Got a pixel 2, swapping to iPhone X tomorrow, change my mind

[denverpilot]

Google / Android is far worse than the NSA. Believe it or not, we know exactly what the NSA is collecting on us (everything), but it is anonymized and how it's used is constrained. The private sector has no such protections. Just as you say, they don't talk about what they do with it. Unlike what the NSA collects there is no masking your identity and it is available to law enforcement with only a police warrant, whereas your NSA file can't be unmasked without going to the FISA court with proof of supposed foreign power plots or terrorist intent originating in a foreign country. Yes this has been abused but it's looking like the perpetrators aren't going to get away with it, and it's not the NSA that abused it, but a couple of their clients and the bad actors are getting ready to be called on the carpet. When Google sells your personal data, or allows law to see it, there's nothing you can do about it because you probably agreed to their terms just "by using this product".

The wiretapping authorization and request systems at the major carriers has been automated for a long time. The one I used to work for, hated spending money on humans to check court orders and to make cross connects.

They were told to make requests easy to handle and speedy or face “extra scrutiny” as a foreign owned company. (Bahamas shell company.)

Since they had over 80% of the world’s undersea fiber (at the time), once the powers that be got automated access to taps, they had access to virtually all international calls and data.

Nobody at the company really cared anymore what they used it for, especially after the various carrier’s lawyers made sure Congress granted telecoms immunity from prosecution for breaking domestic Citizen surveillance laws, when government made the request. (There was a reason they wanted that. Nobody is guarding the hen house. And almost nobody noticed that law change.)

The company had fiber to lay and work to do, wasting time checking court orders wasn’t an expense they cared about at all.

Similar stories at the other carriers. Some made it even easier by converting their entire backbone to VoIP and just feeding all the data away via physical fiber splitters. AT&T got caught doing it clear back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Since that was too obvious because it required special rooms in the POPs, most changed it to just being routers copying packets and sending them away via fiber.

Tap long haul fiber, you don’t need to bother the local carrier...

 

[Unit74]

I bet most of those people are not high rollers you are thinking of. Most are renters, those in cheap clubs, own ratty planes or otherwise etc. $300 is a month and a half hangar rent for me. Or two oil changes with Camguard too. I don't smoke $100 dolla bills and avoid airports with ramp fees. $300 is a third of my mortgage for one month.

Don't think its accurate to portray most pilots as jet jockies with currency dripping out of their pockets, because some of the cheapest people I know are pilots.

It'd also be more problematic if we were talking about bigger sums of money, but I'm not a broke college kid anymore. It's a toolish comment, but I'm talking to folks with the means to own and fly airplanes so I'll say it anyway - a few hundred bucks is financial noise.

 

[Tantalum]

The whole iOS vs Android thing is like the high wing vs low wing thing. I think both products bring some pros and cons to the table, and it ultimately comes down to the user's preference. At home we have both Apple and Windows (and Linux) products.. each fill a good role. Excel, Powerpoint, Word, Visio, Tableau, MSSMS all seem to work better on Windows. Overall though I find the Mac OS to be more elegantly designed and more "rationally" built, and excels at sound and video editing, and for dabbling and working in code.. it's like a Linux but for people who don't feel like learning how to manage CUPS drivers just to print a document out

So with phones... I had a Blackberry for ages then when I switched I just couldn't get into the iPhone. The overall architecture I found a little restricting and to me clumsy. One single button, no real way to go back, no simple way to pop open menus, etc., made the experience feel awkward. When I use an iPhone to me it's like writing with my left hand. I can do it, but it's tedious. Which is odd, given my comments above about Mac/Linux vs Windows in general. The Onion really nailed this

So I've been an Android guy for a while. PS, I find the iPhone X absolutely deplorable. Don't care for FaceID and the little notch thing at the top intruding into your screen space is disaster. Hate the iPhone X

I feel like it boils down to iOS vs. Android - the high end hardware on both sides is very nice

