Great flight today - LONG

tonycondon

Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
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Tony
Today was a great day to hang out at the airport. Last night was the state soaring seminar and banquet. Pete came down to Cedar Rapids to visit with us, then drove over to Ames. He spent a good part of the day inspecting a Ka-6CR glider that will soon be his :) A couple great soaring friends, Kent, and the Matts from Ames were all around too. All in all a great day anyway, great friends. I did a couple flight with students through the day, but the weather was starting to deteriorate. Matt Sawhill flew his 140 in the morning and then hung out all day waiting for the weather to get bad. His never ending itch for some actual IMC time had caught up with him. Temps were looking good so I got a briefing and Matt, Kent, and I loaded up in the 182RG and headed out for a planned flight to Fort Dodge.

Fort Dodge is about 45 miles out. Perfect distance for Matt to get a little time to get used to the 182RG and used to flying in cloud. With an ILS there, the plan was to shoot the approach, then Matt and Kent would switch, and Kent would get some actual and an ILS back to Ames on the way home.

Weather briefing sounded good. No mention of tops, and on a previous flight Des Moines had said tops were reported at 8000. One PIREP of turbulence along the route. Weather was in the 5-800 Overcast area. Des Moines was a good alternate. Surface temps were in the +6 degC range. I knew from earlier briefings there was an inversion aloft. Here is the sounding for Ames around departure time:

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So anyway you can see that its basically perfect IFR weather, particularly for Iowa in early March. This flight was great for Matt on many levels. First he was incredibly bored during the taxi to the runway since there was so little to do. Since all of his logged time, up until today, is in taildraggers, the not so challenge of taxiing the 182RG was pretty boring. Then of course there was the whole operating a high performance / complex aircraft that was a little step up from the 140. Add to that that the ceiling was at 700 AGL and we would soon be in solid IMC for over an hour was quite overwhelming.

As we headed for Fort Dodge we heard a Saab 340 make the ILS into runway 6. I thought about trying to get a PIREP from them on ice but didnt manage to fit it in. Outside air temps at 4000 were in the mid to low 40's. Center dropped us to 3400 MSL and cleared us for the approach when we were about 25 miles out. We flew through a few areas of pretty good rain and some decent turbulence. Barreling along fat dumb and happy the three of us were really enjoying ourselves. Discussions about operating in a non radar environment, basic attitude instrument flying and single pilot IFR techniques ensued. Matt really caught on fast to keeping the airplane straight and following the VOR.

As we were approaching the outer marker I was heads down to double check that frequencies and courses were set up correctly for the ILS and to know what our next moves were. Upon looking back up I saw several areas of ice on the windshield. Leading edges of the struts were starting to build a little rime as well. Here is the sounding for Fort Dodge for about the time we were there:

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According to the sounding we would've been in warm air at 3400, but it seems the sounding was slid to the left a little in reality. Actually, from the sounding, it seems the actual freezing layer would be very thin, which is why I think the Forecast Icing Potential was so low in the Fort Dodge area, only about 15% at 3000 feet:

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But no matter what the soundings and forecast said, we were in ice. This was the only real point where I asked Matt for a decision. Up until then he was doing a fine job of following the VOR and other directions I had given him. I was helping with all radio related work. So when I asked him "What do you think we should do?" he was sort of task saturated at the time anyway. His immediate answer was "Turn around" Sounds good I thought, so over my shoulder. "Kent, got any opinions on the situation you would like to share?" "Turn around and climb" It sounded to me like I was flying with a couple of smart pilots so around we went and up we went. I called center and told them we were breaking off the approach and headed back to Ames. Reported the light rime ice and we were on our way. Within the next 5 or 10 miles the ice was gone and we were cruising. The rest of the trip was pretty boring really. Kent and I talked Matt through a passable ILS into Ames and he made a nice crosswind landing in an airplane that requires about double the rudder force as his 140. Logbook entry was something like:

Intro High Performance/Complex/Tricycle/IFR/Ice flight. Lots of firsts!!

Anyway we had a great flight and all 3 of us were walking about 10 feet above the ground after landing. Great debrief and discussion over beer at supper. Now Matt is off to listen to CFICast #14 "CFI's on Ice".
 

