Grass Strip Construction Progress

timwinters

timwinters

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A couple of folks here have asked that I keep them updated on my grass strip construction progress. Well, be careful what you ask for!

Here's the first installment since we closed on the property last Thursday.

The property is in Perry County, MO about 7.5 NM from the FAM VOR on the 88 degree radial.

The FAA form 7480-1 was sent immediately after closing.

MoDOT aviation division was contacted. They have no authority.

The county has been contacted. They have no authority. Building permits are required for structures only. $20. There are no buildinig codes. No inspections. They merely ensure you're not in a flood plain and notify the assessor so he can make sure he gets your building(s) appraised and then send you the appropriate tax bill.

We created an LLC for this property purchase. We also own a construction company that is incorporated (and that owns the 182). The game plan is as follows:

The LLC leases a strip of land to the Corp. The corp is responsible for all improvements required to improve the runway.

The LLC builds a hangar and leases it to the Corp.

The LLC builds an apartment/garage and leases it to us personally. We will move into the apartment once we sell our Springfield house.

Once we're there, in the apartment, we buy 5 acres from the LLC and build a house.

Then the apartment/garage becomes the construction company's Office/Shop and the LLC leases this building to the Corp.

Smoke and mirrors.

Here's the property, it's 80 acres. Could easily fit 4,000' but will probably only build 2,000' to 2,500'

attachment.php


Here's what we plan to build for the apartment/garage. The workshop will be the temporary office for the construction company.

http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/garage-plan-3849ja.asp

I designed a bigger version of this that included a two bedroom apartment and a hangar on the first floor instead of the garages but we decided it was simpler and cheaper to keep the hangar separate (Beams that span 40' and are strong enough to support a floor above plus the roof load start making things expensive) .

The hangar will be about 45' square with 20' covered parking attached to the back side for parking tractors and all the equipment one needs to maintain 80 acres.

Construction to begin in 30 to 45 days. Next update in 60 days or so.
 
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timwinters said:
A couple of folks here have asked that I keep them updated on my grass strip construction progress. Well, be careful what you ask for!
Click to expand...
Sounds like you'll have quite a place! I'd like to see some pictures. :yes: They didn't attach on the PM, so maybe you could post them here. :)
 
Awesome! Sounds like a great project! Let us know when you start looking for noisy neighbors. ;)
 
Tim, you get this thing all done, wait and see how long it takes you to get 3,105 (figure changes daily) new friends!
 
Cool thread! I would like to know who is insuring who?

Will you open this to the public, if even by prior permission only?
 
Sounds exciting... who wouldn't want their own backyard runway?
Humor an idiot, will you... what advantages come from structuring all of that the way you did? Is it strictly a tax thing, or...?
 
Ok Guys
Since we are on the subject of grass runways, I have a friend who live's in Boyne City MI. He has already built his hanger and will be working on and putting grass seed on his runway. Its only about 1200 ft but he is flying a Challenger2 so he doesn't need alot of runway. Does anybody know what type of grass seed would be best for a runway? The soil in Boyne is pretty sandy, and also if there is a place that is cheaper than buying it local.

Thanks Mike
 
SCCutler said:
Tim, you get this thing all done, wait and see how long it takes you to get 3,105 (figure changes daily) new friends!
Click to expand...

Won't happen. We're still waiting for more than 12.
 
Sounds like Missouri is relatively aviation friendly.

Try to get a private strip built in Nevada without a politician as a brother-in-law or something. B) Counterintuitive, I know...
 
flykelley said:
Ok Guys
Since we are on the subject of grass runways, I have a friend who live's in Boyne City MI. He has already built his hanger and will be working on and putting grass seed on his runway. Its only about 1200 ft but he is flying a Challenger2 so he doesn't need alot of runway. Does anybody know what type of grass seed would be best for a runway? The soil in Boyne is pretty sandy, and also if there is a place that is cheaper than buying it local.