This is the biggest difference I think that many people don't get. Android has huge market share, but that's also because while everything Apples sells is a venerable work of art.. with Android you can buy a bone cheap real POS "smartphone" that runs some old version of Android and is loaded with bloatware.. so the typically consumer will pick that up and not have the best overall Android experience. I think many people buy Macbooks for this very reason. How many college students need a $4K+ machine where you could single handedly write the next installment of Toy Story.. simply to surf Facebook and install Word to write your papers on. But that sleek, beautiful laptop is worth it to many people, vs that flimsy garbage they make Thinkpads and most Dells out of.. where when you pick it up it is creaking and feels like a Lego set that's moments away from crumbling to bits in your hand

Don't think its accurate to portray most pilots as jet jockies with currency dripping out of their pockets, because some of the cheapest people I know are pilots.

For something you use multiple times a day and is your information cheat sheet for the modern world it makes sense to spend a little more money on it. I never understood that with cars either.. you don't need to be in a $100K sedan.. but if you are going to spend several hours a day in something (for people who live in traffic areas) don't you want some level of comfort and ease of use?

 

[kayoh190]

Don't think its accurate to portray most pilots as jet jockies with currency dripping out of their pockets, because some of the cheapest people I know are pilots.

Fair enough. But remember that the $300 is over the life of the device, which in my case is about three years. So a little over eight bucks a month to get what I want doesn't seem unreasonable, especially considering how much time I spend with the thing (something I'm NOT proud of!).

 

[wsuffa]

Google / Android is far worse than the NSA. Believe it or not, we know exactly what the NSA is collecting on us (everything), but it is anonymized and how it's used is constrained. The private sector has no such protections. Just as you say, they don't talk about what they do with it. Unlike what the NSA collects there is no masking your identity and it is available to law enforcement with only a police warrant, whereas your NSA file can't be unmasked without going to the FISA court with proof of supposed foreign power plots or terrorist intent originating in a foreign country. Yes this has been abused but it's looking like the perpetrators aren't going to get away with it, and it's not the NSA that abused it, but a couple of their clients and the bad actors are getting ready to be called on the carpet. When Google sells your personal data, or allows law to see it, there's nothing you can do about it because you probably agreed to their terms just "by using this product".

You give NSA and the Feds to much credit. They collect a lot of info that is not well known to folks, and they archive it. No, maybe they're not profiting from it, but the do get it. And don't count out the ability to "turn" someone like MS or Google to provide whatever they want, FISA or not.

Datapoint: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/29/nsa-deleting-millions-of-phone-call-and-text-records.html

Bottom line: we live in a surveillance state.

Another data point, iPhones are now essentially unrepairable. Glass back, no way to replace it, not even by Apple.

They’ll “discount” you a refurbished one for over $300 if you bought AppleCare and then your “discount” to replace a $15 piece of glass jumps to over $500.

If you think you’ll be getting repairs done at the local Mr Phone Fixit shop after iPhone 8, nope. Not happening.

Because Cook loves gluing things shut that weren’t.

The new Androids aren't much better for repair purposes. Not worth the time, trouble, or risk. I replaced the battery in an old Moto phone not long ago - that was a pain in the *** even with the battery and instructions.

Yes, Apple has managed to design third-party repairs. No surprise there. But I do note that PLENTY of electronics manufacturers have used potted assemblies for years - I have a piece of professional gear from the late 60's that has the time-constants circuit potted so it can't be duplicated (or repaired except by replacing the assembly, which by now is no longer available).

 

[denverpilot]

The new Androids aren't much better for repair purposes. Not worth the time, trouble, or risk. I replaced the battery in an old Moto phone not long ago - that was a pain in the *** even with the battery and instructions.

That depends on your handiness and bravery I suppose, but the video I posted clearly stated there IS a difference.

The Apple products are using permanent glue.

The local phone repair shop will still be able to pull the glass back off or the screen off of any of the “flagship” Androids. They won’t touch Apple phones now. They can’t.

Very similar to the iPhone 6 Plus. Those are nearly impossible to do repairs on also but even those weren’t using “permanent glue”. Many places wouldn’t touch those either. But they were barely repairable with a little skill.

