Grumman AA1B-5B Prices

[BillTIZ]

A couple of weeks ago I saw an AA-1A in Vegas with 1900 SNEW/TTAF (original engine from the factory).

If its an AA-1A with 1900 hrs on the original engine, then I would expect that the engine is shot. I would want a closer inspection of the engine logbooks and the engine. A many many years old engine with so relatively few hours for the years is long overdue. I would expect to find internal rust causing additional damage.

 

[zaitcev]

By the way, I, too, looked at airplanes in the cheapest range (below $27k) and basically it comes down to:

Cessna 150
Piper PA-38 Tomahawk
Grumman AA-1x
Beech B19
Piper PA-22 TriPacer (or Colt)

That's basically it, with some oddballs (like Skipper, Commander) and a bunch of 1946 taildraggers in the mix. Some of RANS S-6, Cherokees, and 172s dip into the range from above. What's interesting is how Mouse is discounted. Why? Not all of those cheap deals are IO-346 powered. The answer probably becomes obvious at the annual time.

 

[weilke]

A single comm radio with no nav isn't even average for VFR. Pretty much every AA-1x left the factory with at least one nav/comm.

So you would consider an AA-1 with a 170B and a wiggely 80s vintage Collins head to be better equipped than this one ?

Anything's possible, but an engine with 2250 since new, no overhaul, and the flying spread out over more than 35 years has to be suspect, and the odds of running it past 3000 hours before it needs an overhaul are extremely slim.

And the plane is priced accordingly.

There are some really ratty AA-s out there, this one doesn't seem to be one of them.

 

[LJS1993]

Man gentlemen I'm into old muscle cars and thought making purchases on those older vehicles was interesting but obviously plane purchases are very complex. I'm just trying to get myself educated about airplanes, their systems, engines, prices, etc....I absolutely love the "look" of the AA-1 and AA-5's and dream about someday owning one. Of course that is merely a dream since I'm don't even have a PPL. But the way I see it there is nothing wrong with doing your homework right? I definitely appreciate your group input.

 

[kyleb]

If its an AA-1A with 1900 hrs on the original engine, then I would expect that the engine is shot.

This. If the price is appropriate for an airplane with a runout engine, maybe you buy the airplane. But you've gotta have the ~$15k in your pocket for the day the engine tells you it is done. Maybe you're lucky and the engine goes another 1,000 hours. Maybe the next oil analysis tells you to ground it. Either way, be prepared.

 

[poadeleted20]

You best read the page it tells what the FAA believes it is.

You'd best read that whole document carefully. Use of the term "top overhaul" carries no regulatory weight -- zip, nada, nil. Anyone can use that term any way they want, and neither you nor the FAA can infer even a minimum level of what was done without reading all the maintenance records for the work.

 

[poadeleted20]

Lets reverse the question you asked, How can you say that with out inspecting the engine.

Easy -- I didn't say the engine was definitely trash, just that given the information available, the odds against it being in shape for another 800 hours like alfadog said are extremely poor. I'll stand by that -- just like I'd stand by saying the odds of rolling snake-eyes on one throw of the dice are extremely long, like 36:1. Sure, you might get lucky, but the odds are strongly against it.

 

[poadeleted20]

So you would consider an AA-1 with a 170B and a wiggely 80s vintage Collins head to be better equipped than this one ?

Apples vs oranges.

And the plane is priced accordingly.

I agree, but I also thing the purchaser should be prepared to pay for an engine overhaul pretty much on delivery, and make the purchase decision accordingly.

There are some really ratty AA-s out there, this one doesn't seem to be one of them.

I agree -- engines are easy to fix (all it takes is money); airframes are not.

 

[weilke]

I absolutely love the "look" of the AA-1 and AA-5's and dream about someday owning one. Of course that is merely a dream since I'm don't even have a PPL.