Thanks Mike
Click to expand...

The nomowgrass sounds pretty interesting but also talk to the local golf course and/or parks and/or ballpark grounds keepers. They'll know what grasses do best in your area

rottydaddy said:
Humor an idiot, will you... what advantages come from structuring all of that the way you did? Is it strictly a tax thing, or...?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's all taxes and write offs. Uncle Sam is pretty friendly to small business owners...almost criminally so. When I first started out I can't tell you how many times I exclaimed to my accountant "I can seriously do that without going to jail!?!?!"

Richard said:
Cool thread! I would like to know who is insuring who?
Click to expand...

You know, that's a question I haven't thought out yet. I actually may have to form another entity that leases and manages the runway...an entity with little or no assets except maybe transfer the plane to that entity also. They get the insurance. That way we and the other companies are protected.

Richard said:
Will you open this to the public, if even by prior permission only?
Click to expand...

I haven't decided yet, probably open by permission but it would depend upon how much that insurance we're contemplating costs! It could be a real...
:hairraise:
 
vontresc said:
I heard about this stuff a while back....cool Idea.

http://nomowgrass.com
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That stuff sounds almost too good to be true. :yes:

Our two grass runways have mostly fescue with a good mix of weeds, pieces of corn junk that got spit out of the combine, and a few inspection plates out there somewhere.
 
flykelley said:
Ok Guys
Since we are on the subject of grass runways, I have a friend who live's in Boyne City MI. He has already built his hanger and will be working on and putting grass seed on his runway. Its only about 1200 ft but he is flying a Challenger2 so he doesn't need alot of runway. Does anybody know what type of grass seed would be best for a runway? The soil in Boyne is pretty sandy, and also if there is a place that is cheaper than buying it local.

Thanks Mike
Click to expand...
The first thing he needs is beet juice...lots of it.
 
Richard said:
The first thing he needs is beet juice...lots of it.
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Hi Richard. why beet juice? I know we use it her in michigan as a deicer but to use it to help grass grow is a new one.

Thanks Mike
 
flykelley said:
Hi Richard. why beet juice? I know we use it her in michigan as a deicer but to use it to help grass grow is a new one.

Thanks Mike
Click to expand...

Because you are going to want to roll the field every spring. Fill the roller with beet juice and it wont freeze over the winter. But what do I know...
 
EdFred said:
Because you are going to want to roll the field every spring. Fill the roller with beet juice and it wont freeze over the winter. But what do I know...
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Well I learned something new today.Thanks Guys thats a great idea.

Regards Mike
 
Pjsmith said:
What are you going to use for markings/lighting?
Click to expand...

I plan to use 24" lengths of white 8" to 12" PVC sewer pipe cut in half lengthwise.

I really don't like the idea of tires painted white. I don't have that much redneck in my blood...yet!

Lights may come later.
 
3M reflective tape. Like runway lights without wires. Or batteries. Or anything else.
 
Richard said:
The first thing he needs is beet juice...lots of it.
Click to expand...

Is beet juice readily available ? I remember a thread like this over on the red board a while back. I seem to remember it's a lot like building greens for golf courses.
 
timwinters said:
I plan to use 24" lengths of white 8" to 12" PVC sewer pipe cut in half lengthwise.

I really don't like the idea of tires painted white. I don't have that much redneck in my blood...yet!

Lights may come later.
Click to expand...
Use of tires is more a safety thing. If someone goes careening I'd prefer they hit PVC pipe.
 
timwinters said:
I plan to use 24" lengths of white 8" to 12" PVC sewer pipe cut in half lengthwise.

I really don't like the idea of tires painted white. I don't have that much redneck in my blood...yet!

Lights may come later.
Click to expand...


I'm terribly Jealous of your project!!! I hope to do the same thing some day. The land prices in NW Arkansas are still prohibitively high to have some land and be within 30-45 minutes of work. That probably won't be getting better if history is any indication.

