Google is evil.

wsuffa

wsuffa

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Hmm. Use something that's free, then complain when they do things you don't like that helps support them paying for the free stuff you're taking advantage of.
 
In case you haven't noticed, this is the direction all companies have been going for years now. This is the information age, and information has value. Every time you swipe a credit card, make a phone call, click a web link, make an online purchase, you're contributing data to companies that is used in numerous ways. Companies are generally good these days about revealing how they'll use those data via their Privacy Policies and End User License Agreements, but few people read or understand those, and fewer opt out of using the services of those companies because they choose not to let those data be collected.

Personal privacy is a different thing these days than it was 20 years ago. I cringe to think about how much data is collected on me every minute of every day, as I carry my cell phone around and make calls, send and receive messages, search maps and websites, and use GPS services. And yet I've become "dependent" on those services and am loathe to give them up, despite the loss (or at least potential loss) of personal privacy.

Google may be taking a big step that crosses a line...I dunno yet. But they're not the only ones taking steps towards it. Maybe there will eventually be a public backlash...or maybe even if there is such a backlash, people will eventually succumb and accept a sea change in the concept of personal privacy, anyway.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Hmm. Use something that's free, then complain when they do things you don't like that helps support them paying for the free stuff you're taking advantage of.
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Nobody expected the Faustian bargain!

(Faust exchanged his soul for unlimited knowledge and pleasure; analogous to what people did when they created "free" accounts on Google, Youtube, and so on.)
 
This is blown out of proportion.

Google is allowing you to search the feeds you can already see on Google+, just like they used to let you directly search Twitter before the deal expired.

That's pretty much it.
 
demotivational-posters-facebook-you.jpg
 
Jim Logajan said:
Nobody expected the Faustian bargain!

(Faust exchanged his soul for unlimited knowledge and pleasure; analogous to what people did when they created "free" accounts on Google, Youtube, and so on.)
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Hmm. Use something that's free, then complain when they do things you don't like that helps support them paying for the free stuff you're taking advantage of.
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A fairly common tactic for drug dealers in the last century (no idea if it's still common) was to offer "introductory hits" for free knowing that many who accepted them would soon become addicted and give anything for more.
 
gismo said:
A fairly common tactic for drug dealers in the last century (no idea if it's still common) was to offer "introductory hits" for free knowing that many who accepted them would soon become addicted and give anything for more.
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Groupon. ;)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
say favorite search engine alternatives
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I use GoodSearch, powered by Yahoo. You can pick a charity of your choice that's signed up (in my case, I choose Cloud Nine), and every search you make donates something, I think a penny or so, to the organization.

I'm sure my searches are being sold. That's fine.

gismo said:
A fairly common tactic for drug dealers in the last century (no idea if it's still common) was to offer "introductory hits" for free knowing that many who accepted them would soon become addicted and give anything for more.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, the drug dealers at my high school didn't do that. Then again, I think most of their customers were addicts starting around 5th grade. :nonod:

I do know of one former classmate who tried that tactic, though. Fortunately, he got expelled. That was a happy day.
 
Hrm, I thought this was going to be about Google putting their own Google+ pages at the top of search results over everybody else. Been brewing since mid-January.

http://searchengineland.com/dont-be-evil-tool-google-108971 (Hat tip : DF)

http://parislemon.com/post/15664060982/misdirection-doublespeak-non-answers-and-straight-up

And this after they were caught promoting Chrome with paid links (something they penalize others for) earlier in the month:

http://searchengineland.com/googles-jaw-dropping-sponsored-post-campaign-for-chrome-106348
 
wsuffa said:
...No opt out. No choice if you own an Android.
....
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Excuse me? You don't have to identify yourself to run Android.

You only supply your credentials if you run a Google app - and you don't have to run a Google app.

It's not like there's a "Welcome to Android. Sign in to your Google account." You do need a sign in for the App Store.

You DO have to create an account to run WebOS, and to get any update from Apple for OS X and IOS, BTW.
 
Depends on your android vendor. T-mobile required a gmail account to init our Galaxy phones.


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jsstevens said:
Depends on your android vendor. T-mobile required a gmail account to init our Galaxy phones.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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As did verizon for the droidX I wiped it and started over and it wanted a gmail address to proceed before it would turn on.
 
mikea said:
Excuse me? You don't have to identify yourself to run Android.

You only supply your credentials if you run a Google app - and you don't have to run a Google app.

It's not like there's a "Welcome to Android. Sign in to your Google account." You do need a sign in for the App Store.

You DO have to create an account to run WebOS, and to get any update from Apple for OS X and IOS, BTW.
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You do have to have an account to activate an Android (at least on the carrier systems). I think you do even if you use it wifi only.

Per a Q&A from Google:

I have an Android phone. How does this affect me?: Because you have to sign in to your Google account to do anything except for browse the Web and make phone calls, Google will be able to track practically anything you do on your phone.