Having a PPL is not a requirement for owning an aircraft. If you have access to a skinny independent instructor, purchasing an AA to get your license in may be a very worthwhile way of going about it. There is a mogas STC available. Once you have the plane and insurance, a jerry can of premium from the trunk of your car is all you need for an hour of flight. You probably won't find a cheaper way to go flying than that.

 

[rainsux]

> Maybe something nice for the right price and fly it as is.

That engine owes the owner precisely zero. If you proceed toward purchase,
have the reserves ready to replace it; hopefully, not soon.

Frankly; I'd be giving that engine a very careful exam:

- Compression test per FACTORY methods, not A&P's favorite shortcut.
- Borescope all the cylinders
- Pull a pushrod tube or two and take a peek at the cam.
- Oil analysis

 

[alfadog]

Easy -- I didn't say the engine was definitely trash, just that given the information available, the odds against it being in shape for another 800 hours like alfadog said are extremely poor. I'll stand by that -- just like I'd stand by saying the odds of rolling snake-eyes on one throw of the dice are extremely long, like 36:1. Sure, you might get lucky, but the odds are strongly against it.

While you have that dictionary out look up "straw man argument". LOL. I never said 800 hours or anything close to that.

You folks with money in the bank forget that not everyone is in that boat. If someone has less than $20k to buy an airplane, they are going to be taking a chance no matter what they buy and they are not going to be ready to pay for an engine right off that bat. My money is already in my Arrow but if it wasn't and this airplane fit my mission (it doesn't) then with the caveats mentioned, I would take the risk without being prepared to immediately replace the engine. But that is me.

 

[DaleB]

You folks with money in the bank forget that not everyone is in that boat. If someone has less than $20k to buy an airplane, they are going to be taking a chance no matter what they buy and they are not going to be ready to pay for an engine right off that bat. My money is already in my Arrow but if it wasn't and this airplane fit my mission (it doesn't) then with the caveats mentioned, I would take the risk without being prepared to immediately replace the engine. But that is me.

Like I said, if you get it for the right price, even getting a couple hundred hours out of it before the engine goes west it can make for some pretty cheap flying. On the other hand, yeah, it could implode tomorrow. It's a risk you take with any airplane, it's just nowhere near as big a financial risk with a sub-$18K airplane.

Buy $35K airplane, engine dies, get a rebuild or write off $25K.
Buy $17K airplane, engine dies, get a rebuild or write off $10K.

One of these is less painful than the other, if you're not in a position to write big checks and laugh it off.

 

[alfadog]

Like I said, if you get it for the right price, even getting a couple hundred hours out of it before the engine goes west it can make for some pretty cheap flying. On the other hand, yeah, it could implode tomorrow. It's a risk you take with any airplane, it's just nowhere near as big a financial risk with a sub-$18K airplane.

Buy $35K airplane, engine dies, get a rebuild or write off $25K.
Buy $17K airplane, engine dies, get a rebuild or write off $10K.

One of these is less painful than the other, if you're not in a position to write big checks and laugh it off.

You are buying priced on a run-out engine. If it fails and you cannot afford to rebuild then how much are you out, assuming you can sell for a fair price? The price of the core, at the most? Assuming it is even so far gone that the core is bad?

 

[Tom-D]

You'd best read that whole document carefully. Use of the term "top overhaul" carries no regulatory weight -- zip, nada, nil. Anyone can use that term any way they want, and neither you nor the FAA can infer even a minimum level of what was done without reading all the maintenance records for the work.

The whole document? get real. The FAA wrote that Handbook and every A&P is expected to use it.

And the FAA put page 2 chapter 10 there for a reason. That is the official definition of a top overhaul. and is not required to be a regulation to be enforceable same as the definition of Airworthiness is not a regulation either, but it is enforceable.

When you get your A&P-IA you can tell us what the IA training says about Top Overhauls and how to sign them off. but until then I'd suggest you stick with what is written in the Handbook for A&Ps.