For runway markers, there was a guy in the Bolivar area (an A&P mechanic) used those solar garden lights (or something similar) for his runway markers at one time. I flew models at that field a couple of times, but it's been a few years. Not sure how well you can see them from the air, but it looked like a neat idea.
 
upside down 5 gallon buckets make great runway edge markers. and they can be easily modified later on with upside down pickle jars and light bulbs for edge lighting.
 
I logged on to this board because of many years of frustration with my grass strip. The strip was developed in 1985. We started with having a bull dozer come in and remove trees and fill a gulley. Next was a grader to smooth the surface. The mistake here was not disking up the strip before the grader came in. I didn't have a tandem disk at that time. The grader operator had difficulty dealing with the grass that was already there. It didn't come out as smooth as I wanted. I had a length of 12 inch wide flange I beam about 12 feet long so I drug it over the strip but the existing grass defeated this smoothing attempt. This dragging may have exacerbated the situation as the strip is in sand. Where the grass was thin it gouged out soil.

My next effort was chaining together three old rear tractor tires. This knocked down loose fire ant mounts and cow chips but didn't contribute to smoothing the surface. Bought a 14 foot tandem disk and cut into the surface about two or three inches with the disk set at a minimum offset. The thought was loosening the soil would allow rains to wash loose soil into the low spots. Didn't work. During this time I also acquired a old LARGE drag type commercial roller which holds about four or five hundred gallons of water. I rolled the runway when it had good moisture with the though of mashing out highs. That didn't work either.

The next effort was using 16 feet of 6 foot chain link fence secured to a 16 foot pipe to use as a drag. The three old rear tractor tires were chained to the top of the chain link fence and drug. This may have helped a little but the result were still not satisfactory.

I am now planning a heavy steal drag some 14 feet long with 3 inch angle iron scrapers welded across at a shallow angle. I'm hoping the scrapers will cut highs and, given the length, will drop the buildup into the lows. I think this will be best accomplished in the winter when the grass is dormant.
 
bronco said:
I logged on to this board because of many years of frustration with my grass strip. The strip was developed in 1985. We started with having a bull dozer come in and remove trees and fill a gulley. Next was a grader to smooth the surface. The mistake here was not disking up the strip before the grader came in. I didn't have a tandem disk at that time. The grader operator had difficulty dealing with the grass that was already there. It didn't come out as smooth as I wanted. I had a length of 12 inch wide flange I beam about 12 feet long so I drug it over the strip but the existing grass defeated this smoothing attempt. This dragging may have exacerbated the situation as the strip is in sand. Where the grass was thin it gouged out soil.

My next effort was chaining together three old rear tractor tires. This knocked down loose fire ant mounts and cow chips but didn't contribute to smoothing the surface. Bought a 14 foot tandem disk and cut into the surface about two or three inches with the disk set at a minimum offset. The thought was loosening the soil would allow rains to wash loose soil into the low spots. Didn't work. During this time I also acquired a old LARGE drag type commercial roller which holds about four or five hundred gallons of water. I rolled the runway when it had good moisture with the though of mashing out highs. That didn't work either.

The next effort was using 16 feet of 6 foot chain link fence secured to a 16 foot pipe to use as a drag. The three old rear tractor tires were chained to the top of the chain link fence and drug. This may have helped a little but the result were still not satisfactory.

I am now planning a heavy steal drag some 14 feet long with 3 inch angle iron scrapers welded across at a shallow angle. I'm hoping the scrapers will cut highs and, given the length, will drop the buildup into the lows. I think this will be best accomplished in the winter when the grass is dormant.
Click to expand...

Man alive, that sounds like WORK!

I have a good friend who built a strip, had a number of innovative things he did in the process, if you like I can ask him how he did it.

