Great job 421 pilot at Austin today

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
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20,324
Location
west Texas
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Display name:
Dave Taylor
As we pulled up to Trajen, a Golden Eagle was loading up right next to our spot, and soon heading out. We talked to the line guys and escorted our pax, watching all the traffic coming and going, the place was hopping. In a little while we watched the 421 depart.... and noticed he left his gear down. Then, he just didn't climb anymore above about 300'; a very flat departure - all of which we were discussing as it happened. Soon he disappeared around a tall hangar to the left (west) and we lost sight of him. A little while later he taxis in on one: see pics.
What engines are in these? Anyone know if the hydraulic pump is on the left?
(Bill's right, I was in Aus this weekend and the rwys are 17/35...)
 

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Serial Number 421C0629 Type Registration CorporationManufacturer NameCESSNA Certificate Issue Date01/20/2005 Model421C StatusValid Type AircraftFixed Wing Multi-EngineType EngineReciprocating Pending Number ChangeNone DealerNo Date Change AuthorizedNone Mode S Code52323764 MFR YearNone Fractional OwnerNO



Registered Owner

Name H B MANAGEMENT CO LLC Street13111 NORTHWEST FWY STE 310 CityHOUSTON StateTEXAS Zip Code 77040-6311 CountyHARRIS CountryUNITED STATES


Most in this serial number range seem to have CONT MOTOR/GTSI0-520-F-K 435 HorsePower, but it is not shown specifically on this plane.
 
Thats it I guess, a geared TSIO520 so he had enough power at that elevation and weight to carry it around. If it was turbine itd be much less of an issue.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thats it I guess, a geared TSIO520 so he had enough power at that elevation and weight to carry it around. If it was turbine itd be much less of an issue.
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Don't know why he left the gear down, a 421 should be able to raise the gear no matter which engine quits.
 
lancefisher said:
Don't know why he left the gear down, a 421 should be able to raise the gear no matter which engine quits.
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Me neither. Like most all retracts the gear is very draggy. A "flat" departure is about all you're gonna get on one engine; especially if they left the rear out. The 421's have a hydraulic pump on each engine capable of raising the gear. They do work much slower on one pump than on two.

Pics show the prop feathered so he cleaned the engine up.
 
Thanks Alan, I was hoping you would pop in on this.
My guess (are we allowed to speculate on this forum?, I can never remember the individual rules) is a case of forgetting the training in the heat of the moment (this is something that can happen to anyone, and does on a regular basis!) OR he was shooting for 17R, the nearest runway which meant no time to cycle the gear. (it was a 35R departure so 17R was pretty handy)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks Alan, I was hoping you would pop in on this.
My guess (are we allowed to speculate on this forum?, I can never remember the individual rules) is a case of forgetting the training in the heat of the moment (this is something that can happen to anyone, and does on a regular basis!) OR he was shooting for 17R, the nearest runway which meant no time to cycle the gear. (it was a 35R departure so 17R was pretty handy)
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Someone I know lost an engine on a solo takeoff in a Baron last year and made it all the way around the pattern with the gear hanging out albeit below the normal pattern altitude. The reason he left the gear down was that he forgot all about it in the heat of the moment. The reason he made it with all that drag is that by himself he was several hundred pounds below MGW.
 
My bet is on the quick circle to land on 17R; you already told us he disappeared from view behind the hangar (and you were on the ramp at Trajen, right?), meaning he was turning west already, so I think he was in the air *just* long enough to do a long, shallow 180 to 17R where, with over 12,000', he likely cared not at all about landing with the wind. Plus, LE feathered, left turn was simple and safer.

Assuming traffic allowed it (and I bet it did, it's hard to imagine the landing traffic that would not be told to give way for an engine-out aircraft), that would be the by-far-best scenario.


Now, who's gonna track down the pilot and find out what really happened?
 
FWIW, in the sim you cannot maintain glideslope with one engine windmilling, approach flaps, and gear down. IOW, if one engine packs it in after glideslope intercept (normal configuration:gear down, flaps 15) you can't simply give the good engine some throttle, step on the rudder, and drive it on home. You have to clean up something if you're heavy at all. I suppose with a light cabin and light on fuel it may maintain GS. In the sim you don't usually get them light, always hot and heavy...
 
Richard said:
Turbine, don't know which one. They sure are loud though. Screaming eagle.
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No, it's a recip version, the 421 With the GTSIO 520. The turbine is the Conquest, I forget, 441? Same cabin on the 414 as well without the geared engine. The C model had the wet wings and trailing link landing gear. Some of the Cs had a hotter engine as well and quite a few have RAM packages. What I can't figure out is why the gear didn't come up? probably just didn't see it happen. Even the HP mod 421s would have an interesting time making it around on one with the gear hanging. I don't think that one is in the performance book.
 
Henning said:
No, it's a recip version, the 421 With the GTSIO 520. The turbine is the Conquest, I forget, 441? Same cabin on the 414 as well without the geared engine. The C model had the wet wings and trailing link landing gear. Some of the Cs had a hotter engine as well and quite a few have RAM packages. What I can't figure out is why the gear didn't come up? probably just didn't see it happen. Even the HP mod 421s would have an interesting time making it around on one with the gear hanging. I don't think that one is in the performance book.
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Indeed, I was thinking of the Conquest.

As far as the gear left hanging, could this be a pilot error we'll never hear about because the flight terminated in a safe landing? Perhaps the pilot got behind when the engine decided to not go that day. Of course, that's all speculation.
 
Pilawt said:
441 Conquest is a larger airframe (turbine version of the 404 Titan); the 421's turbine equivalent is the 425 Corsair.

-- Pilawt
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Thank you, I always thought the 404 was an unpressurized 421. I only ever came across 1 and briefly so I'm not really informed on them. Hmmm intereting to know, How much bigger is it?
 
Henning said:
Even the HP mod 421s would have an interesting time making it around on one with the gear hanging. I don't think that one is in the performance book.
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No 421 experience, but the 414 has climb performance corrections for gear down and cowl flaps open on the chart.

Fly safe!

David
 
Henning said:
Thank you, I always thought the 404 was an unpressurized 421. I only ever came across 1 and briefly so I'm not really informed on them. Hmmm intereting to know, How much bigger is it?
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Compared to the 421C, the 404 is over three feet longer, over five feet greater wingspan, and 950 pounds more gross weight.

-- Pilawt
 
Pilawt said:
Compared to the 421C, the 404 is over three feet longer, over five feet greater wingspan, and 950 pounds more gross weight.

-- Pilawt
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Ok, sorta the Cessna rival for the Piper Chieftain in that market, streched unpressurized high utility hauler.
 
MauleSkinner said:
No 421 experience, but the 414 has climb performance corrections for gear down and cowl flaps open on the chart.

Fly safe!

David
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So where does the correction put you in negative numbers?
 
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