Grumman AA1 pilots

[PilotRPI]

So I'm considering a grumman as one of my purchase options. Everyone I know that has owned one has absolutely loved it. A couple of questions:

Any chance of fitting two folding bikes in the back?

What type of range do you have with the plane with an O-235? How many gallons usable? I heard it can be short on gas with an O-320 upgrade, but how about stock?

Thanks!

 

[Grum.Man]

I fly a 71 AA1. I have never seen a folding bike in person but I know a lot of RV guys that fit them in their RV6/7 so I feel like it should be fine in the AA1. Since you mentioned two bikes I am assuming you are hauling two people. Unless the two of you are really small people I don't see an AA1 hauling two people and two bikes and enough fuel to make more than a few laps around the pattern.

The AA1 has 22 gallons useable. I figure 2-2.5 hours max as my comfort zone at 75%. If I had a digital fuel flow gauge I would possibly do more but probably not. Pull it back to 60% or so and you could push it to 3. I rather stop more often than run out.

 

[Grum.Man]

For what it's worth my airplane is not what I would call aerodynamically clean. It needs paint, probably isn't rigged the best, and has the large main tires. The engine is fresh and it has the cruise prop. I see about 750 fpm full fuel and my 190lb body on an average day and cruise at around 109 kts at 4,500 ft.

 

[James331]

Not sure, there is a bi of space in the back and the sliding canopy would help with loading, I'd say ya gotta try before you buy.

I do know you can fit longboards or sport parachutes in the back :wink2:

Great little planes.

 

[Ventucky Red]

FWIIW I have my eye out for one with a 150 HP engine...

 

[Grum.Man]

For the price of a decent AA1X with the 150 hp engine you can just about get into a AA5 Traveler. Might not be as fast or climb as good, but it can haul more and has more fuel.

 

[bnt83]

Fwiw I fly a 150 horse O320 and it averages 7.5 gallons per hour. Takeoff power indicates between 10 and 12 gallons per hour depending on density altitude. Cruise power settings between 4500 and 5500 feet are anywhere between 6 and 9 depending how fast you want to go or how much weigh is in the airplane.

 

[bnt83]

I flew a 150 horse AA1C and wasn't impressed. I hope it was Either a engine was bad or too much pitch in the prop making it doggie feeling.

 

[docmirror]

Any of the AA1 versions with two folding bikes in back and full fuel would be a single seat plane.

It is an airplane that you absolutely do not want to go over gross, or mess with high DA. You and the bikes might fit, but unless you are anorexic and so is your pax, it's gonna be too much.

 

[dukeblue219]

Any chance you can stretch the budget to $40k and find an AA5-series aircraft, like a Traveler or Cheetah? Two folding bikes and two people would fit very well.

I'm almost certain a (smallish) full-size bike will fit in the back of my Tiger with the back seats folded down.

 

[Silvaire]

Any of the AA1 versions with two folding bikes in back and full fuel would be a single seat plane...

Not to pick on you cowboy but why would one dude want to bring two bikes

 

[docmirror]

Not to pick on you cowboy but why would one dude want to bring two bikes

I don't know what people want to do. He asked about taking two bikes. I told him with two bikes and full fuel it's single seat. Maybe he's a folding bike dealer. Maybe he has an invisible bike-riding giant rabbit named Harvey, maybe he's waxing nostalgic for an ex-Gf who liked to ride bikes, maybe he's carrying two bikes for spare parts, maybe the second bike is for someone he's meeting, maybe he wants to put two bikes, two people and full gas in the plane and take off on a 95F saturday afternoon and kill himself.

Whatev

 

[poadeleted20]

Any chance of fitting two folding bikes in the back?

Not in an AA-1 unless they fold up really, really small. You'd probably run into weight problems, too, unless they're really, really light.

What type of range do you have with the plane with an O-235?

We never flew our AA-1B more than 3 hours VFR or 2.5 hours IFR.

How many gallons usable?

22 usable, and figure 6 gph.

