when there has been bona fide compliance with duties; and 2) the interests of society in having those responsible for injuries caused by failing to comply with duties held responsible for them.

Does anyone have any critiques or alternative suggestions?
 
I only quoted your post since I think it was germane to the design question.

That makes more sense. :)

I think the ruggedness and longevity of the older designs had several factors at work (per my post; engineering approach and competition).

The closer tolerance/ less material / less "fudge" trend is not merely at work in airplanes, though, and is a de facto expectation in all design efforts.

I agree.

This is why I say make regulatory compliance a form of "quasi-immunity" against tort lawsuits.

First, it provides a very real carrot for complying with the regs - if you know you're going to avoid liability by doing so, that's a very high incentive (although I'd be interested to know what percentage of GA costs are attributable to litigation, esp. "wrongful" litigation).

Second, non-compliance with the regs could/would still be governed by tort law, which would address your very real statement re: people who just won't comply. It's: 1) the stick in the equation against non-compliance; and 2) a way to encourage good products on the back end of things (regulation is on the front end).

In my eyes, I think that's a reasonable compromise between: 1) the interests of society in not having anything swamped by litigation when there has been bona fide compliance with duties; and 2) the interests of society in having those responsible for injuries caused by failing to comply with duties held responsible for them.

Does anyone have any critiques or alternative suggestions?

I'd say that would be a good compromise, yes.
 
...
I'd say that would be a good compromise, yes.

This is about 1/4 remembered from years ago, but I *think* the system already exists in the military contracting setting.

For instance, let's say a Blackhawk helicopter goes down due to some kind of defect on a manufacturer's part. Maybe the families of those killed in the crash file suit against whoever makes the part.

The Blackhawk, along with 99% of everything else the gov't uses, is built to certain specifications and plans provided to the contractor by the gov't.

The rule is that if the manufacturer has complied with the plans/specs provided, the mfgr. gets immunity from the lawsuit.

Yet, how many of us would feel perfectly comfortable taking a ride on, say, an F-15? In other words, the immunity from liability for providing something complying with a de facto regulation hasn't had a noticeable impact on safety (at least to my knowledge).

On the other hand, say that the gov't design required bolts of Strength A, but the contractor decided to use bolts of Strength D (less quality) because D-bolts are cheaper. Sue away, says I - that's some BS shoddy crap (look at the origins of the word "shoddy"). I don't think that's objectionable; I don't think even the most outspoken advocates for tort reform would object to suing the daylights of a contractor that did something like that.

I'm probably not 100% accurate on what the law is here, but I think that's close.

So, I just don't see much problem with adopting a similar system on a wider basis - so long, as Bob pointed out above, it's not abused.
 
Anyway, if anyone ever wanted to send a letter to a congresscritter for a proposal along these lines, I'd be glad to collaborate. I really do think that it would be a good way to reform activities that are heavily regulated (everything from aviation to things like pharmaceuticals). And, what's the saying - 1,000 miles begins with a footstep? Maybe some legislator somewhere would think it's a good idea.
 
The Blackhawk, along with 99% of everything else the gov't uses, is built to certain specifications and plans provided to the contractor by the gov't.

The rule is that if the manufacturer has complied with the plans/specs provided, the mfgr. gets immunity from the lawsuit.

Yet, how many of us would feel perfectly comfortable taking a ride on, say, an F-15? In other words, the immunity from liability for providing something complying with a de facto regulation hasn't had a noticeable impact on safety (at least to my knowledge).

Hmmm.. this is a bit sticky.

The costs incurred by the government developing all the specifications are substantial.

I like the result, but think the implementation differences are too great.
 
Not really. It's more that I've seen enough to know that people who want to do something stupid will do so irrespective of regulation.
I think there are a lot of things that people would not do if it was not required. I've seen some of the ways people repair their cars. In fact years ago I took mine to someone recommended by a friend. I wasn't too happy that he replaced some gasket with cardboard instead of buying a regular gasket. Then he bragged about it saying that he saved me a few dollars. He didn't ask me before he did it either.

Companies always chase the dollar. I think there would be many more corners cut if it wasn't for regulations and the threat of lawsuits. However I agree that Obi's idea is a good compromise.
 
Interesting proposition -- is there precendent?

I'm honestly not sure. There's the military contract setting, which isn't exactly on point as you've stated.

As far as "compliance with the law = compliance with standard of care," to my knowledge the only precedent is that the two aren't necessarily related. Meaning that complying with the law isn't necessarily complying with the standard of care, and complying with the standard of care isn't necessarily complying with the law.