Also, where (ballpark) are you? Soil composition, etc.?
 
bronco said:
I logged on to this board because of many years of frustration with my grass strip. The strip was developed in 1985. We started with having a bull dozer come in and remove trees and fill a gulley. Next was a grader to smooth the surface. The mistake here was not disking up the strip before the grader came in. I didn't have a tandem disk at that time. The grader operator had difficulty dealing with the grass that was already there. It didn't come out as smooth as I wanted. I had a length of 12 inch wide flange I beam about 12 feet long so I drug it over the strip but the existing grass defeated this smoothing attempt. This dragging may have exacerbated the situation as the strip is in sand. Where the grass was thin it gouged out soil.

My next effort was chaining together three old rear tractor tires. This knocked down loose fire ant mounts and cow chips but didn't contribute to smoothing the surface. Bought a 14 foot tandem disk and cut into the surface about two or three inches with the disk set at a minimum offset. The thought was loosening the soil would allow rains to wash loose soil into the low spots. Didn't work. During this time I also acquired a old LARGE drag type commercial roller which holds about four or five hundred gallons of water. I rolled the runway when it had good moisture with the though of mashing out highs. That didn't work either.

The next effort was using 16 feet of 6 foot chain link fence secured to a 16 foot pipe to use as a drag. The three old rear tractor tires were chained to the top of the chain link fence and drug. This may have helped a little but the result were still not satisfactory.

I am now planning a heavy steal drag some 14 feet long with 3 inch angle iron scrapers welded across at a shallow angle. I'm hoping the scrapers will cut highs and, given the length, will drop the buildup into the lows. I think this will be best accomplished in the winter when the grass is dormant.
Click to expand...

If you've got actual 'turf' that you're trying to remove, about the only way you can get rid of it is to spray it with a nice shot of roundup. WAIT and let it completely kill the grass, then go in and work the snot out of it. It takes several workings with a good disk in good soil conditions (if you can pack the dirt in your fist and it remains in a clump, it is too wet) to get the turf really demolished. After the root system of the old turf has been removed (worked into the soil), THEN you can work with the different types of drags to smooth everything out and create a nice seedbed for the new grass. Until the new grass is established with a strong root system, you have to force yourself not to over-use it and make sure to stay off of it when the ground is soft/wet.

I'm not a runway expert, but my grandfather demanded that his pastures be in a condition that could be used for runways (although he didn't know it at the time ;)). Patience will pay off in the long-run, but there's no such thing as a 'quick fix' for changing turf.
 
Have the entity that owns the land, register the strip itself as a 'runway' on the county tax rolls, which legally separates it from the sorrounding land... (yes, there is such a tax description in most counties) You can have it surveyed, or just estimate it as the umpteen feet from the left half of the right quadrant of the galaxy, etc. description...

The advantage here is, assuming the local news reporter does not make it a "details at 6" lead story on a slow news day, that it will fly under the radar for a few, or more, years... Then when the inevitable NIMBY Whacko, starts beating the drum for the township to shut down that 'damned lethal nuisance' you have the gotcha, "Sorry Charlie, it is a legal and registered runway and only the FAA has the authority to close it."
We had that situation locally, and because the runway was listed as such on the tax rolls, the owner prevailed over a neightbor who had contracted with a cell phone company to put up a 200' tower right off the end of the runway and who was suing everyone in sight to have the runway legally shut down... No joy in the mudville court for the neighbor when the judge was handed a copy of the taxes paid over the years... It turned out later that the cell guys admitted they knew the runway had been there but thought they could bulldoze the owner into the ground...

denny-o
 
Bronco, welcome to POA. I am hoping EdFRed will chime in as he is currently maintaining a grass strip up in the UP of Michigan.
 
