GTN 750 Newbie

[jredner]

Hi,

I just stepped up from a 172 to 182 with an Aspen EFD1000 Pro, KAP140 dual axis, and a GTN 750.

I can use some help with a couple things that I haven't been able to find good documentation on anywhere:

1. Miss holds or procedure turns - how do I get the hold coupled with my auto-pilot. I was able to get auto-pilot / 750 to fly the miss, but the hold was not executed. The autopilot flew to the hold though and it was pink on the 750, so I feel like there is something I didn't do to engage the auto-pilot.

2. Misses - How do I get the 750 to show the suspend/resume buttons earlier. It seems like the miss buttons are after the missed approach point and I'd like to make a decision before that and have the 750 execute the miss when I want.

3. Holds - is there a way to execute an hold at an arbitrary intersection?

Thanks in advance for any pointers!



Jordan

 

[LDJones]

I haven't flown that combination, but as I recall from an Aspen/430W setup you need to be in heading bug mode for the Aspen to fly the hold via GPSS. It's been a few months since I've flown that setup, so I could be wrong.

 

[tmyers]

The 650 750 simulator flies the hold as well. Not sure why yours is not.

 

[jredner]

I haven't flown that combination, but as I recall from an Aspen/430W setup you need to be in heading bug mode for the Aspen to fly the hold via GPSS. It's been a few months since I've flown that setup, so I could be wrong.

hmmm... I usually interact with the auto-pilot to engage not the aspen. My aspen shows GPS1 and the 750 shows GPS (vs. CDI) selected. To get an approach to engage for example, I find it doesn't engage when I'm in HDG mode only. I have to be in NAV mode. That all being said, I guess I'll try to stay in HDG mode for a hold and see if that works.

 

[tmyers]

I would love to know how you like that arrangement once you have it all sorted out. I am considering either the Aspen and 750 or the Aspen and 650 upgrade.

 

[Marauder]

Hi,

I just stepped up from a 172 to 182 with an Aspen EFD1000 Pro, KAP140 dual axis, and a GTN 750.

I can use some help with a couple things that I haven't been able to find good documentation on anywhere:

1. Miss holds or procedure turns - how do I get the hold coupled with my auto-pilot. I was able to get auto-pilot / 750 to fly the miss, but the hold was not executed. The autopilot flew to the hold though and it was pink on the 750, so I feel like there is something I didn't do to engage the auto-pilot.

2. Misses - How do I get the 750 to show the suspend/resume buttons earlier. It seems like the miss buttons are after the missed approach point and I'd like to make a decision before that and have the 750 execute the miss when I want.

3. Holds - is there a way to execute an hold at an arbitrary intersection?

Thanks in advance for any pointers!



Jordan

1) May be different since my AP is an STEC. The Aspen is capable of driving GPSS. That is the mode it needs to be in to fly a GPS hold (ex. holding pattern). When you flew the approach, you probably are in heading mode on the AP and then hit Nav or Approach (again depends on how your AP functions) to get the AP to fly the GPS signal for the approach. It will fly the navigation signal (I.e. the approach) but not the missed. When you go missed, you switch back to HDG mode and then engage GPSS if it is not so already on the Aspen.

2) The sequence is always to show these when you reach the missed point (0.0 nm). You can hit the "Default Nav" button and they will be available to you there before the missed.

3) Never done it and I doubt it will give you a pictorial view of a hold. You may be able to define the leg with the OBS from the intersection, but I think it may need to be done the old fashion way (drawn on paper to see the hold).

 

[Marauder]

I would love to know how you like that arrangement once you have it all sorted out. I am considering either the Aspen and 750 or the Aspen and 650 upgrade.

Run! Run! And then run faster! That is my only warning to you! Because once you fly behind that combination, you wil never want to go back! I flew IFR for 22 years with dual ILS capable recievers and an ADF. Once I switched over, I never knew what I was missing -- except all the money in my bank account!

 

[jredner]

1) May be different since my AP is an STEC. The Aspen is capable of driving GPSS. That is the mode it needs to be in to fly a GPS hold (ex. holding pattern). When you flew the approach, you probably are in heading mode on the AP and then hit Nav or Approach (again depends on how your AP functions) to get the AP to fly the GPS signal for the approach. It will fly the navigation signal (I.e. the approach) but not the missed. When you go missed, you switch back to HDG mode and then engage GPSS if it is not so already on the Aspen.

2) The sequence is always to show these when you reach the missed point (0.0 nm). You can hit the "Default Nav" button and they will be available to you there before the missed.