To be fair to Apple, they never wanted anyone doing repairs other than their authorized repair shops and themselves, but they’ve even cut the authorized repair shops out now.

Not iPhone but we’ve been taking corporate Macs that were bought with spinning drives to Microcenter (authorized Apple repairs) for years to upgrade them to non-Apple SSDs when needed. They’ve told us even on the machines that they can EASILY do this, they were told by Apple to STOP or they’d lose their authorized repair center certification.

Apple wants to provide a completely glued shut experience for all their devices now. If that works for you, fine. It doesn’t meet our corporate or my personal desires for products I own outright.

Many people don’t care because they’re essentially renting their phones anyway with monthly payments and adding on monthly charges for whatever service plans or “warranties” they think will protect them.

I’d rather pay the local shop $50 on a Saturday without an appointment to talk to a “Genius” to have a glass back replaced in 30 minutes.

By the way, someone mentioned they didn’t like the build feel of the Pixel 2 devices. That same video I posted talked about that. They’re not glass backs and the coating is somewhat crappy on their plastic backs. Nearly any other Android device is built better than the Pixel.

Google went cheap on their flagship product to put a monster camera in it. If you’re not buying Pixel for the camera, you’re probably buying the wrong Android “flagship” device. The other reason to get Pixel is the continuous software updates which is a plus, but you have to know Google didn’t make the best possible phone they could have. That said, on sale, you can get it for half the price of iPhone X.

If you don’t live in the boonies you can also get Google Fi service on it, which is an interesting deal for some as long as you’re in TMo or Sprint coverage. Be interesting to see where that goes with TMo trying to merge with Sprint.

There’s a lot of nice options out there. iPhone X at $1200 plus an over $500 repair charge when out of warranty, knowing how many times I’ve broken phones, is just out of line with everyone else by about $700 over the typical “lifespan” including the occasional drop. It’s going to happen.

All of the flagships are made out of glass! (Gorilla Glass 3, 4, 5, 7000, who cares? It’s glass.) You’re going to break one. Factor it into total cost...

 

[Rushie]

You give NSA and the Feds to much credit. They collect a lot of info that is not well known to folks, and they archive it. No, maybe they're not profiting from it, but the do get it. And don't count out the ability to "turn" someone like MS or Google to provide whatever they want, FISA or not.

Datapoint: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/29/nsa-deleting-millions-of-phone-call-and-text-records.html

Bottom line: we live in a surveillance state.

Correct, we do. But the NSA and the Feds aren't exactly the same thing. NSA collected data is only one source, and as I said, NSA must follow a strict protocol to release the data on a U.S. citizen and that data must be related to an overseas sourced threat. Not so for the FBI or other law enforcement or for that matter private detectives, identity thieves, political activists, blackmailers, or any other entity that would use your footprint against you. They'll go straight to Google and get the data without FISA holy water. Therefore for most of us the NSA is the least of our worries. Just as you said, MS and Google will be turned against us without any FISA warrant, but not by the NSA. It's the rest of the Feds we have to worry about.

You are exactly right, the Genie is out of the bottle. That data that's being collected so they can throw an ad in your face based on your search habits or navigate you around in your car, can and will be used against us. It already is. For example cell phone location data is already being used by police in some states without even needing a warrant, to catch criminals. It's not a big leap to see how that could be misused.

 

[James331]

Well I returned the pixel for the X, much better!!

Also it feels like it’s got some worth where as that pixel 2 just kinda felt like a $100 phone.

Only thing on the new iPhone that bugs me is they did away with the open with thumb print feature.

 

[Rushie]

The wiretapping authorization and request systems at the major carriers has been automated for a long time. The one I used to work for, hated spending money on humans to check court orders and to make cross connects.

They were told to make requests easy to handle and speedy or face “extra scrutiny” as a foreign owned company. (Bahamas shell company.)

Since they had over 80% of the world’s undersea fiber (at the time), once the powers that be got automated access to taps, they had access to virtually all international calls and data.

Nobody at the company really cared anymore what they used it for, especially after the various carrier’s lawyers made sure Congress granted telecoms immunity from prosecution for breaking domestic Citizen surveillance laws, when government made the request. (There was a reason they wanted that. Nobody is guarding the hen house. And almost nobody noticed that law change.)