What about if I have an iPhone/Blackberry/Windows 8 phone?: Google’s new privacy policy doesn’t get into the specifics of what it can collect on different platforms and whether this changes if you download a Google app or if you access Gmail, for instance, on your phone’s browser or competitor’s app. But it does say that if you sign into Google services, Google will be able to collect information about your device and usage.

Can you be more specific about the type of information Google will be able to collect on mobile devices?

The privacy policy allows the company to collect a great deal of data: Your device hardware model, operating system version, unique device identifiers and mobile network information. Google says it may associate your device identifiers or phone number with your Google Account. Details of how you use the service, such as search queries. Telephony log information like time and date of calls, duration of calls. IP addresses. Cookies that may “uniquely identify your browser or your Google Account.”
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ivacy-policy/2012/01/24/gIQArw8GOQ_story.html

I know iOS requires a sign-in, but does Apple track everything you do? Every search inquiry, email, app that you run, every place you go (location services) etc? I know they track a lot of stuff, but everything? And if they do, do they use it?

Certainly makes iOS look better. I'm seriously thinking about dropping my smartphone.

What is clear is that if Google does this, Android is essentially dead for corporate use.
 
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Everyone does realize that this is information that our carrier (or shifting paradigms a bit, our ISP) already has. Not disagreeing with your concern in this case - just pointing it out.
 
they don't already do this? i figured they did, why wouldn't they?
 
ChrisK said:
Everyone does realize that this is information that our carrier (or shifting paradigms a bit, our ISP) already has. Not disagreeing with your concern in this case - just pointing it out.
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Well, no, actually not. And they certainly don't fuse it. I do make the assumption that the government does (regardless of the law...).

I use 3 different carriers on a regular basis (Cable company, ATT, Verizon). They could intercept the data, track it and store it, but they don't do that routinely. And they really don't fuse it - in other words, they don't tie your cellphone calls to each thing you search for to the content of each email..... and then sell that data to advertisers.

That's what Google wants to do. They want to fuse it regardless of where, how, and with whom you browse. And even if the government isn't intercepting now, it's oh-so-easy to get the fused data from Google.

I guess some folks aren't concerned. Big brother is truly watching.
 
I thought their new privacy policy meant they could share that data across your profile in their own apps to enable cross-app functionality (i.e. show call history in Google contacts in a browser). I do not think they can share any of it with advertisers.

Edit - I know Google is an advertising company. I guess they could USE the data to provide you contextual ads.
 
ChrisK said:
I thought their new privacy policy meant they could share that data across your profile in their own apps to enable cross-app functionality (i.e. show call history in Google contacts in a browser). I do not think they can share any of it with advertisers.

Edit - I know Google is an advertising company. I guess they could USE the data to provide you contextual ads.
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While the "additional services to you" is nice happy talk, they really want to fuse the data to more effectively sell and target ads. It's that simple. Facebook does the same.

They don't necessarily have to sell individual data to advertisers, but they can sell very narrow targeting to advertisers. As narrow as you want. And tied to your specific location, age, and email content.
 
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wsuffa said:
While the "additional services to you" is nice happy talk, they really want to fuse the data to more effectively sell and target ads. It's that simple. Facebook does the same.

They don't necessarily have to sell individual data to advertisers, but they can sell very narrow targeting to advertisers. As narrow as you want. And tied to your specific location, age, and email content.
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Targeted ads are OK. That way I don't need to look at ads for Viagra...
 
I don't have an Android phone at present. My droid experience is with Gingerbread on my HP Touchpad - where you do have to tell it who you are - at least create an account - to use WebOS.

I didn't have to supply credentials until I signed into the (Google) Android App store.

With an iPhone or iPad it also asks you for your Apple account at step 1 - to check for updates.

I'm still debating if I want to go for the iPhone 4S or an Android phone. Likely The iPhone. Ya picks yer poison.
 
mikea said:
I don't have an Android phone at present. My droid experience is with Gingerbread on my HP Touchpad - where you do have to tell it who you are - at least create an account - to use WebOS.

I didn't have to supply credentials until I signed into the (Google) Android App store.

With an iPhone or iPad it also asks you for your Apple account at step 1 - to check for updates.

I'm still debating if I want to go for the iPhone 4S or an Android phone. Likely The iPhone. Ya picks yer poison.
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My VZ Incredible asked for credentials right away. Apparently the Samsung Galaxy S basically won't function unless you're signed in. I suspect the later versions of Android OS will impose similar requirements.

RIght there with you. I'm seriously looking at an unlocked iPhone 4. Not a hard user & it will replace a Blackberry that's on a grandfathered BB domestic & international plan on T-Mo. I travel enough internationally that the international service is important. THe only real question is whether I can get the data consumption minimized on the iPhone to stay within the bounds of ATT's (cheapest) int'l data plan? Plan would be to use local SIMs where possible, but have the data plan to fall back on (preferably just for email delivery ala BB).
 