3) Never done it and I doubt it will give you a pictorial view of a hold. You may be able to define the leg with the OBS from the intersection, but I think it may need to be done the old fashion way (drawn on paper to see the hold).

This is really helpful. I'll give this a shot and let you know. Thanks so much.

 

[jredner]

It's pretty awesome. I keep asking my CFI, what am I missing? The amount of workload reduced from my previous steam-gauge, non-AP setup is almost too good to be true. I'm new, only flown about 8 flights with this setup, but I really like the usability of the 750 UI. I think Garmin did a great job at keeping it simple. The 750 seems like a really powerful device not only in the UI and features but in the ability to optionally interface and integrate other devices.

 

[jredner]

1) May be different since my AP is an STEC. The Aspen is capable of driving GPSS. That is the mode it needs to be in to fly a GPS hold (ex. holding pattern). When you flew the approach, you probably are in heading mode on the AP and then hit Nav or Approach (again depends on how your AP functions) to get the AP to fly the GPS signal for the approach. It will fly the navigation signal (I.e. the approach) but not the missed. When you go missed, you switch back to HDG mode and then engage GPSS if it is not so already on the Aspen.

2) The sequence is always to show these when you reach the missed point (0.0 nm). You can hit the "Default Nav" button and they will be available to you there before the missed.

3) Never done it and I doubt it will give you a pictorial view of a hold. You may be able to define the leg with the OBS from the intersection, but I think it may need to be done the old fashion way (drawn on paper to see the hold).

I do have a question in response to this actually...

How do I engage GPSS on the Aspen? I _think_ it normally says GPS1.

The only way I set that that I know about now is to hit the GPS/CDI bottom button on the 750. That toggles the display on the Aspen to track using GPS or my VOR/ILS. The only button I ever hit on the aspen is "baro" for the altimeter setting. What is the difference between GPS1 and GPSS?

 

[LDJones]

Run! Run! And then run faster! That is my only warning to you! Because once you fly behind that combination, you wil never want to go back! I flew IFR for 22 years with dual ILS capable recievers and an ADF. Once I switched over, I never knew what I was missing -- except all the money in my bank account!

Sweet setup!

 

[rmlewisjr]

Run! Run! And then run faster! That is my only warning to you! Because once you fly behind that combination, you wil never want to go back! I flew IFR for 22 years with dual ILS capable recievers and an ADF. Once I switched over, I never knew what I was missing -- except all the money in my bank account!

It's like cheeting, I've got the GTN650, STec 50 with the GNSS module. Much easier for single pilot IFR operations. (I still hand fly it once and a while to prove that I can. )

 

[chartbundle]

How do I engage GPSS on the Aspen? I _think_ it normally says GPS1.

Based on your picture it looks like your GPSS softkey is the second from the bottom on the right. I'll also add that the nav source won't change, it's still GPS1, your A/P will need to be in heading mode though.

 

[Marauder]

I do have a question in response to this actually...

How do I engage GPSS on the Aspen? I _think_ it normally says GPS1.

The only way I set that that I know about now is to hit the GPS/CDI bottom button on the 750. That toggles the display on the Aspen to track using GPS or my VOR/ILS. The only button I ever hit on the aspen is "baro" for the altimeter setting. What is the difference between GPS1 and GPSS?

GPS1 is the nav signal. It is the center Button on the navigation selection keys at the bottom of the unit.

The buttons on either side of the center button are used to select secondary and tertiary sources for the two additional RMIs that you can have displayed. The center button is the only button to be used to select the navigation signal for the autopilot. As well for the HSI.

The GPSS button is the second button up from the bottom on the right-hand side. It needs to be green in order to activate it. And as was pointed out from another person, you will need to be in heading mode.

 

[Marauder]

Sweet setup!

Thanks!

 

[Marauder]

It's like cheeting, I've got the GTN650, STec 50 with the GNSS module. Much easier for single pilot IFR operations. (I still hand fly it once and a while to prove that I can. )

Pretty amazing isn't it? I really had no idea how advanced this technology has become. I would've made the investment bit sooner.

I agree about the need to hand fly periodically. It's really is so amazing to watch the autopilot in the GPSS function together though.

 

[dell30rb]

Just curious, how do you get a glideslope on an ILS or RNAV approach? Obviously you can just follow the FD but does a GS show up on the projected HSI ?

 

[tmyers]

Run! Run! And then run faster! That is my only warning to you! Because once you fly behind that combination, you wil never want to go back! I flew IFR for 22 years with dual ILS capable recievers and an ADF. Once I switched over, I never knew what I was missing -- except all the money in my bank account!

Well if I put that combination in my airplane I won't have to go back.