I heard it can be short on gas with an O-320 upgrade,

That's why many of the O-320-engined AA-1x's have the 2x5-gallon aux tanks. However, that extra 60 lb of fuel pretty much turns the plane into a single-seater.

 

[poadeleted20]

For the price of a decent AA1X with the 150 hp engine you can just about get into a AA5 Traveler. Might not be as fast or climb as good, but it can haul more and has more fuel.

I agree 100%. The back seat folds flat giving you a huge cargo area (about 6 feet long) -- plenty of room for two bikes (even non-folding as long as you pull the front wheels). Lots more range, useful load, and payload, too -- much, much better 2-person traveling machine.

 

[Silvaire]

I don't know what people want to do. He asked about taking two bikes. I told him with two bikes and full fuel it's single seat. Maybe he's a folding bike dealer. Maybe he has an invisible bike-riding giant rabbit named Harvey, maybe he's waxing nostalgic for an ex-Gf who liked to ride bikes, maybe he's carrying two bikes for spare parts, maybe the second bike is for someone he's meeting, maybe he wants to put two bikes, two people and full gas in the plane and take off on a 95F saturday afternoon and kill himself.

Whatev

Was just supposed to be a lighthearted joke, probably just didn't come across right.

 

[Henning]

So I'm considering a grumman as one of my purchase options. Everyone I know that has owned one has absolutely loved it. A couple of questions:

Any chance of fitting two folding bikes in the back?

What type of range do you have with the plane with an O-235? How many gallons usable? I heard it can be short on gas with an O-320 upgrade, but how about stock?

Thanks!

The bikes? There are probably a couple of micro bikes you can find that would manage, but not your standard folding bike from what I saw back there. Now the AA-5, you can put 2 standard frame bikes in with the wheels off and back seat folded down.

There are battery powered versions of Razr type scooters now that would easily fit, as would a regular Razr. Once you get over the dork factor of being an adult riding a child's toy below the legal limit of .12 BAC, they really are pretty practical and fun. I like the ones with the bigger wheels.

 

[LuisO]

I don't know what people want to do. He asked about taking two bikes. I told him with two bikes and full fuel it's single seat. Maybe he's a folding bike dealer. Maybe he has an invisible bike-riding giant rabbit named Harvey, maybe he's waxing nostalgic for an ex-Gf who liked to ride bikes, maybe he's carrying two bikes for spare parts, maybe the second bike is for someone he's meeting, maybe he wants to put two bikes, two people and full gas in the plane and take off on a 95F saturday afternoon and kill himself.



Whatev

Funny!

 

[PilotRPI]

I thought it was pretty darn funny too.

It is for me and my wife. We weigh about 270 combined. Two folding bikes are about 55 pounds. Sounds like I may wait and try and find a traveler if I go the grumman route. Lots of cool places to go in New England, and a couple folding bikes really opens up the options.

I still want her to agree to one folding bike, a skateboard, and a tow rope so I can get a Cessna 140, but she insists on the two bikes.

 

[docmirror]

Was just supposed to be a lighthearted joke, probably just didn't come across right.

I shoulda paid more attention to the emoticon.

 

[docmirror]

Move up to the 1975(only) Traveler AA5. It has the newer Cheetah cowl, and the small tail. Plenty of usable load for two, and it's a bit faster. You'll pay a premium, but it's worth it. Joy to fly.

 

[Henning]

I thought it was pretty darn funny too.

It is for me and my wife. We weigh about 270 combined. Two folding bikes are about 55 pounds. Sounds like I may wait and try and find a traveler if I go the grumman route. Lots of cool places to go in New England, and a couple folding bikes really opens up the options.

I still want her to agree to one folding bike, a skateboard, and a tow rope so I can get a Cessna 140, but she insists on the two bikes.

You'll find the AA-5 much more practical and useful. The fold down back seat and open canopy access gives you great options in simply loading even awkward oversize loads. I know a guy who loads up 2 full size bikes (quick release wheels is all) and girlfriend in his Tiger and the do rides all over the place. That's why he bought the plane.