The company had fiber to lay and work to do, wasting time checking court orders wasn’t an expense they cared about at all.

Similar stories at the other carriers. Some made it even easier by converting their entire backbone to VoIP and just feeding all the data away via physical fiber splitters. AT&T got caught doing it clear back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Since that was too obvious because it required special rooms in the POPs, most changed it to just being routers copying packets and sending them away via fiber.

Tap long haul fiber, you don’t need to bother the local carrier...

Yep. Interesting hearing it from the standpoint of the carriers. From the government standpoint, it got real complicated when calls within the U.S. started getting routed through the internet or otherwise overseas. Way back when, if the NSA's mission was to spy on foreign parties making contact within the U.S., it was easy. You tapped the line coming from overseas. Today, you cannot assume a call or email, etc., coming or going somewhere outside the border is not simply between two private U.S. citizens. The "noise" became extremely huge and basically, it became necessary to access everything in order to try to pick out the terrorist contacting his U.S. based operative.

That's an over simplification, but part of the gist of it.

 

[Rushie]

Well I returned the pixel for the X, much better!!

Also it feels like it’s got some worth where as that pixel 2 just kinda felt like a $100 phone.

Only thing on the new iPhone that bugs me is they did away with the open with thumb print feature.

They did?? I thought that was one of the best things about it. Not that I ever used it.

 

[James331]

They did?? I thought that was one of the best things about it. Not that I ever used it.

It’s how I would turn my phone on, 6s, I’d just push the home button, also allowed me to used a complex pin without having to type it all the time.

 

[denverpilot]

They did?? I thought that was one of the best things about it. Not that I ever used it.

Yep. They scrapped TouchID and I use it constantly on my phone.

Not just for unlocking the phone, either.

Numerous apps have built in support for it, but new ones have essentially stopped adding it.

Various apps with “sensitive but not sensitive enough it shouldn’t be on my phone” info in them I could open with a thumbprint.

Taking it away was just another in a long list of “WTF are they doing?” design decisions.

It’s all Face ID now.

 

[wsuffa]

Very similar to the iPhone 6 Plus. Those are nearly impossible to do repairs on also but even those weren’t using “permanent glue”. Many places wouldn’t touch those either. But they were barely repairable with a little skill.

To be fair to Apple, they never wanted anyone doing repairs other than their authorized repair shops and themselves, but they’ve even cut the authorized repair shops out now.
...
Apple wants to provide a completely glued shut experience for all their devices now. If that works for you, fine. It doesn’t meet our corporate or my personal desires for products I own outright.
....
I’d rather pay the local shop $50 on a Saturday without an appointment to talk to a “Genius” to have a glass back replaced in 30 minutes.

To each their own. As you noted, most folks don't care. Just like most folks shop the cheapest airline seat, leading to a race to the bottom at airlines.

Fact is, there's not much difference in repairability between the brands. Apple has (at least) supported their units longer with software/firmware, restricted as that might be (partly because of the carriers, but even Google's units don't do that well - I had one of the early Nexus units direct-from-Google that I got around the same time as my first iPad... the iPad was still getting updates long after G stopped supporting the Nexus). Can't say that for Android, and there are enough android units out there that still have security flaws. Moto tried locking down their bootloaders against the likes of Cyanogenmod. And it's going to get worse. Wait until we get bio-technology.

Apple might also argue that it's about "security" as one can't access the chips directly if one can't get the case open. That being said, Apple has LONG been known for closed systems. From the time of the Apple II they've been chasing off clones and locking down systems.

I repeat my comment: to each their own. Clearly you've made your choice and have a burr up your butt for Apple. No problem - that works for you. Others feel differently. Fine for them. Can't we all agree to hate Microsoft?

You’re going to break one. Factor it into total cost...

Yep. again, to each their own.

