GPS recomendations?

John Baker

John Baker

Final Approach
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John Baker
It seems promising that I am actually going to get a private certificate, so I'm thinking I would like to have a GPS for my 1978 Warrior II. I have never used a GPS. My airplane is IFR certified with all the steam gages and cheap replacement radios that actually work most of the time.

I'm 66 and not all that sophisticated when it comes to todays technologies, but I can usually blunder my way through most of the simpler ones.

So I'm wondering what y'all would recommend that would not be all that expensive. I could do a Garmin 430 panel mount, although I would really like to do something for less money, much less. I'm thinking more along the portable lines. The new $3,000.00+ Garmin seems like overkill for a non IFR jr. pilot. After reading this months AOPA magazine it just seems like it is geared more to the IFR community, having many features that a VFR hamburger chaser would never use.

My aircraft is a tie down, security is not all that great. Someone was messing with my plane just B 4 Thanksgiving. The cover was not the way I left it at all. Another reason not to go with panel mounted gear.

Any opinions would be appreciated.

John
 
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For the cost of a lot of that handhelds you can get a KLN94 which is a nice GPS and be able to do instrument approaches. The real cost is in the installation.

You do not have to start with the install being fully IFR. You can jsut mount the GPS and the antenna. Then later if you desire the IFR capability then adding the swtich, CDI and getting the certification is comething to consider as an incremental cost instead of having to buy a whole new GPS to go with your handheld.

Now if all you really want is a good but non-Garmin priced unit do look at the Lowrance 600c. Nice unit, very nice price.
 
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I'm loathe to recommend any one in particular as I have little experience with them... so I'll just be one of those jerks who reminds you not to rely on it too much. :D

More seriously: Lots of pilots like you use the 200 and 300-series Garmin portables, and there are definitely even cheaper units available if you just need a simple moving-map for situational awareness.
 
John,
It sounds like you are a VFR-ony pilot and aren't doing long cross-countries. Given that, I'd probably recommend a relatively low-end model, probably without weather. I swear by weather, but it really isn't necessary for the $100 hamburger.

If you were Instrument Rated (or had intentions of becoming so) and doing any serious cross-country stuff, I'd probably opt for an IFR-certified GPS despite the potential security concern, because it would give you a lot of additional functionality and would increase the value of the plane.

I don't know enough to recommend specific models, but something comparable feature-wise to the Garmin 296 is about where I'd start my investigation.
 
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Do the panel mount,, they remove very easy, get the allen wrench and learn to take it home with you.

they look in your aircraft and see some got there first.
 
You have mentioned flying to Colorado, which to me means you will appreciate terrain mapping and perhaps even XM capabilities for weather and perhaps entertainment. If I were flying SoCal, I would want both, and as the price points continue to plummet you can get a nice Garmin 396 at a reasonable price. I'm older than you are and can push the buttons correctly at least part of the time, so operating the unit isn't difficult. If you don't want to pay to keep the XM functions up to date, just disconnect the antenna.

There must be a ton of them at your airport, so my advice is to inquire around until you find somebody who has one and is willing to demo the features for you.

gprellwitz said:
John,
It sounds like you are a VFR-ony pilot and aren't doing long cross-countries. Given that, I'd probably recommend a relatively low-end model, probably without weather. I swear by weather, but it really isn't necessary for the $100 hamburger.

If you were Instrument Rated (or had intentions of becoming so) and doing any serious cross-country stuff, I'd probably opt for an IFR-certified GPS despite the potential security concern, because it would give you a lot of additional functionality and would increase the value of the plane.

I don't know enough to recommend specific models, but something comparable feature-wise to the Garmin 296 is about where I'd start my investigation.
Click to expand...
 
At your stage, and age, something that is easy to see, and easy to use are high priority. I know, cause it's my mantra as well. I don't have all the fancy gewgaws that many of the newer and costlier units have, but mine will easily do 'direct to KXXX' airport.

http://motors.listings.ebay.com/Avi...3QQlopgZ2QQsacatZ90975QQsocmdZListingItemList

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AvMa...ryZ90975QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Have a look at these two. They are not the generic Garmin units, but both will do a commendable job of VFR navigation and situational awareness. They have bigger screens, are fully portable, and relatively easy to use with several buttons getting you most of the capability. You can always fool with it on the ground and learn all it has to offer as you go.
 
You can probably find a good deal on a KLN-94 that will more than serve your purpose for GPS navigation as well as be IFR certified should you make that next step.

Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KLN-94-GPS-System-with-Extras_W0QQitemZ180309972384QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Aviation_Parts_Gear?hash=item180309972384&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A64%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I only saw the one on eBay but I've seen others in the past at a good price.

http://store.bennettavionics.com/kln94-puo.html
 
May I suggest that you consider want you want to do with the GPS
receiver? Will you eventually get an instrument rating? Do you want
moving map features? Do you need the SA features of a GPS?