 

[Marauder]

Just curious, how do you get a glideslope on an ILS or RNAV approach? Obviously you can just follow the FD but does a GS show up on the projected HSI ?

Sorry for the delay, thought a picture would be helpful. When flying any type of precision approach, you will get a set of indicators for the glideslope and localizer right on the attitude indicator. Like this:

Just to point out a few more features on this picture. On the lower left, the signal for the precision approach is shown. In this case, it is ILS2 or the ILS signal from your second Nav source. In my case, I have a GTN 650 as primary to fly LPV or VOR/ILS approaches. My second radio is a Narco Mark 12D+ and it is capable of an ILS approach. If I select this radio as my primary Nav source, I would get the ILS2 indication like this picture.

You can also set your DA on the AI as well. It will trigger a Sonalert to let you know when you reached it. While this is happening all on the AI, the HSI is showing the loc signal and the map underneath will show my course line and airport. I have a second Aspen 1000 and I use it for situational awareness when setting up for the approach and then I switch it over to the geo charts to track my progress on the approach plate.

 

[Marauder]

Well if I put that combination in my airplane I won't have to go back.

LOL! After I finished paying the bill, the only going back I was afraid to do was to go back to the wife and explain how I managed to put that much money in my airplane.

If you go down this path, I know a lot of guys struggle with whether to get the 750 or the 650. I was ready to go with the 750 and then found out that I would have needed to put in a separate CDI since my old one would not work. That led me to the Aspen PFD which then led me to the Aspen MFD and a decision to go with the 650.

I have found that with this combination, the only time I a working with the 650 is to change frequencies or to modify the flight plan. The rest of the time I am looking at the Aspens to get all of my information. With Aspen's ability to interface ADS-B uploads for traffic and weather, there is no reason to have the bigger display on the GPS -- it's all there on the MFD.

That said, if I was limited in funding, I would have gone with the 750 and separate CDI.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Not a pro at the GTN750, however on the Aspen you will probably have to fly the approach in APR mode on the KAP140. Once on the missed approach, select HDG mode on the KAP 140 and GPSS on the Aspen to get GPS roll steering commands for the hold. This was the case in the Conquest I used to fly.

 

[tmyers]

LOL! After I finished paying the bill, the only going back I was afraid to do was to go back to the wife and explain how I managed to put that much money in my airplane.

If you go down this path, I know a lot of guys struggle with whether to get the 750 or the 650. I was ready to go with the 750 and then found out that I would have needed to put in a separate CDI since my old one would not work. That led me to the Aspen PFD which then led me to the Aspen MFD and a decision to go with the 650.

I have found that with this combination, the only time I a working with the 650 is to change frequencies or to modify the flight plan. The rest of the time I am looking at the Aspens to get all of my information. With Aspen's ability to interface ADS-B uploads for traffic and weather, there is no reason to have the bigger display on the GPS -- it's all there on the MFD.

That said, if I was limited in funding, I would have gone with the 750 and separate CDI.

After playing with the simulator I came up with that same thought. Most of what I really need will be on the Aspen so why spend the extra $4k on the 750

 

[LDJones]

LOL! After I finished paying the bill, the only going back I was afraid to do was to go back to the wife and explain how I managed to put that much money in my airplane.

If you go down this path, I know a lot of guys struggle with whether to get the 750 or the 650. I was ready to go with the 750 and then found out that I would have needed to put in a separate CDI since my old one would not work. That led me to the Aspen PFD which then led me to the Aspen MFD and a decision to go with the 650.

I have found that with this combination, the only time I a working with the 650 is to change frequencies or to modify the flight plan. The rest of the time I am looking at the Aspens to get all of my information. With Aspen's ability to interface ADS-B uploads for traffic and weather, there is no reason to have the bigger display on the GPS -- it's all there on the MFD.

That said, if I was limited in funding, I would have gone with the 750 and separate CDI.

Are there separate Jepp subs for both the 650 and the Aspens?

 

[Marauder]

The only one legally required is the Nav data for the 650. The base, terrain, obstacle and safe taxi updates for the 650 are optional and can be bought as part of a PilotPak from Jepp or Garmin with the Nav data. If you use dual SDs and buy the complete data sets like I do, Jepp buys the optional databases from Garmin and will not put a second copy on JSUM. This means your 56 day cycles (obstacles, safe taxi) will not match the Nav 28 day cycles. Garmin allows for multiple copies and you can update multiple SDs. I think it is a licensing thing.