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Ah yes, a good time was had by all, especially those of us who went flying. Unfortunately, since we didn't get to land at FOD, I didn't get to fly. Matt will have to see my mad 182 IFR skills some other time. :rofl:
 
Great flight, and a great writeup! Tony, you're really starting to dig this ice forecasting stuff. Too bad you weren't better at it! :rofl: I want to increase my proficiency too, so I can pass it along.
 
Great flight, and a great writeup! Tony, you're really starting to dig this ice forecasting stuff. Too bad you weren't better at it! :rofl: I want to increase my proficiency too, so I can pass it along.

ha ha ha. the preflight stuff really gave the indication that ice was not likely, and if it was encountrered there was easy outs ( climb, turn around and climb/descend.) so i wasnt too worried. it was truly the perfect weather to do some training in. best part is its exactly the kind of experience that Matt was looking for.
 
ha ha ha. the preflight stuff really gave the indication that ice was not likely, and if it was encountrered there was easy outs ( climb, turn around and climb/descend.) so i wasnt too worried. it was truly the perfect weather to do some training in. best part is its exactly the kind of experience that Matt was looking for.
Yeah, I went by the airport today and, if my back wasn't giving me problems, would probably have grabbed a plane and maybe an instructor (or Leslie or both) and gone up for a few approaches. Looked perfect IMC, with about 1400' BKN. And I wouldn't have been expecting any ice, either! Having outs makes the difference, though!
 
Boy, I wish I understood half of that, but hell yeah, sounds like a great day!
 
Sounds a whole hell of a lot better than my drive home from AMW to MSN. I left ames around 4ish, just about the same time that Matt, Tony, and Kent departed from the airport, and had ok wx until just past Waterloo IA with occasional fog banks, but quite managable. About 40 miles out of Dubuque it was solid IMC on the ground. At some points I could barely make out the next centerline stripe on the HWY. thankfully I had my GPS on me so it would indicate any curves ahaed. I finallly managerd to find an exit (wouldn't have been able to find the exit without the GPS) and find a gas sation/coffe shop in the metropolis of Farley IA.

I figure that I must have been in the warm front region of the weather system that blew through here, as I was following a good line of thunderstorms. The other cool thing was that when I finally "descended" into the Mississippi river vallye in DBQ, was that I descended out of the clouds. Once I got ahead of the system a bit, it got better, but it was still one of the most exhausting drives of my life.

Pete
 
In order to log an IFR approach and use it for your IFR currency how bad does the weather have to be?
 
As for driving a car I don't know, but the rule of thumb for being in actual I have always been told is that if you are in IMC at the FAF you can go ahead and log it as an an approach for currency.

Pete
 
Here is what I am wondering about, since it seems keeping my IFR currency without a day or two under the foggles is impossible. AWOS reporting 10 SM Clear below 12,000. However it is hazy and from the air at 4000 vis is aroung 3. Shooting an Approach at the FAF airport is not discernable in the haze. Can I count it as one of my six for currency?
 
Tony save those charts and if I make it to Gastons you can explain what the hell they say. Sounds like a great experience for Matt.
 
Tony save those charts and if I make it to Gastons you can explain what the hell they say. Sounds like a great experience for Matt.
I think that we need to have a session on Skew-T plots at Gaston's. Scott's already offered to do one before then online at chesavtraining.com, IIRC.
 
Tony save those charts and if I make it to Gastons you can explain what the hell they say. Sounds like a great experience for Matt.

I think that we need to have a session on Skew-T plots at Gaston's. Scott's already offered to do one before then online at chesavtraining.com, IIRC.
You can buy his CD giving in-depth training on the Skew-T from the web site.
 
Sounds like a hoot, Tony! Great first IMC experience for Matt, too.
 
Here is what I am wondering about, since it seems keeping my IFR currency without a day or two under the foggles is impossible. AWOS reporting 10 SM Clear below 12,000. However it is hazy and from the air at 4000 vis is aroung 3. Shooting an Approach at the FAF airport is not discernable in the haze. Can I count it as one of my six for currency?

I'd say no, as with 3-mile vis you are probably not controlling the airplane "solely by reference to the instruments." On most approaches, you'd need better than 5-mile vis to see the airport from the FAF, and that's clearly not IMC. :no:
 
I really only know enough about the Skew-T's to be dangerous. I can give you the basics of what I know but if you (and I) really want to understand the inner workings of the forecasts you have to get Scott's CD.
 
Kent and I talked Matt through a passable ILS into Ames and he made a nice crosswind landing in an airplane that requires about double the rudder force as his 140.