Correct, we do. But the NSA and the Feds aren't exactly the same thing. NSA collected data is only one source, and as I said, NSA must follow a strict protocol to release the data on a U.S. citizen and that data must be related to an overseas sourced threat. Not so for the FBI or other law enforcement or for that matter private detectives, identity thieves, political activists, blackmailers, or any other entity that would use your footprint against you. They'll go straight to Google and get the data without FISA holy water. Therefore for most of us the NSA is the least of our worries. Just as you said, MS and Google will be turned against us without any FISA warrant, but not by the NSA. It's the rest of the Feds we have to worry about.

You are exactly right, the Genie is out of the bottle. That data that's being collected so they can throw an ad in your face based on your search habits or navigate you around in your car, can and will be used against us. It already is. For example cell phone location data is already being used by police in some states without even needing a warrant, to catch criminals. It's not a big leap to see how that could be misused.

Believe what you want. With data fusion (and the amount of trans-border traffic) these days you might as well assume that every federal agency - including the NSA - has access to everything. And it goes deeper - the suspect in the Maryland newspaper shooting this week was identified by facial recognition run against the driver license/state ID database... one of the things made possible and intended by RealID. Passports have had digitized photos and info for years. License plate readers are used and only a few states have retention laws.

A friend asked a group what would be obsolete in 5 years - the answer came back: "whatever is left of privacy". 1984, a few years late.

 

[FastEddieB]

I liked “Touch ID” - the fingerprint deal.

But Face ID on my X work pretty seamlessly about 95% of the time. That 5% is understandable - those times it can’t get a clear shot of my face. And Touch ID had about the same “failure” rate - probably higher in the winter when wearing gloves is factored in.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Why does everyone drop their smartphones and break the glass screens? I treat my iPhone like the $700 amazing computer it is. I think it slid off the couch once and onto the carpet. Cat pushed it.

I don't bother with a case, either...working without a net, I know.

 

[denverpilot]

Fact is, there's not much difference in repairability between the brands.

Fact is, you went off into software things but when it comes to physical repairability you’re just flat wrong, since iPhone 8.

Prior to that other than he 6 Plus, repairing an Apple screen was possible via third party and cheap. Apple wouldn’t honor the warranty of said repairs, but it was possible.

Apple stuff is now sealed.

Getting any other product apart is possible, even if it takes ten minutes of skill learning to do it, and they’re repairable.

Cook needs to be fired.

 

[denverpilot]

Why does everyone drop their smartphones and break the glass screens?

Because people drop things. The screen isn’t the only problem now that the back sides are also glass.

A better question might be, why are phones now completely made out of glass? Isn’t that utterly stupid?

Secondarily one might ask, why does every flagship phone need an add on protection case to use it like a phone? Shouldn’t I be able to throw the thing across the room at a wall, have it hit the floor, and not matter at all? It’s a phone.

 

[Cas Hoefman]

Love my iPhone X, my 6th or so iPhone, tried Android devices a few time but went back to Apple every time. Never use a case, Jony Ive’s designs aren’t meant to be hidden. That ‘smart’ move has cost me 2 screens so far, worth it. Use GP on my iPads and iPhone and like it. FaceID is great! You’ll get used to it quickly, have fun with it.

 

[Sundancer]

It's simplified for me - I just use it as a phone. . .location services are off, mobile data is off, GPS is off. Unless I want 'em for something. I do use it to check email on infrequent occasions. Minimal-to-no texts.

I have a "panel mount" car GPS, much superior to fumbling with a phone; I also have a pretty nice digital camera, same-same. And an iPad and a desktop. Smart phones are like F-111s; they do a little of everything, just none of it particularly well, or particularly conveniently. Really, it's a clumsy to use computer with a radio attached.

My intuition is it's not just me that thinks the Android and Apple interfaces are goofy - the whole "exposed" touch-screen paradigm is awkward. I'm thinking some clever design lad/lass will upend the "as-is".

 

[Heftiger]

I have a "panel mount" car GPS, much superior to fumbling with a phone;

I would venture a guess that your phone is way more feature rich than your car GPS. Does it give live traffic with routing suggestions? Updated roads without expensive map upgrades? Easy searching based off of frequent searches in your area? Etc etc..