The Aspen MFD can be updated for Nav, terrain, obstacle and charts. Jepp is the only provider for this data. Seattle Avionics has the chart data. Again, I buy the complete set for the MFD. The Aspen PFD does not need to be updated unless you have the synthetic vision. Then both the PFD/MFD need to be updated.

 

[jredner]

Thanks everyone. I have some things to try now.

I'll post back with what worked. Probably won't be until late this month when I can fly next.


Cheers,

Jordan

 

[jredner]

It worked! Key was simple and to just hit the GPSS button on the aspen and make sure AP is in HDG mode as some of you mentioned. I was able to fly a PT and a miss today no problem using GPS steering mode. Pretty cool. Thanks all.

 

[Marauder]

It worked! Key was simple and to just hit the GPSS button on the aspen and make sure AP is in HDG mode as some of you mentioned. I was able to fly a PT and a miss today no problem using GPS steering mode. Pretty cool. Thanks all.

Great to hear! I'm sure you noticed when hand flying a hold pattern, the GPS will tell you entry to fly to get into the hold. Pretty cool as well. When you fly an approach with the King AP using say an ILS, what mode does the AP need to be in? I suspect it is different for the various manufacturers.

 

[Turningfinal]

Great to hear! I'm sure you noticed when hand flying a hold pattern, the GPS will tell you entry to fly to get into the hold. Pretty cool as well. When you fly an approach with the King AP using say an ILS, what mode does the AP need to be in? I suspect it is different for the various manufacturers.

APR mode.

 

[Marauder]

APR mode.

Thanks. Was just curious since my experience has been exclusively with the STEC series.

 

[jredner]

Hi,

I have a follow-up question to ask incase anyone knows...

Is there a way to program/enter a published (or otherwise any) hold on the 750. Not just a procedure turn hold as part of an approach or miss, but a published hold that isn't part of an approach or a miss.


thanks in advance again!


Jordan

 

[John Collins]

Hi,

I have a follow-up question to ask incase anyone knows...

Is there a way to program/enter a published (or otherwise any) hold on the 750. Not just a procedure turn hold as part of an approach or miss, but a published hold that isn't part of an approach or a miss.


thanks in advance again!


Jordan

The GTN series don't have a means for selecting a random hold. The GNS480 has that capability, but is the only GA GPS navigator that has it. I would use OBS mode to fly a hold that wasn't part of an approach procedure. You would have to use heading mode on the entry and the racetrack and GPSS on the inbound course.

 

[Lucky]

The GTN series don't have a means for selecting a random hold. The GNS480 has that capability, but is the only GA GPS navigator that has it.

Not quite true. The Citation C525 series have Proline21's that can do this very well.

 

[John Collins]

Not quite true. The Citation C525 series have Proline21's that can do this very well.

I meant to to limit this to the piston class stuff, single engine, where the pilot is the owner operator and pays all the bills verses turbine stuff where most of the pilots (not all) are paid to do the flying.

 

[Lucky]

I meant to to limit this to the piston class stuff, single engine, where the pilot is the owner operator and pays all the bills verses turbine stuff where most of the pilots (not all) are paid to do the flying.

No problem. You said "GA" and that is what I responded to. BTW, there are plenty of C525 pilots that are owner/operators.

 

[aterpster]

Not quite true. The Citation C525 series have Proline21's that can do this very well.

As do the Garmin 2000 and 5000.

 

[rmlewisjr]

Hi,

I have a follow-up question to ask incase anyone knows...

Is there a way to program/enter a published (or otherwise any) hold on the 750. Not just a procedure turn hold as part of an approach or miss, but a published hold that isn't part of an approach or a miss.


thanks in advance again!


Jordan

I talked to the Garmin engineers a few months ago and they told me that they have the code to implement this but it had not made it to the top of the upgrade list.

 

[Lucky]

I talked to the Garmin engineers a few months ago and they told me that they have the code to implement this but it had not made it to the top of the upgrade list.

That's exactly what I was told 3 years ago for the G1000. Hopefully, since the GTN 750 is "new", they will actually do what they promise.

 

[aterpster]

I talked to the Garmin engineers a few months ago and they told me that they have the code to implement this but it had not made it to the top of the upgrade list.

Likely a firmware update. That is no easy matter. They need to fix the LNAV+V issue too.

 

[John Collins]

Likely a firmware update. That is no easy matter. They need to fix the LNAV+V issue too.

What LNAV+V issue?

 

[aterpster]

What LNAV+V issue?

On LNAV only RNAV IAPs there is no advisory vertical path (+V) if the FAF is more than 6.94 n.m. from the runway threshold. They misapplied the TSO. When they realized it they issued a bulletin and also had Jepp stop coding +V paths on such IAPs.