 

[DaleB]

You are buying priced on a run-out engine. If it fails and you cannot afford to rebuild then how much are you out, assuming you can sell for a fair price? The price of the core, at the most? Assuming it is even so far gone that the core is bad?

If you started out with a cheap airplane with an engine at or beyond TBO, you're not out much. If you bought something with a mid-time engine and it croaks tomorrow, you're out a whole lot more.

Which is the safer bet -- I can get another 200-300 hours out of a 2250 hour engine with an 800-hour top end, or I can get another thousand hours out of a 1200 hour engine? I dunno. But either one can fail tomorrow, and one's going to be a lot less of a hit if I can't write the check to rebuild or replace it.

I'm not advocating buying airplanes with run-out engines. What I am saying is that I'm on a limited budget (relatively speaking of course -- "limited budget" in an airplane buying setting is still pretty well), I wouldn't be afraid to buy an airplane with an engine at or a little beyond TBO, IF it shows no signs of impending doom, and IF the airplane is priced accordingly. I also wouldn't make any big plans to hang onto it as my long term cross-country dream machine, either... it's a trainer, train in it and sell it to the next guy who wants to take a chance on a high time engine. Ideally, sell it before it starts making odd noises and dripping oil. The little guy in the ad doesn't look to me like it's a bad deal, if it looks to be flyable and the engine is in reasonably good shape. You've only got to wring another couple hundred hours out of it to get your money's worth.

 

[Tom-D]

Remember everybody flys a used engine. Searching the internet I see the highest price for a 0-235 as $11,500 Rebuilt with out core. Lowest I see is a 1200 hour guaranteed to be airworthy at $4500

Who in their right mind would pay 24k for any engine for a 15k aircraft. When the high market for the whole thing is 25k.

What insurance company will give you hull coverage for a 25k aircraft at $35-40k

 

[LJS1993]

Having a PPL is not a requirement for owning an aircraft. If you have access to a skinny independent instructor, purchasing an AA to get your license in may be a very worthwhile way of going about it. There is a mogas STC available. Once you have the plane and insurance, a jerry can of premium from the trunk of your car is all you need for an hour of flight. You probably won't find a cheaper way to go flying than that.

That is a very interesting idea. It might be very cool learning on an aircraft I absolutely love. Are independent instructors fairly common?

 

[alfadog]

That is a very interesting idea. It might be very cool learning on an aircraft I absolutely love. Are independent instructors fairly common?

Dime a dozen in my neck of the sand.

 

[Tom-D]

That is a very interesting idea. It might be very cool learning on an aircraft I absolutely love. Are independent instructors fairly common?

That little aircraft is very capable of getting your PPL, and if you love it as many do, it will be worth upgrading to what you will require later.

But a word of caution, these are not heavy haulers, you load them up with equipment, and you will pay a penalty in the baggage compartment.

My suggestion would be buy it, fly it as is, get your PPL. the radio it has is a good one SL40, modern solid state, and when you are ready to pursue your Instrument rating pull the hand held Garmin 196 out of the docking station and add a certifiable GPS.

and remember you can repair that engine as many times as you like there is no requirement to overhaul it .... EVER..

 

[weilke]

That is a very interesting idea. It might be very cool learning on an aircraft I absolutely love. Are independent instructors fairly common?

Go to the airport, look at some FBO bulletin boards, typically you will find a couple of business cards pinned there.

There are pros and cons to going that route.

++++
- plane is (assuming a good mechanical condition) allways available, you only have to schedule the instructor.
- it is YOUR plane. You know who flew it last, your charts and pencils are right where you left them, you wont find the trim cranked all nose down and the alternator switch off when you taxi out.
- the ability to lie to yourself that 'it isn't really that expensive' :wink2: . Once you spent the money in big chunks (purchase, annual inspection, insurance bill), individual flight lessons are only little chunks. As each incremental hour only costs you $25 in fuel out of pocket, you will fly a lot more solo than if you have to swipe the card to the tune of $200 after every flight.