I'll also suggest that you consider saving your money and not getting
a GPS receiver. The airplane doesn't fly any better or worse with it.
Do you *really* need the GPS features? (and yes, I don't have GPS
in my aircraft)

btw - wrt your aircraft's cover: perhaps it was just the wind.
 
docmirror said:
At your stage, and age, something that is easy to see, and easy to use are high priority. I know, cause it's my mantra as well. I don't have all the fancy gewgaws that many of the newer and costlier units have, but mine will easily do 'direct to KXXX' airport.

http://motors.listings.ebay.com/Avi...3QQlopgZ2QQsacatZ90975QQsocmdZListingItemList

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AvMa...ryZ90975QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Have a look at these two. They are not the generic Garmin units, but both will do a commendable job of VFR navigation and situational awareness. They have bigger screens, are fully portable, and relatively easy to use with several buttons getting you most of the capability. You can always fool with it on the ground and learn all it has to offer as you go.
Click to expand...

I agree with the above. Get a nice used Lowrance or Garmin *96 or *95 series. They can be yoke mounted. Have a decent sized screen and will have more than enough functionality for a VFR pilot.
Getting a used one, if you do decide that you want to "move up" to a panel mount later, you more than likely will be able to sell it for what you paid for it or very close to it. They don't seem to lose their value all that much from what I have seen.
I personally am still using a Pilot III for a handheld. It does the job for "direct to" and "nearest". Picked it up for a couple of hundred a few years ago and looking on ebay can still get what I paid for it.

Mark B
 
I vote for Garmin 396, or 496. The are very easy to use and really hold their value. If you buy a 296 and want to upgrade learning how to use the next one is easy they all operate about the same. Easy updates, XM weather capable, auto modes (where you can put it in your car and use it on long trips).
 
I've had a 196 since they came out several years ago. While it is not IFR certified, it is great for VFR situational awareness. Moreover, they can now be had for about $400 which is a steal in my opinion.
 
If you have IFR use in mind, only a certified panel-mount will do. The 430 is really the most popular unit around for good reason, and based on my experience giving folks instrument training with nearly every IFR GPS built, the easiest to learn and use. The KLN-94 is probably the next best choice, although it is a bit less capable (no WAAS, and no plans for a retrofit) and a bit more difficult to learn and use (fewer training tools available), but comes in at about half the installed cost of a new 430W.
 
While I don't own any of the *96 series I have flown with all of them up to the 496. I have been looking at upgrading to the 196 but my old Garmin 12XL is still working just fine for the kind of flying I do.

Sounds to me that a Garmin 196 would work great for you. As mentioned above it has large screen and is relatively easy to use. I would guess that 90% of your usage will be selecting the Direct to your destination and reading the coarse line, Ground Speed and estimated time in route.

The terrain awareness is a cool feature but really not that useful for VFR Flying.

The XM Radio/TFR and Weather features of the 396 and 496 are very cool. The TFR information is always useful, but the Weather feature I have found to only be marginally useful for most VFR Flying. If you are doing a lot of Cross country flying it would be more useful. But of course these units are more expensive and you have to pay the annual subscription to use the XM Radio features.

Brian Case
CFIIG/ASEL
 
If you do any long distance cross country flying, one of the boxes with XM weather is very valuable. If you fly mostly VFR, one of the earlier boxes with the basic nav funtion will serve well for a minimal price. There are individuals who will rent you a 396/496 for any longer trip you may want to make.
It depends upon where you live, who flies with you and how variable the weather is that makes XM weather so priceless.
If I fly more than 200 nm and/or with my family to/from my home in the Great Lakes area, XM weather can make the difference between departing and diverting or staying at home.
Last weekend, I flew from Ohio to Iowa. The weather was VFR, but the winds were howling. I experienced 20kt increasing to 30 kt headwinds along the entire 400 nm route. I flew at a non-standard altitude to avoid stronger headwinds and used flight following to avoid confliciting traffic.
The return trip forecast showed VFR to the Ohio border with strong tailwinds. The 496 allowed me to monitor where the actual IFR boundary was enroute and, again, to select the optimum altitude based on winds aloft. This allowed me to get to an airport within 100 nm of my destination and drive my family home by evening. I returned the rental car the next moring and flew the remaining leg in VFR as the system had passed eastward during the night.
 
I flew with my instructor today, he gave me my Bravo sign off. He thinks my check ride will be before Christmas, he thinks I am pretty much ready. I wish I had his confidence. I think I will follow Mark B's advise and just get something inexpensive off e-bay for now. I know I am going to want to take a break from flight instruction for a while, so for now IFR training is not on my agenda.