I got a copy of that Texas manual (I'm in Texas) in 1985 when the strip was put in. I have read the current manual and it contains much good information but is light (non existent) on actual ground preparation

I understand about roundup and have a 250 gallon stray rig but will still try the heavy drag in the winter rather than having to start over with sod. Actually, the strip isn't that bad at all but I'm wanting it really soothe. The Chipmunk (tail dragger) is no problem. Actually, the 172 works fine but I would like to work the gear less when on the ground.
 
bronco said:
I understand about roundup and have a 250 gallon stray rig but will still try the heavy drag in the winter rather than having to start over with sod. Actually, the strip isn't that bad at all but I'm wanting it really soothe. The Chipmunk (tail dragger) is no problem. Actually, the 172 works fine but I would like to work the gear less when on the ground.
Click to expand...

If you're more or less just trying to bust up the clods, you might be able to get by with a drag-type harrow. We used them after seeding wheat with a broadcast spreader.

It's a little more rigid than a regular 'pull type' drag, but not so rigid that it will tear everything up like a disc will.

LB%20Drag%20Harrow%20DHL-2T.jpg


I can't find a pic of the harrow we used b/c it is apparently too antique. ;) The one we had was 15-20' wide and had the ability to adjust the angle of the 'teeth' - if it's digging too much, you can shallow up the angle and vice versa.
 
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Somebody asked where I'm located. The strip is 35 miles south of downtown Fort Worth, Texas as the crow flies. It is offically designed as TE 16 and is "Cow Pasture" on the DFW chart. The soil is mostly sandy loam with a few spots of more clayl like soil.

Here is a Google view of my strip.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...938,-97.297819&spn=0.011161,0.022681&t=h&z=16

Have trouble with gophers too. Haven't popped for a gopher plow yet. Been trying the poison with limited success.

For you guys who think owning your own strip would be the greatest you need to know it is not cheap and requires a lot of work to maintain it. My strip is 100' x 2200' which, as I remember, is about 6 acres. So, Mowing equipment is required. I use a 50 hp Kubota with a 6.5 ' fail mower.

My strip need fertilizer which is $500 to $600 a ton. This strip needs a ton of fertilizer per year to be in good shape. It also needs regular rain which we are very short of this year.

I enjoy my strip but anyone considering their own strip should know what they are getting into. If one doesn't already own the land as I did, a smaller airstrip community might be something to consider.
 
bronco said:
My strip is 100' x 2200' which, as I remember, is about 6 acres. So, Mowing equipment is required. I use a 50 hp Kubota with a 6.5 ' fail mower.
Click to expand...

That's actually a little over 5 acres.

An update on my strip...

We bought another farm since starting this thread and we moved out on it last December. This one has two fields that would make decent strips. Both will allow about 2000'. I plan to put the strip in the upper field for numerous reasons that I won't bore you with here. Hopefully, I'll have it completed by next year this time. In the meantime, I'm hangared and a nice little 2800' community grass strip in Marble Hill, MO (0t3).

As far as mowing is concerned, I bought a Bush Hog brand ZTR that has a 51" deck. I mow 4 acres on the farm in less than 2 hours. This thing screams (wide open, which is the way I run it of course, it's cutting at 14mph) and it flat lays down the grass. Plus it's kinda fun!. When we had our last farm I mowed with a 8' Woods finish mower behind a Ford 4200. The ZTR easily mows twice as much even though the deck's only 60% the size. Our local Woods dealer told me that ZTRs have killed his business. Now that I own one I fully understand why! So, with a good, commercial quality ZTR one should be able to mow a grass strip in about an hour. My strip will be 2000' x 100' but I only plan to keep the center 50' or so mowed (just over 2 acres). The rest will be a "safety zone" and only occasionally mowed to keep it clear of brush.

We're keeping the original land we bought as an investment but if anyone needs 80 acres that you can put a 3,000' strip on...I might be coerced!:rolleyes:
 
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Till it and let everything die
disc it
drag it
seed it
roll it
 
EdFred said:
Till it and let everything die
disc it
drag it
seed it
roll it
Click to expand...

I would add "Cut it as short as possible before disturbing any dirt"...

Otherwise, the existing grass fibers will just cause <more> trouble in getting clumps and root balls to break-up.
 
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