-----
- you are the one who has to write the checks.
The regular and expected ones (tiedown $50-200/month), insurance ($100/month), annual inspection ($1000)
The unexpected ones: A cracked exhaust ($500-$1500), a new tire ($127) or a replacement used engine ($15000 installed ).
If you are mechanically inclined and you have an A&P mechanic willing to work with you, there is a lot of stuff you can learn do as preventative maintenance yourself, but aircraft are heavily regulated and some stuff that may seem trivial (re-tightening an alternator belt) has to be done by someone with the ability to swing the blessed pen).
- it is not some anonymous maintenance lackeys fault if your plane is not ready for a flight lession, it is YOUR fault.
- if you decide that flying is not your thing after all, selling the plane is going to be a painful experience and you are probably going to loose some money on it.


You may or may not save money by doing everything in your own plane. But if you find an instructor interested to work with you on this, you are probably going to be a better pilot with more experience if you learn in your own plane than if you have to pinch the pennies every time you take out a rental. Now, something like an AA-1x is not much of a travel plane once you have the ticket, but it still beats sitting in traffic on the 405 'freeway' (that said, a friend of mine used one to commute a couple of hundred miles accross northern MN and WI on a regular basis).

 

[LJS1993]

That little aircraft is very capable of getting your PPL, and if you love it as many do, it will be worth upgrading to what you will require later.

But a word of caution, these are not heavy haulers, you load them up with equipment, and you will pay a penalty in the baggage compartment.

My suggestion would be buy it, fly it as is, get your PPL. the radio it has is a good one SL40, modern solid state, and when you are ready to pursue your Instrument rating pull the hand held Garmin 196 out of the docking station and add a certifiable GPS.

and remember you can repair that engine as many times as you like there is no requirement to overhaul it .... EVER..

Yea I really love the looks of that aircraft and am the type of person that really gets into something once I really like it. I see myself wanting an aircraft that could take my wife and myself to Arizona for vacations, or possibly to Monterey for some fun. Could this do the job? Or would an AA-5B or your usual Cessna be the better choice?

 

[weilke]

I see myself wanting an aircraft that could take my wife and myself to Arizona for vacations, or possibly to Monterey for some fun. Could this do the job?

Not really.

This is a trainer that goes 100mph and doesn't really like to climb much once it gets warm. Sure, you CAN do that, but a AA-1 is not the first plane that comes to mind to travel accross mountains and desert.

 

[LJS1993]

Go to the airport, look at some FBO bulletin boards, typically you will find a couple of business cards pinned there.

There are pros and cons to going that route.

++++
- plane is (assuming a good mechanical condition) allways available, you only have to schedule the instructor.
- it is YOUR plane. You know who flew it last, your charts and pencils are right where you left them, you wont find the trim cranked all nose down and the alternator switch off when you taxi out.
- the ability to lie to yourself that 'it isn't really that expensive' :wink2: . Once you spent the money in big chunks (purchase, annual inspection, insurance bill), individual flight lessons are only little chunks. As each incremental hour only costs you $25 in fuel out of pocket, you will fly a lot more solo than if you have to swipe the card to the tune of $200 after every flight.

-----
- you are the one who has to write the checks.
The regular and expected ones (tiedown $50-200/month), insurance ($100/month), annual inspection ($1000)
The unexpected ones: A cracked exhaust ($500-$1500), a new tire ($127) or a replacement used engine ($15000 installed ).
If you are mechanically inclined and you have an A&P mechanic willing to work with you, there is a lot of stuff you can learn do as preventative maintenance yourself, but aircraft are heavily regulated and some stuff that may seem trivial (re-tightening an alternator belt) has to be done by someone with the ability to swing the blessed pen).
- it is not some anonymous maintenance lackeys fault if your plane is not ready for a flight lession, it is YOUR fault.
- if you decide that flying is not your thing after all, selling the plane is going to be a painful experience and you are probably going to loose some money on it.