When I first started, in ground school, the instructor said that a little more than 70% of people who get their tickets either never fly again or they will go up one or two more times. This is another reason I bought my own airplane, to make sure I'll keep going up. I will for sure go with a panel mount 430 if I decide to go for my IFR. I might just get one anyway.

Av-gas is really coming down in price. I paid $3.30 (not sure of the change) for it today. The airport was very busy today at MYF because of the fuel prices. Lots of jets.

John
 
John Baker said:
Av-gas is really coming down in price. I paid $3.30 (not sure of the change) for it today. The airport was very busy today at MYF because of the fuel prices. Lots of jets.

John
Click to expand...

Chargers in town? I used to fly out of MYF. Lived a mile south of there. Nice place, I still have a house nearby. IMHO a 430 is way, way overkill. If you spend under $600 for a portable unit it'll last for a long time. Check the installed cost of a 430 and get back to us.......
 
docmirror said:
Chargers in town? I used to fly out of MYF. Lived a mile south of there. Nice place, I still have a house nearby. IMHO a 430 is way, way overkill. If you spend under $600 for a portable unit it'll last for a long time. Check the installed cost of a 430 and get back to us.......
Click to expand...

About a year ago, the avionics guy at Gibbs said he could probably get me a used 430 installed for around $8,000.00. I think it will probably end up being around $10,000.00.

Your right, for me, at this time, I also think it is overkill. I can attack my savings account and get it done, but with the economy the way it is, I think I would be better off having the money.

John
 
I'm a VFR pilot,57, and will probably not become IFR. I use a Lowrance 2000C w/terrain Awr. They are now $699 with all the mounting accessories,etc. Use it in your boat,car,or plane. It has a simulated glass panel and easy to use. Nice sized screen. No XM weather capability though.
I've had it for two years now and no problems,recently updated the terrain for $99. Color ,cheap,simple, no problems. Works for me
 
John Baker said:
I will for sure go with a panel mount 430 if I decide to go for my IFR. I might just get one anyway.
Click to expand...
You might indeed. However, if you're strictly VFR, the 496 with the panel-mounted docking station is probably the best bang for the buck (including weather and all that), and it can interface with the 430 if you add that later.
 
John Baker said:
It seems promising that I am actually going to get a private certificate, so I'm thinking I would like to have a GPS for my 1978 Warrior II. I have never used a GPS. My airplane is IFR certified with all the steam gages and cheap replacement radios that actually work most of the time.

I'm 66 and not all that sophisticated when it comes to todays technologies, but I can usually blunder my way through most of the simpler ones.

So I'm wondering what y'all would recommend that would not be all that expensive. I could do a Garmin 430 panel mount, although I would really like to do something for less money, much less. I'm thinking more along the portable lines. The new $3,000.00+ Garmin seems like overkill for a non IFR jr. pilot. After reading this months AOPA magazine it just seems like it is geared more to the IFR community, having many features that a VFR hamburger chaser would never use.
Click to expand...

I know you said you weren't going to do the instrument right away, but if you're ever going to do your instrument, you'll probably want a panel mount.

That said, I think that if you want something soon, the 496 is the way to go. I know a lot of VFR-only pilots may think "why would I need that?" But the weather subscription is useful for anyone on a long cross country. It's really nice to be able to monitor the weather at your destination WAY before you could ever hope to be within radio range to listen to the AWOS. VFR pilots on longer cross countries also have to be prepared for a diversion, and the 496 is the ultimate diversion tool, whether you are VFR or IFR. Let's say you've decided that winds at your destination have gone past your personal minimums, and you want to find somewhere else to land. The 496 allows you to find nearby airports with a suitable combination of winds and runway heading, see which ones have hotels and/or restaurants nearby while you wait it out, which ones have a courtesy car (or which hotels will pick you up at the airport), and when you get there you can plop the 496 into the courtesy car and navigate any unfamiliar town with ease. No other unit (not even the 696) has the combination of weather data, AOPA airport directory, and auto mode to be able to accomplish all of that.

My aircraft is a tie down, security is not all that great. Someone was messing with my plane just B 4 Thanksgiving. The cover was not the way I left it at all. Another reason not to go with panel mounted gear.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be easier to steal a handheld, unless you take it home every time?

I wouldn't worry too much about the theft issue, just make sure your insurance will cover such an event and keep the plane locked. If there's that big of a security problem at your airport, that's something that should be addressed anyway, with airport management.

Ron Levy said:
You might indeed. However, if you're strictly VFR, the 496 with the panel-mounted docking station is probably the best bang for the buck (including weather and all that), and it can interface with the 430 if you add that later.
Click to expand...

What Ron said.
 
For VFR, the Garmins are overkill.

I'd go for one of the Lowrance units, or an old Garmin if you can find them. If you want weather, get a 396 - the 496 doesn't offer much more but it costs more.