And double or triple the elevator force too, right? Hehehe...

Thanks for the nice write-up Tony!
 
Man, I'm still mulling over what I experienced yesterday. I'll try to share my thoughts, but I was pretty saturated from the start. Expect nothing profound in my account.

I'm not sure my performance was quite as flattering as Tony described, but I've been heck-bent on starting my IFR training with some real-world context (i.e., IMC), and our flight was exactly what I'd been hoping for. As someone who flies for fun in a VFR-only aircraft, it's been surprisingly difficult to find opportunities to experience even the most basic IMC flying.

The 182RG certainly seems like a capable machine. I was pretty stunned by the control forces. I remember trying to correct for the crosswind on short final and feeling like something was wrong. I just couldn't get enough rudder correction in to point the nose down the runway. It took me several seconds to figure out that I had to really stand on it to get it to do my bidding. I don't think the 182 rudder moves until you've applied more force than it takes to put the 140 in a full slip.

I learned to fly powered aircraft in my 140. As an owner, I've discovered through experience that ownership tends to limit the variety of aircraft you fly. For me, it's been pretty much 100% Cessna 140 time. Jumping into a HP, complex trike with a full panel was quite a change. Ideally, I'd probably want to get checked out in the RG before flying it again in IMC, just because I think the demands of IFR training require that the basic airplane handling be totally instinctive. I'm confident I could get comfortable with the plane given some more time in it.

With regard to ice, it's been a topic of interest for me for several months now. As an aspiring GA-for-personal-transportation IFR pilot, I have every expectation that I'll encounter ice in my flying "career" well before I have the $$ to buy a FIKI twin. Yesterday's experience taught me more than 1000 posts on the subject, and it will be burned into memory for a long time. I was totally pegged just with the task of chasing the needles around (this was my first flight with an attitude indicator and DG in the panel), and I remember glancing at the slush chunks on the windshield and not really reacting until being prompted a split second later by Tony.

I think it was Kent's suggestion to turn around. My first thought was to climb, since only moments earlier we were 600 ft higher and ice-free in a bit of a clearing between cloud layers. Either way, this was validation that ice sneaks up on you fast, and you'd better have a clear picture of the temps/moisture/frontal situation aloft at the first hint of icing. I know it's a contentious subject, but for my dollar, I want real midwest icing instruction in my IFR training experience no matter what the regs or operating limitations say. Mission accomplished, but much more experience would be welcome. A lone icing encounter with instructor on board went a lot further in teaching me to avoid ice than it did to build confidence that I can handle it. Abstinence in this regime of IFR flying can't be any more beneficial than abstinence from spins in VFR instruction.

I hardly remember the touchdown. I certainly don't remember Tony putting the gear down, except for the nose dive that ensued shortly thereafter (how many turns can a VSI needle make around the dial, anyway?). It was awesome breaking out and seeing the runway ahead (not that it would have been there without some help from Tony). I still haven't gotten caught up to the airplane, and it was over 24 hours ago!

For my IFR instruction, my goal is to get the best training available, and to shoot for the highest standards possible. I don't think any amount of planning or preparation could have yielded a better kickoff experience than I had yesterday. Tony's instruction was superb, and between you and me, I don't regret for a second that Kent didn't get a chance to fly! I loved and savored every second of the experience.:yes:

Matthew
 
Abstinence in this regime of IFR flying can't be any more beneficial than abstinence from spins in VFR instruction.


This is my favorite sentence from a great write up.

MM
 
Scott, as always -- THANK YOU!

I was perplexed by Tony's sounding - looked to me like he would have an ok flight in clouds. Your additional analysis sure helped to clear up my confusion. This will be a big help in my future wx analyses.

FOLKS -- if you don't have Scott's Skew-T and Icing CDs, GET THEM! You won't believe the wealth of information.

Tony -- Great write up. Thanks for including all the graphics. This was an extremely valuable post.
 
Scott-

thanks for posting the reply over here. we are all learning this bit by bit. I truly appreciate your willingness to go through these flights from this winter and analyze them for us. Hopefully it sells a few more CDs for you.
 
Scott-

thanks for posting the reply over here. we are all learning this bit by bit. I truly appreciate your willingness to go through these flights from this winter and analyze them for us. Hopefully it sells a few more CDs for you.
I second his thanks. And if I don't receive them for my b'day tomorrow, I'm going out to order them!:yes:
 
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