You may or may not save money by doing everything in your own plane. But if you find an instructor interested to work with you on this, you are probably going to be a better pilot with more experience if you learn in your own plane than if you have to pinch the pennies every time you take out a rental. Now, something like an AA-1x is not much of a travel plane once you have the ticket, but it still beats sitting in traffic on the 405 'freeway' (that said, a friend of mine used one to commute a couple of hundred miles accross northern MN and WI on a regular basis).

Thanks for the input. You pretty much laid it out there. In bold is what I'm always thinking of whenever I set a goal. If perhaps flying isn't my thing or it just doesn't work out then I would be in some debt with ownership. Did you go the usual route of renting then possibly ownership?

 

[Tom-D]

Yea I really love the looks of that aircraft and am the type of person that really gets into something once I really like it. I see myself wanting an aircraft that could take my wife and myself to Arizona for vacations, or possibly to Monterey for some fun. Could this do the job?

Whoa,, Whoa wait, let's back this bus up.

We were talking about getting your PPL.

There are a lot of things about wives and cross countries that you must learn. How you get your wife to pack. Mine never did understand gross weight limits, but in a Grumman AA1 series you will learn that pretty quick. These are not a station wagon, or a camper, they were not conceived as a cross country aircraft, that said they will do the trip, but with limits on how much you carry, and how far you go per leg.

this aircraft in question was designed as a primary trainer to compete for the flight school bucks, not as a family transportation.

 

[alfadog]

Thanks for the input. You pretty much laid it out there. In bold is what I'm always thinking of whenever I set a goal. If perhaps flying isn't my thing or it just doesn't work out then I would be in some debt with ownership. Did you go the usual route of renting then possibly ownership?

Unless you have more money than you know what to do with, you should not buy an airplane before you are sure that flying is your thing, at least for the foreseeable future. So if the bug has not bit you then wait. And rent.

 

[LJS1993]

Whoa,, Whoa wait, let's back this bus up.

We were talking about getting your PPL.

There are a lot of things about wives and cross countries that you must learn. How you get your wife to pack. Mine never did understand gross weight limits, but in a Grumman AA1 series you will learn that pretty quick. These are not a station wagon, or a camper, they were not conceived as a cross country aircraft, that said they will do the trip, but with limits on how much you carry, and how far you go per leg.

this aircraft in question was designed as a primary trainer to compete for the flight school bucks, not as a family transportation.

Thanks man that's why I'm asking you guys for good input. Would the AA5 series fit the bill or am I going to have to look for something heavier like a 172?

 

[Tom-D]

Thanks for the input. You pretty much laid it out there. In bold is what I'm always thinking of whenever I set a goal. If perhaps flying isn't my thing or it just doesn't work out then I would be in some debt with ownership. Did you go the usual route of renting then possibly ownership?

What's your closest airport?

 

[Tom-D]

Thanks man that's why I'm asking you guys for good input. Would the AA5 series fit the bill or am I going to have to look for something heavier like a 172?

My best in put would be, concentrate on one rung of this ladder at a time, get your PPL.

This little aircraft will do that.

and later when you are better informed make the decision to move up or not.

 

[weilke]

Thanks for the input. You pretty much laid it out there. In bold is what I'm always thinking of whenever I set a goal. If perhaps flying isn't my thing or it just doesn't work out then I would be in some debt with ownership. Did you go the usual route of renting then possibly ownership?

I rented. Wish I had bought.