There are just some things that smartphones have made basically obsolete. The only win I would put in the portable vehicle gps category is good usability in locations with bad cell service.

 

[FastEddieB]

I have a "panel mount" car GPS, much superior to fumbling with a phone...

Please allow me to disabuse you of this notion.

iPhone X in a dash mount running Waze. Real-time routing around traffic jams, warnings about accidents, objects in road, wildlife, police and so much more.

And guess what? No fumbling!

I recently found the Garmin NUVI I used to use all the time on my workbench. Only use it now on motorcycles where I don’t want to risk the iPhone to the elements. And it feels like a clunky dinosaur, though I’ll assume newer ones are worlds better.

If this was the only thing my iPhone did, it might still be worth $1 a day to me!

 

[Salty]

Face ID is awful. And the way Apple worked around not having a button is even worse. Set your phone down in landscape and let it shut off. You have to pick it up, turn it back to portrait, point it at your face to wake it up. Then reposition it where you wanted it. With the Touch ID button, you could put any finger on the button in any orientation and pop it opens.

I’m also constantly butt dialing or turning on the flashlight when I grab the phone and it wakes up without me pushing any buttons.

I hate the face recognition and lack of button in the X. Otherwise it’s a solid device.

I, as with the majority of the people out there, will prefer to have a phone that can handle some minor water without having to take it in at all to one that’s repairable but I have to replace it if it gets a little wet. That’s why they use all the glue, and don’t allow repairs.

 

[FastEddieB]

I’ve always thought that Apple has missed the opportunity to market a “Sport” edition, along the lines of the old Sony “sports” model...

Something more rugged and waterproof than the fragile stock fare. Of course there are aftermarket solutions, but I know I would have sprung for such a model were it available from Apple.

My personal solution has been and is an Otterbox - not waterproof but does an admirable job of protecting my iPhones - all of which have hit the ground more than once, and none of which have suffered so much as a scratch from such clumsiness on my part.

 

[FastEddieB]

Face ID is awful.

Interesting that two end users can have such a radical difference of opinion.

I guess it just works better for some than others. And be aware I was prepared to dislike it, having found TouchID perfectly serviceable, other than the aforementioned problem with gloves, and occasional oily or wet fingers.

 

[Salty]

Interesting that two end users can have such a radical difference of opinion.

I guess it just works better for some than others. And be aware I was prepared to dislike it, having found TouchID perfectly serviceable, other than the aforementioned problem with gloves, and occasional oily or wet fingers.

If it worked without having to turn the phone perfectly portrait and put it right in front of your face, it wouldn’t be so bad. Try paying with Apple Pay when the reader is not right next to you. You look like a moron trying to put the phone close enough to the terminal while pointing at your face and without turning the phone. And then you still have to click a button - which you can’t reach while holding the phone to scan your face! With finger Id it was effortless.

 

[FastEddieB]

Weirdly, I’ve never had an issue with ApplePay and FaceID.

As an aside, last few timed in to Dunkin Donuts I’ve used my AppleWatch for ApplePay. Two taps of the home button bring up my defaul credit card, and wave my wrist over the terminal and “ding!” - mission accomplished!

A little thing, perhaps, but it pleases me. It pleases me further that ApplePay seems to be catching on with more and more retailers, though admitted other similar services seem to be supported as well and may be equally seamless.

 

[Grum.Man]

I have an iphone X and love it. Been the best phone I have ever owned. I keep going back to Apple because I have never had a bad phone or a minutes problem. I usually keep them 3-4 years and they perform flawlessly the entire time. I am sure Android phones have gotten better over the years but the few people I know with them still have issues that I have never had since switching. I got the most expensive X because frankly it's the device I interact with the most and didn't want anything to hold it back.

 

[denverpilot]

I, as with the majority of the people out there, will prefer to have a phone that can handle some minor water without having to take it in at all to one that’s repairable but I have to replace it if it gets a little wet. That’s why they use all the glue, and don’t allow repairs.

No, there’s plenty of IP68 rated phones that don’t use glue.

 

[jesse]

No, there’s plenty of IP68 rated phones that don’t use glue.