 

[jkaduk]

I agree 100%. The back seat folds flat giving you a huge cargo area (about 6 feet long) -- plenty of room for two bikes (even non-folding as long as you pull the front wheels). Lots more range, useful load, and payload, too -- much, much better 2-person traveling machine.

I remember an article from way back where a guy and his girlfriend went airplane camping with two bikes in the Tiger. Slept in the back with the seats folded down. Used the bikes for ground transportation during the day.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I don't know what people want to do. He asked about taking two bikes. I told him with two bikes and full fuel it's single seat. Maybe he's a folding bike dealer. Maybe he has an invisible bike-riding giant rabbit named Harvey, maybe he's waxing nostalgic for an ex-Gf who liked to ride bikes, maybe he's carrying two bikes for spare parts, maybe the second bike is for someone he's meeting, maybe he wants to put two bikes, two people and full gas in the plane and take off on a 95F saturday afternoon and kill himself.

Whatev

This made my day!

"Maybe he's a folding bike dealer"

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

There are battery powered versions of Razr type scooters now that would easily fit, as would a regular Razr. Once you get over the dork factor of being an adult riding a child's toy below the legal limit of .12 BAC, they really are pretty practical and fun. I like the ones with the bigger wheels.

This is the funniest thread

 

[Henning]

I remember an article from way back where a guy and his girlfriend went airplane camping with two bikes in the Tiger. Slept in the back with the seats folded down. Used the bikes for ground transportation during the day.

They're probably the most popular plane for the bicyclist/pilot demographic because they are hands down the best plane on the market for the mission below cabin class costs. Even a PA-32, A-36, or 206 provides no significant advantage in loading, and the cost value of the A-36s 0r 32-Rs extra speed is something every person has to determine.

The feeling I get from this is the objective is to load 2 people, and 2 bikes, and travel regionaly for the minimum budget to get full effect. For that the AA-5 is the clear choice.

 

[Henning]

This is the funniest thread

When you're near 50 screaming down a hill in some coastal Italian town on a Razor, you get some funny looks, and the occasional set of scrapes and bruises as you crash and burn in front of them.

 

[bluerooster]

I had an AA1. I found it to be very fun to fly. But there's a reason the insurance company required 5 hours dual in it, before they would cover me.
It has short legs, (~2 hours is all I'd do between fuel stops)
It's under powered, (you can get way behind the power curve very quickly)
The stall warning tab is located about 2 feet from the wingtip, So you hear the horn just about the time the stall breaks. (but there are other earlier warning signs)
The only airplane that I've owned, which wouldn't hold altitude in a steep turn with full power, half fuel, and two people on board.
But still, light and responsive on the controls, a blast to fly, and play with, and rather economical to operate.
I dunno, about folding bikes. But They had best be very light in weight, and fold up pretty small as well.
If I get the chance to buy another one for a reasonable price, I'd do it again.

 

[poadeleted20]

It is for me and my wife. We weigh about 270 combined.

That changes a lot of things -- sounds like me and Fran 38 years ago when we bought our AA-1B (we weigh a lot more now, and we now have a Tiger).

Two folding bikes are about 55 pounds.

Then with the 270 pounds of you two, it should work weight-wise, but it won't work space-wise unless they are pretty small, and even if it does, there won't be room for anything else back there.

Sounds like I may wait and try and find a traveler if I go the grumman route.

That might work better in the long run, but given the lightweight people and if the bikes really fit, and you can live with the short legs, it sounds like an AA-1x would work for the short term.

Lots of cool places to go in New England, and a couple folding bikes really opens up the options.

New England is a pretty small place range-wise, so it sounds possible.

 

[poadeleted20]

I remember an article from way back where a guy and his girlfriend went airplane camping with two bikes in the Tiger. Slept in the back with the seats folded down. Used the bikes for ground transportation during the day.

That does work in an AA-5x. Won't even come close to working in an AA-1x.