Otoh I watched my secretaries husband go the 'train in your own plane' route. He was in his 60s and had a 150 that he bought for very little money. 1 radio, no transponder and I am not sure he ever bothered to check in what decade the engine was 'overhauled' 'topped' or 'bottomed'. He had an instructor who got him to his license and a mechanic who supervised his maintenance work (he was a farmer/welder/ag-mechanic/well-driller/countysnowplowdriver kind of guy). The plane was parked in the backyard of his neighbors house and he flew out of the neighbors unmapped 3000ft 'linear hayfield'. Once he had the certificate him and his wife travelled around in the little plane whenever they found time. Sadly he passed away after a brief battle with cancer and his wife, while motivated to keep flying, had some medical issues that kept her from picking up where he left off.

 

[DaleB]

Thanks man that's why I'm asking you guys for good input. Would the AA5 series fit the bill or am I going to have to look for something heavier like a 172?

I don't know that I'd call a 172 a cross country airplane either. I finally coaxed SWMBO into the right seat of one this evening. Her response was, "And you think I could spend HOW LONG in this claustrophobic little thing??" I didn't even bother trying to show her a Cherokee. I've seen a couple of Grummans on the ramp, but have not seen any owners around to get a good look at/in them, so I don't know how they compare. Trainers like this are NOT speed demons. They'll be faster than driving, but I think a long trip is still going to feel like a long trip.

You might look around and see if there's a flying club you could join. It can be kind of halfway between renting and buying. BY that I mean that when you rent from a school or FBO, you don't see any of the actual costs to own & operate the plane -- just your rental cost. In a club or partnership you can see ALL of the expenses, and people may take a little better care of the equipment since they're on the hook for repairs.

 

[LJS1993]

What's your closest airport?

The closest airport is actually just about five miles away. I may be heading for an intro ride just to check it out and get a feel for flying soon. However financially I am a year or two away from dedicating myself to learning. One rung at a time indeed.

 

[Skylane81E]

And that is why I said read my other posts in this thread. Are you telling me that an engine that has good compression, not making metal, checked over and gven a clean bill of health by a competent mechanic, would not be a good bet to soldier on for 200 - 300 or even 400 hours more with maybe no more than a top overhaul?

You are right, I am new to this airplane game but I have been rebuilding engines since I was maybe 14 years old (Honda 50 at 14, 1st car engine AH 100-4 at 15) so I don't buy that this doesn't "look like" (appear at first view to be) what I said it appeared to be. Maybe something nice for the right price and fly it as is.

I'll tell ya that an engine with good compression, clean oil, not making metal can be dead on the table 50 hours later. We just had it happen. Given the scant operation if the engine in question that plane runs an above average chance of having that happen.

Many will also tell ya that spending money on an engine past TBO may be throwing good money after bad. You get to 2500 hrs and then top the engine for 10k. 100hrs later the power drops because the cam is shot. Pull it apart and spend another 10k+ because yu need a cam, bearings gasket set...

And you still have 2600 TSMO.

Could be a fine plane, but I'd treat any plane i bought with an engine near or over TBO as if every hour it gave me was a gift. The bonus is when you do the major you know how it was run from hour 0.

 

[weilke]

The closest airport is actually just about five miles away. I may be heading for an intro ride just to check it out and get a feel for flying soon. However financially I am a year or two away from dedicating myself to learning. One rung at a time indeed.

No smoking, eating out or vacations for 2 years and a little trainer plane and your certificate should be within reach.

 

[alfadog]

For myself, I will let an expert on GA engine maintenance have the last word on the subject of flying past TBO. I will say that, unlike some advice here (not all), his advice matches what I have learned in 40 years of working on engines of every stripe except aviation; outboard, inboard, car, truck, heavy equipment, motorcycle, two-stroke, four-stroke, diesel, gas. Both as a profession and as a hobby. Heck, I even worked at Pratt and Whitney's research facility in WPB for two years (metallurgical research lab tech) but that hardly qualifies me for anything, though I did break lots of stuff and breaking stuff is always fun.

The Savvy Aviator #4: Debunking TBO
Engine TBO (time between overhauls) seems to be one of the most misunderstood concepts in aviation maintenance. There are lots of TBO-related old wives tales that are widely believed by owners and mechanic alike, and they can cost owners a great deal of money. Mike Busch endeavors to clear up these misconceptions, and explain what TBO really means.