For instance, say the speed limit is 55. Let's say you're going 65. Even though you're breaking the law, you're not necessarily being negligent.

Also, say the speed limit is 55, and you're doing 55. You're not necessarily being "unnegligent" - what if it's snowing?

For things that aren't heavily regulated, that's fine. The speed limit example makes sense.

But, things like aircraft development are very heavily regulated - I mean, my understanding of the certification process is that everything is examined, spelled out, and has to be complied with before you've got a market-ready product. In that kind of setting, I say that we should provide at least some kind of immunity, if not more.

Hmmm.. this is a bit sticky.

The costs incurred by the government developing all the specifications are substantial.

I like the result, but think the implementation differences are too great.

I know very little about how the gov't goes about developing designs (or adopting them), and nearly as little about how the FAA goes about certifying things, but are they really that different in effect? What I mean is: aren't they both doing the same thing, but in the former the gov't is doing it to meet its own standards, whereas in the latter private industry is doing it in the hope of meeting the gov't standards?

For instance, when the M1 was developed, I'm guessing that it was gone over with a fine-toothed comb - everything from how quickly the steel in the barrel would wear, to how wide the treads were and what angle slope they'd provide traction on.

With the FAA, doesn't it go over a new aircraft design with a fine-toothed comb, as well? Everything from insulation on the wiring to whether the toilet waste system will affect weight/balance?

Anyway, what I'm thinking is that if a private mfgr.'s design is sufficient to meet the FAA's criteria (which I assume are pretty stringent, right?), can't we safely say that, if the approved design is complied with, the mfgr. has satisfied its duty of care and should be immunized from liability?

Now, the problem with that is that it still leaves the door open for a determination of whether the mfgr. complied with the approved designs (e.g., arguing over whether the specified grade of rubber was actually used in the tires) - but the costs of that fight are far less than the costs of a full-blown lawsuit, and the question is pretty easily determined.

Anyway, just thinking out loud. :)
 
I think there are a lot of things that people would not do if it was not required. I've seen some of the ways people repair their cars. In fact years ago I took mine to someone recommended by a friend. I wasn't too happy that he replaced some gasket with cardboard instead of buying a regular gasket. Then he bragged about it saying that he saved me a few dollars. He didn't ask me before he did it either.

Companies always chase the dollar. I think there would be many more corners cut if it wasn't for regulations and the threat of lawsuits. However I agree that Obi's idea is a good compromise.

I know people who've done the same, and it makes me shake my head on a good day and get angry on a bad day. But what makes you think that the threat of certification or punishment causes A&Ps to do differently? I've seen no shortage of engines that make me wonder how the plane was still flying. In some cases, the answer is more obvious... like when the engine is in multiple pieces.

I agree in principle that typically having some regulations is a good thing. In practice, it probably does do some good, but I'm not convinced as much good as it's supposed to.
 
I know very little about how the gov't goes about developing designs (or adopting them), and nearly as little about how the FAA goes about certifying things, but are they really that different in effect? What I mean is: aren't they both doing the same thing, but in the former the gov't is doing it to meet its own standards, whereas in the latter private industry is doing it in the hope of meeting the gov't standards?

For instance, when the M1 was developed, I'm guessing that it was gone over with a fine-toothed comb - everything from how quickly the steel in the barrel would wear, to how wide the treads were and what angle slope they'd provide traction on.

Well... sorta.

:)

Today's competition is the Navy's Littoral Combat Ship. There are two "Sea Frames" and they are very different. The government is supposed to define the requirements (an extensive database of "The system Shall..." statement that defines what the thing will do, to what level, etc) and then the vendor builds a product that meets the requirements.

So the Army didn't say "The track shall be 32" wide and exert 17 lbs of pressure per square inch."

Rather, it said, "The armored vehicle shall exert no more than 20 pls/psi"

(No "and" statements in good requirements).

There's a big process called JCIDS that maps it all out, but simplified, it's the way the Department of Defense describes the house ("Five bedrooms, 2 1/2 bath, bi-level, 2 car garage..."). The architect, designer, and builder build the house based on the requirements.
 