Felix
 
sba55 said:
If you want weather, get a 396 - the 496 doesn't offer much more but it costs more.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

The 496, by default, comes with the "car kit" which is an add-on for the 396. Buy the add-on for the 396 and half the price difference is gone.

The AOPA directory sounds almost silly, but it makes diversion decisions MUCH easier - I really like knowing what's going to be there AFTER I'm off the runway. I don't want to sleep in my plane, so knowing that there are facilities present and hotels nearby makes a big difference. I know that I poo-pooed the AOPA directory until I had a 496 and found that it was one of my most-used features.

SafeTaxi diagrams are very nice to have at an unfamiliar airport.

Speed certainly isn't a deal-killer either way, but the faster update rate on the 496 is nice.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I disagree.

The 496, by default, comes with the "car kit" which is an add-on for the 396. Buy the add-on for the 396 and half the price difference is gone.

The AOPA directory sounds almost silly, but it makes diversion decisions MUCH easier - I really like knowing what's going to be there AFTER I'm off the runway. I don't want to sleep in my plane, so knowing that there are facilities present and hotels nearby makes a big difference. I know that I poo-pooed the AOPA directory until I had a 496 and found that it was one of my most-used features.

SafeTaxi diagrams are very nice to have at an unfamiliar airport.

Speed certainly isn't a deal-killer either way, but the faster update rate on the 496 is nice.
Click to expand...
Kent,

You're absolutely correct and I don't disagree with your point that. The 496 can be worth the extra money. It's just something to consider. For me, the 396 was a better option. I have the equivalent of the AOPA directory on my phone and in book form. I've got taxi diagrams on the MFD. And my cars have GPS. But it can be worth it...
 
sba55 said:
And my cars have GPS. But it can be worth it...
Click to expand...
Not disagreeing with your personal choice, but I'd bet that you rarely take your cars with you when you fly, so the question becomes whether the courtesy car has GPS. Pretty sure I can guess the answer to that one in most cases!:D
 
I went after the AvMap EKP III c on e-bay. It looked like a great deal when I started at $250.00 and I was the top bidder for a while. I went as high as $380.00 then I stopped. I have never bid on anything on e-bay before, but I figured I must be in a bidding war with the seller. I bid $250.00 next bid would be $260.00 and so on. I decided I didn't mind taking a gamble on a used piece of equipment for a few hundred dollars, but at $400.00 I had better start thinking about what I am doing. It ended up selling for $395.00.

I will keep watching these e-bay listings.

John
 
John Baker said:
I went after the AvMap EKP III c on e-bay. It looked like a great deal when I started at $250.00 and I was the top bidder for a while. I went as high as $380.00 then I stopped. I have never bid on anything on e-bay before, but I figured I must be in a bidding war with the seller. I bid $250.00 next bid would be $260.00 and so on. I decided I didn't mind taking a gamble on a used piece of equipment for a few hundred dollars, but at $400.00 I had better start thinking about what I am doing. It ended up selling for $395.00.

I will keep watching these e-bay listings.

John
Click to expand...
My approach to bidding on eBay is to wait until the last minute - literally - and then enter whatever I'm willing to spend. Bidding early just tends to drive up the price if someone who wants it is watching. If your bid is higher than anyone elses, you'll get it for $1 more than the next highest bid. If you time it right, no one will have time to enter a higher bid :D
 
DGlaeser said:
My approach to bidding on eBay is to wait until the last minute - literally - and then enter whatever I'm willing to spend. Bidding early just tends to drive up the price if someone who wants it is watching. If your bid is higher than anyone elses, you'll get it for $1 more than the next highest bid. If you time it right, no one will have time to enter a higher bid :D
Click to expand...

I was starting to think about doing just that. Thanks for confirming it.

John
 
John,
You have received a lot of excellent advice so far. You will notice that all ask the questions, how do you intend to use it, and how much are you willing to pay. In the last month I purchased a Garmin 496 (used) as an IFR pilot the XM weather was important to me. I had a GPS III pilot for about 10 years, served me well, even put in the rental car to keep us oriented as to where we were on the ground. I have a 430w in the panel and the GPS III Pilot was connected to it so the flight plan in the 430 was transferred to it. The 496 is setup the same way. My preference is to display the HSI page on the GPS, makes staying on course much easier than following the line on the map page.

I sold the GPS III pilot on ebay for $250.

Joe
 
I went up with my instructor yesterday and after we got back, I started talking to him about GPS units. He said they are certainly handy, but shouldn't I be studying for the check ride? I had better stick with his recommendation for now.

Although even last night I took a quick look at the eBay offerings. I do know I will be a VFR hamburger chaser for at least a while. That still will not stop me from airport hopping up to Colorado or flying up to Vegas. For now though, I will keep my toy shopping to a minimum.

John
 
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