Care to show me an IP68 rated smart phone (iOS or Android) with a touchscreen and no glue?

 

[Rockymountain]

The Android phones are almost as intuitive and almost look as good as the Apple. Emulation is the greatest form of flattery, but why not just go with the one everyone is trying to emulate I am sure that the Android is fine, but flying apps definitely favor the Apple iOS. As opposed to Rudy, I think the X is amazing. Fast, reliable, and does pretty much everything the iPad does so is a nice back up for all your flight apps. I would get the Apple leather case for protection. Just feels amazing, looks good and is tough. Not sure if it would survive a fall from FL280, but I can assure you that without a screen protector it can take some serious abuse in the Apple case. Otterbox is the best protection, but not as slick.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Interesting that two end users can have such a radical difference of opinion.

I guess it just works better for some than others. And be aware I was prepared to dislike it, having found TouchID perfectly serviceable, other than the aforementioned problem with gloves, and occasional oily or wet fingers.

Works great for me

 

[overdrive148]

Care to show me an IP68 rated smart phone (iOS or Android) with a touchscreen and no glue?

 

[overdrive148]

 

[Rushie]

Believe what you want.

What are you talking about? I'm agreeing with you enthusiastically with the minor nit that the NSA will not be the agency initiating a persecution against you, whereas countless other Federal agencies will, unless of course you're a foreign terrorist operative.

With data fusion (and the amount of trans-border traffic) these days you might as well assume that every federal agency - including the NSA - has access to everything.

But that is what I already said - post #39: "we know exactly what the NSA is collecting on us (everything)"

You are violently agreeing with me.

And it goes deeper - the suspect in the Maryland newspaper shooting this week was identified by facial recognition run against the driver license/state ID database... one of the things made possible and intended by RealID. Passports have had digitized photos and info for years. License plate readers are used and only a few states have retention laws.

A friend asked a group what would be obsolete in 5 years - the answer came back: "whatever is left of privacy". 1984, a few years late.

Agree, agree, agree. I'm just trying to point out that - in addition to what you say, not in disagreement - it's pointless to fear what the NSA knows about you. It won't be used against you unless somebody lies to the FISA court and forces the NSA to cooperate. Yes that protection can be breached, but at least it's an obstacle that needs to be crossed; it's a Constitutional protection that does not exist with the FBI or the DEA or the IRS or your local cops, or criminal hackers. We are in huge danger of our private information being used to harm us, but, for most of us, the NSA is not going to be the culprit.

Besides, the NSA has nothing on us that doesn't exist elsewhere, as you also point out, unless we are very good at hiding our stuff, which most of us don't bother. All our cell calls exist with our carriers, all our email is actually read and used for marketing purposes, everything we do and everywhere we go is digitally stored somewhere.

The difference is how that data is manipulated for what goal. There are different ways to build and query and so forth that help you find whatever you're targeting. Most of us are in far more danger from identity theft for example, than from being wrongly targeted by the NSA, and the identity thief is not going to get your info from the NSA database. He'll get it from a hacked health insurance database or the like.

Is there a potential future where the NSA database is turned against us by our own government? Of course and it's already happened. But that was bad apples, not the official mission. Until the FISA court is abolished, and the NSA mission is redefined to include targeting U.S. citizens, we need not worry that NSA data is going to be used by say, the local cop to catch you buying weed. Most of us can go about our business not worrying about the NSA, but we should be big time worrying about all the rest.

 

[wsuffa]

Fact is, you went off into software things but when it comes to physical repairability you’re just flat wrong, since iPhone 8.

Prior to that other than he 6 Plus, repairing an Apple screen was possible via third party and cheap. Apple wouldn’t honor the warranty of said repairs, but it was possible.

Apple stuff is now sealed.

Getting any other product apart is possible, even if it takes ten minutes of skill learning to do it, and they’re repairable.

Cook needs to be fired.

So, Nate, Apple is in the business of maximizing profits for shareholders. Not in the business of implementing particular features or repairability into their stuff. They've been closed for a long time.

