Grand Canyon Trip Help

[VWGhiaBob]

Thinking of flying to Grand Canyon (KVNY, KHND overnight, KGCN) for a cross country tomorrow.

Can anyone point me to helpful links for using the special flight corridors and dealing with all the restrictions?

 

[coma24]

The Grand Canyon VFR chart can be reviewed on Skyvector:
http://skyvector.com/?ll=36.10346136746135,-112.96939461214393&chart=230&zoom=5

You can use it to plan your route, review the corridors, etc.

 

[coma24]

And then there's this, although you should double check to make sure it's current. This is the same sub part referenced on the Grand Canyon VFR Chart.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-93/subpart-U

So, between the chart and the text, you should have what you need.

 

[VWGhiaBob]

Thanks, Coma!

Any tips and tricks from folks who have "been there done that"? Flying a normally aspirated Saratoga (300hp) lightly loaded. Haven't flown at those high altitudes yet, though I did a mountain flying checkride landing and take off at Big Bear on a 7,000 pressure altitude day.

Thanks, all!

 

[MAKG1]

Those altitudes are FAR above terrain, but you can still get some "interesting" winds.

I've no experience in a Saratoga, but other Pipers really don't seem to like altitudes over 10,000, even light. If I were you, I'd take it over some place closer to home like Banning Pass up to 12,500 and see how it does (and how you do -- oxygen may be an issue even if it is not required by reg -- take a pulse ox). If it takes 30 or 40 minutes to climb up there from sea level, do a canyon crossing on a severe-calm morning, only.

7000 feet is nothing compared to 12,500 in a naturally aspirated small aircraft. Big Bear can get hairy in the wind, but it's really easy in calm winds. I took a Warrior there once, with the DA sign at the run-up area reading 8500.

Know your V-speeds at altitude. As you get close to your service limit, you'll need to fly closer to Vy to maintain altitude. And Vy will be lower at those high altitudes. It often appears in the POH at 10,000. You may have to extrapolate to the actual DA.

 

[Pilawt]

The corridors through the Grand Canyon SFRA require altitudes of 10,500 or 11,500 depending on direction. That should be no problem for a normally-aspirated Saratoga, even moderately loaded. They handle higher altitudes better than a Hershey-bar wing Cherokee Six or Lance.

As always, try to plan your flying in the desert Southwest as early in the day as possible. Temperatures are cooler and winds are generally calmer before noon.

 

[CJones]

Get the Grand Canyon chart (and don't be surprised when the 'newest' version you can find hasn't been updated in several years). Quite a bit of commercial sight-seeing traffic in the area, but it's not like going in to OSH or anything at all like that.

We flew through the area in March a few years ago and it gets bumpy in the mid/late day. Try to get to the GCN area early AM if possible - it will make your life and pax (if any) much happier.

Also - enjoy the views. Amazing scenery to fly over:

 

[tinerj]

I crossed the dragon corridor in a Cessna 150. Set beginning and ending points in GPS and follow the height restriction. Easy and fun.

 

[chartbundle]

If you have a fancy electronic thingy you can get a PDF version here: http://www.chartbundle.com/chartdl?fmt=pdf&cht=misc&.submit=Show+Charts Be sure to get the General Aviation version and make sure your PDF program can read it. There are also downloads for various non-aviation GPS programs there too.

 

[dans2992]

Even if you fly in the middle of a hot afternoon, it's not the end of the world. Just might be bumpy.

 

[coloradobluesky]

Not sure you can get in and out of it with a Saratoga but there is a cool little airport and café on the Historic Register at Marble Canyon, identifier is L41 and it has a 3715' runway. Its in the bottom of a canyon and is waaaay cooolll! Be careful with this one and figure the density altitude and all that other good stuff. The café and Trading Post is an experience you'll never forget!

 

[murphey]

As noted earlier, lots of commercial sightseeing...there are specific frequencies used (on the GC chart) and you can also contact Vegas Approach for details.

Head on swivel, listen to radios, have fun!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Get the Grand Canyon VFR chart... That has all the info you need, and if you read it and follow it you'll do fine. Good tips already here on DA and oxygen.

Oh, and for some extra fun, plan the route so that you can use the Bat Cave as a reporting point.

 

[tinerj]

Not sure you can get in and out of it with a Saratoga but there is a cool little airport and café on the Historic Register at Marble Canyon, identifier is L41 and it has a 3715' runway. Its in the bottom of a canyon and is waaaay cooolll! Be careful with this one and figure the density altitude and all that other good stuff. The café and Trading Post is an experience you'll never forget!

You're actually flying inside the canyon (a side canyon called Marble Canyon), the only place a general aviation pilot can get below the canyon walls legally.

Kind of an interesting runway because on talk off, it looks like you're running out of runway, then you top a little bow in the runway, and suddenly it's twice as long as it first appeared. Landing is interesting too, because for part of the pattern a butte blocks part of the visibility of the runway. Did this one in Cessna 150, too. And walk across to the old bridge (pedestrians only) and watch the river runners float by.

 

[jimhorner]

Thinking of flying to Grand Canyon (KVNY, KHND overnight, KGCN) for a cross country tomorrow.

Can anyone point me to helpful links for using the special flight corridors and dealing with all the restrictions?

Did the Canyon thing this past Thanksgiving. Highly recommended; you'll enjoy it. As others have already said, get the Grand Canyon chart. You might also want to check out the advice in this link:
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueJJ99/canyon.html

If you've got the nav equipment, you can make things somewhat easier. I put in all of the reporting points on the chart into my 430w and entered my desired flight path into the 430 using those waypoints. I've also got an Android tablet with Garmin pilot on it. One neat feature about Garmin pilot is that, if you zoom in on the sectional charts, it will switch to the Grand Canyon chart automatically. Made it real easy to keep track of things in real time without fighting the paper chart...

We wanted to do a tour of Monument valley also (http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueAS99/monument.html), but it was completely socked in with Fog the entire weekend. We stayed in Sedona which was CAVU, but Flagstaff, the Easternmost portion of the Canyon, and Monument valley all had low lying fog the whole time.