... (Read the entire column, it is worth the read.)

"This time around, I'm not even the slightest bit nervous about continuing to fly past TBO. I know that so long as I continue to keep a watchful eye on compression, oil consumption, oil filter inspection, oil analysis, temperatures and performance, I'll know when the engines are getting tired and it's time to overhaul them. That could be next year, or it might be five years from now. I'm not even going to try to predict how much more useful life those engines have left, but when the time comes to major them, they'll tell me. "

 

[Anthony]

The AA1x is a great trainer, and around the patch/local flyer. They are really fun to fly also. However, people do use them for trips, and even in hot, high environments although you have to plan accordingly with weight, and not do stupid stuff.

There are certainly better choices for travelling machines, but for cheap flying, as long as everything continues to work, something like this is the ticket.

 

[Skylane81E]

For myself, I will let an expert on GA engine maintenance have the last word on the subject of flying past TBO. I will say that, unlike some advice here (not all), his advice matches what I have learned in 40 years of working on engines of every stripe except aviation; outboard, inboard, car, truck, heavy equipment, motorcycle, two-stroke, four-stroke, diesel, gas. Both as a profession and as a hobby. Heck, I even worked at Pratt and Whitney's research facility in WPB for two years (metallurgical research lab tech) but that hardly qualifies me for anything, though I did break lots of stuff and breaking stuff is always fun.

The Savvy Aviator #4: Debunking TBO
Engine TBO (time between overhauls) seems to be one of the most misunderstood concepts in aviation maintenance. There are lots of TBO-related old wives tales that are widely believed by owners and mechanic alike, and they can cost owners a great deal of money. Mike Busch endeavors to clear up these misconceptions, and explain what TBO really means.

... (Read the entire column, it is worth the read.)

"This time around, I'm not even the slightest bit nervous about continuing to fly past TBO. I know that so long as I continue to keep a watchful eye on compression, oil consumption, oil filter inspection, oil analysis, temperatures and performance, I'll know when the engines are getting tired and it's time to overhaul them. That could be next year, or it might be five years from now. I'm not even going to try to predict how much more useful life those engines have left, but when the time comes to major them, they'll tell me. "

Mike speaks the truth. I'd only add that you won't always get any warning and can go from a clean bill of health to bits of the cam lobes in the filter in one oil change. That is why he listens to the engines, they usually will tell you when their health is in decline before they stop working entirely. Better to find out during routine maintenance than at 5000ft!

 

[LJS1993]

No smoking, eating out or vacations for 2 years and a little trainer plane and your certificate should be within reach.

Yes those are my plans exactly.

 

[dell30rb]

Remember everybody flys a used engine. Searching the internet I see the highest price for a 0-235 as $11,500 Rebuilt with out core. Lowest I see is a 1200 hour guaranteed to be airworthy at $4500

Who in their right mind would pay 24k for any engine for a 15k aircraft. When the high market for the whole thing is 25k.

What insurance company will give you hull coverage for a 25k aircraft at $35-40k

I was thinking the same thing. A savvy owner can get a decent engine in there for under 10k. 24k might be the price for a factory overhauled, "zero time" engine with everything done by the shop.

 

[dell30rb]

For a plane like this, any idea what it would cost to put in a used Nav/COM w GS and possibly a used ADF?

 

[alfadog]

For a plane like this, any idea what it would cost to put in a used Nav/COM w GS and possibly a used ADF?

Prolly only about 50% of what it would cost to install a used 430W. The difference being that you leave half on the table at resale time with the 430W and all the money is lost with the dated avionics (no increase in resale value). In other words, resale value picks up the difference between the two 'approaches" (yuk yuk).

IMO. Everything I write is IMO. That should be obvious but I guess it is not.

edit: numbers? $5k vs $10k.