And for most folks the decision is not about "hardware A" vs "hardware B", it's about the system - hardware + software. The buyer makes the choice.

As I see it, you're so bent over Apple, you have about 3 primary choices:
1) Don't buy one. Buy something else.
2) Own enough of a stake in the company you can force change. Or get on the board. or,
3) Push for laws that force Apple to do what you want them to do. Right to repair laws exist, but don't specify cost.

That's what the free market capitalism is all about. If a lot of other folks decide the same, then Apple will lose profits and have to change. It worked with IBM.

The other choice - Choice 3 - is to use the government and laws to force change. We've seen how well that works in other contexts. Yet people still try.

Sounds like Android is right for you. Go get one and have fun.

 

[Rushie]

Yep. They scrapped TouchID and I use it constantly on my phone.

Not just for unlocking the phone, either.

Numerous apps have built in support for it, but new ones have essentially stopped adding it.

Various apps with “sensitive but not sensitive enough it shouldn’t be on my phone” info in them I could open with a thumbprint.

Taking it away was just another in a long list of “WTF are they doing?” design decisions.

It’s all Face ID now.

Oh wow, I knew about Face ID but didn't know it was already replacing the thumbprint. That's like how they did away with the headphone jack. Why ditch a good thing?

 

[FastEddieB]

Oh wow, I knew about Face ID but didn't know it was already replacing the thumbprint...Why ditch a good thing?

Allegedly, they could not come up with a way to embed a fingerprint reader in the screen. As such, needing a physical scanner/button took up screen real estate they wanted to free up. Of course, they could have just moved the fingerprint scanner to the back of the phone, but decided to go with FaceID instead. One reason was to eliminate one more physical button, with its attendant possibility of failure.

Personally, iPhones with top and bottom bezels and a home button already look a bit dated. I predict it won’t be long before all phones are all screen.

 

[denverpilot]

Oh wow, I knew about Face ID but didn't know it was already replacing the thumbprint. That's like how they did away with the headphone jack. Why ditch a good thing?

Right?

Allegedly, they could not come up with a way to embed a fingerprint reader in the screen. As such, needing a physical scanner/button took up screen real estate they wanted to free up.

And then they added a notch. LOL.

 

[denverpilot]

So, Nate, Apple is in the business of maximizing profits for shareholders. Not in the business of implementing particular features or repairability into their stuff. They've been closed for a long time.

And for most folks the decision is not about "hardware A" vs "hardware B", it's about the system - hardware + software. The buyer makes the choice.

As I see it, you're so bent over Apple, you have about 3 primary choices:
1) Don't buy one. Buy something else.
2) Own enough of a stake in the company you can force change. Or get on the board. or,
3) Push for laws that force Apple to do what you want them to do. Right to repair laws exist, but don't specify cost.

That's what the free market capitalism is all about. If a lot of other folks decide the same, then Apple will lose profits and have to change. It worked with IBM.

The other choice - Choice 3 - is to use the government and laws to force change. We've seen how well that works in other contexts. Yet people still try.

Sounds like Android is right for you. Go get one and have fun.

I think y’all are the ones who are bent about me pointing out their downhill slide. Otherwise why post that?

The thread is titled “change my mind” after all, even if the OP bought the overpriced iThing that’s been slipping out of first place and accelerated it by becoming a fad device over the complaints of long time supporters — which is fine if that’s what Cook wants to do — and went back fully closed when there WAS a period under late Jobs where they were finally headed the right direction on simple openness of the hardware. They didn’t allow many mods but they allowed the important ones that extend longevity (like allowing non-Apple SSDs for market price or even allowing you to have them upgrade a machine for double the usual SSD price for a while...).

Cook is just the new John Scully with better total market acceptance, created by the fact that OSX is really unix under the hood. Their plan to merge OSX and iOS UI is truly atrocious and will be the death knell for popularity amongst professional laptop users and coders if they’re dumb enough to follow through on it. They seem on the fence since announcing it. No surprise there.

 

[denverpilot]

Care to show me an IP68 rated smart phone (iOS or Android) with a touchscreen and no glue?

A number of them in the video I posted above.