But what makes you think that the threat of certification or punishment causes A&Ps to do differently?
There was that time when we were out of town and the voltage regulator in a C-206 went out. The choice was having a part shipped in FedEx overnight or going down to the Ford dealer and buying one there. The mechanic offered to let me use his tools if I opted for choice two. If there had been no threat of punishment I'm sure he would have done it himself while charging his hourly rate. Now it may be true that this is the same voltage regulator and it may have worked perfectly, but I don't have enough knowledge to determine that, and I wasn't going to install it in someone else's airplane even if I was convinced it was safe.
 
Well... sorta.

:)

Today's competition is the Navy's Littoral Combat Ship. There are two "Sea Frames" and they are very different. The government is supposed to define the requirements (an extensive database of "The system Shall..." statement that defines what the thing will do, to what level, etc) and then the vendor builds a product that meets the requirements.

So the Army didn't say "The track shall be 32" wide and exert 17 lbs of pressure per square inch."

Rather, it said, "The armored vehicle shall exert no more than 20 pls/psi"

(No "and" statements in good requirements).

There's a big process called JCIDS that maps it all out, but simplified, it's the way the Department of Defense describes the house ("Five bedrooms, 2 1/2 bath, bi-level, 2 car garage..."). The architect, designer, and builder build the house based on the requirements.

Interesting - thanks for that explanation.

The next question: with the LCS, for instance, what's involved in selecting the design to be used? I'm sure the details aren't appropriate for posting on an internet forum, but generally, how vigorous is the routine?
 
There was that time when we were out of town and the voltage regulator in a C-206 went out. The choice was having a part shipped in FedEx overnight or going down to the Ford dealer and buying one there. The mechanic offered to let me use his tools if I opted for choice two. If there had been no threat of punishment I'm sure he would have done it himself while charging his hourly rate. Now it may be true that this is the same voltage regulator and it may have worked perfectly, but I don't have enough knowledge to determine that, and I wasn't going to install it in someone else's airplane even if I was convinced it was safe.

And do you think he would have acted differently if certification wasn't an issue?
 
Interesting - thanks for that explanation.

The next question: with the LCS, for instance, what's involved in selecting the design to be used? I'm sure the details aren't appropriate for posting on an internet forum, but generally, how vigorous is the routine?

I worked on ASW & MIW mission packages.

There were dozens of people working full time on requirements tracing alone.

It's amazingly byzantine.
 
And do you think he would have acted differently if certification wasn't an issue?
He wouldn't have tried avoid all responsibility. I realize he was just trying to be helpful but he didn't want his hands or his signature anywhere near that unauthorized part. Of course even if approval was not needed I couldn't change it legally anyway since I'm not an A&P, not to mention the fact that I have no idea how to do it properly.

Some people may be comfortable with the idea that you should be able to get parts for your airplane from anywhere and install them. I'm sure that some people would do a great job and go to a lot of trouble researching which parts are best. Then there would be the ones who would be into into, "let's try this!"
 
Zero chance of an $80k C-182. The RV-10 kit alone costs $40k. Sure, there's a little profit in there, but very little liability cost.

Do you really think that there's "very little" liability cost in that? Vans can get sued just as easily as any other manufacturer. Sure, the builder built it... But the lawyers will insist that the kit itself was at fault, not the builder. They'll sue anyone with a buck in their pocket.
 
Some people may be comfortable with the idea that you should be able to get parts for your airplane from anywhere and install them. I'm sure that some people would do a great job and go to a lot of trouble researching which parts are best. Then there would be the ones who would be into into, "let's try this!"

This hits it on the head, unsurprising given the source. I remember an old Kawasaki I owned. Every time I fixed something on that bike, parts came out that shouldn't have been there in the first place. I can only imagine what it would be like for an airplane.

Of course we do have the experimental community from which we can draw lessons. Experimental aircraft do suffer a greater number of malfunctions than their certificated brethren, but not ruinously so. I suppose the FAA sees it as the first aircraft that crashes into a school because the owner decided to substitute an inappropriate part would be an unmitigated disaster. It took only two crashes emanating from a Las Vegas airport to start talk of prohibiting experimentals from said airport.
 
He wouldn't have tried avoid all responsibility. I realize he was just trying to be helpful but he didn't want his hands or his signature anywhere near that unauthorized part. Of course even if approval was not needed I couldn't change it legally anyway since I'm not an A&P, not to mention the fact that I have no idea how to do it properly.

Some people may be comfortable with the idea that you should be able to get parts for your airplane from anywhere and install them. I'm sure that some people would do a great job and go to a lot of trouble researching which parts are best. Then there would be the ones who would be into into, "let's try this!"

I agree, but my point is that such things happen already.
 
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