For me it comes down to the likelihood that the gov (any level, any agency) will grab my data via subpoena/search warrant at any point in life. For this reason, I seldom use my GMail and have no non-Google accounts registered through it. Frankly, I believe that Google will just use it to post ads that I'm likely to want. The only worry is that if I ever get to a point that I'm actively against the gov or their after me it'll be too easy for them to predict my habits and nab me.

Outside of that I'm halfway ok with being "anonymous" by being 1 of millions of records worth only a few cents each. When I don't wanna be tracked I turn off my phone, pay with cash, and avoid logging in to any comp.

But considering most of us engaging in a hobby the typically causes our whereabouts and intentions to be documented by the gov & several companies I find it rather interesting.
 
I just think that the cost of using trackable technology and services from service providers who keep automated records is being tracked. I agree that this is scary, but I've read Kafka's "The Trial". If The Man wants you in prison, you're going to prison, tracking data or not.
 
wsuffa said:
RIght there with you. I'm seriously looking at an unlocked iPhone 4.
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Reminder: the straight iPhone 4 is split into two models: the VZ CDMA model, and the AT&T GSM model. The 4S is the combined unit, if that's important to you.
 
wsuffa said:
While the "additional services to you" is nice happy talk, they really want to fuse the data to more effectively sell and target ads. It's that simple. Facebook does the same.

They don't necessarily have to sell individual data to advertisers, but they can sell very narrow targeting to advertisers. As narrow as you want. And tied to your specific location, age, and email content.
Click to expand...

Targeted is so yesterday. How about behavioral pricing?
 
I'm far less concerned about targeted marketing than CALEA and Executive Order "friends".

Every carrier in the U.S. has automated government wiretapping now. And legal immunity from doing it.
 
wsuffa said:
You do have to have an account to activate an Android (at least on the carrier systems). I think you do even if you use it wifi only.
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Yes, and you have to have an iTunes account to activate an iPhone. You can't load apps on (a non-jailbroken) iPhone without using iTunes. You think Apple doesn't keep records of every iTunes action you take?

I know iOS requires a sign-in, but does Apple track everything you do? Every search inquiry, email, app that you run, every place you go (location services) etc? I know they track a lot of stuff, but everything? And if they do, do they use it?
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If you use mac.com for your email, then yes, Apple has every email you send or receive. I am sure they can track your app usage if they want to--probably even more easily than Google could, since their whole OS/app ecosystem is so tightly controlled. Yes, they can and have tracked user locations via certain services.

You're fooling yourself if you think your cell company and handset provider don't have oodles of data on you just because they're not Google.

What is clear is that if Google does this, Android is essentially dead for corporate use.
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That is not at all clear. There are businesses today that have been using GMail and Google Apps for years.
 
gismo said:
A fairly common tactic for drug dealers in the last century (no idea if it's still common) was to offer "introductory hits" for free knowing that many who accepted them would soon become addicted and give anything for more.
Click to expand...

Isn't this the business model for most commercial software?:lol:
 
rpadula said:
Reminder: the straight iPhone 4 is split into two models: the VZ CDMA model, and the AT&T GSM model. The 4S is the combined unit, if that's important to you.
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GSM only is fine.

denverpilot said:
I'm far less concerned about targeted marketing than CALEA and Executive Order "friends".

Every carrier in the U.S. has automated government wiretapping now. And legal immunity from doing it.
Click to expand...

Here's an interesting example of what they can do now (between the carriers, the airlines, and CBP): Link to affidavit. By the way, if you want to read the redacted portions, simply copy the text and drop it into your favorite text editor.
 
Jim_R said:
Yes, and you have to have an iTunes account to activate an iPhone. You can't load apps on (a non-jailbroken) iPhone without using iTunes. You think Apple doesn't keep records of every iTunes action you take?
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Yes, and I think I pointed that out. To the best of my knowledge, Apple doesn't track the content of every search you do, nor does it offer a service like G+/Facebook, nor a travel fare searching site like ITA, nor does it fuse the data from a bunch of disparite places together.

If you use mac.com for your email, then yes, Apple has every email you send or receive. I am sure they can track your app usage if they want to--probably even more easily than Google could, since their whole OS/app ecosystem is so tightly controlled. Yes, they can and have tracked user locations via certain services.
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I don't use mac.com for email. Location tracking is possible, but to the best of my knowledge A doesn't have the capability to retain each map search, etc that you do.

You're fooling yourself if you think your cell company and handset provider don't have oodles of data on you just because they're not Google.
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You missed my point. The carrier has a lot of data, but unless they're using DPI or retaining each byte that goes through their system they're not buildingg a database of everything you do. Google is. 2 separate systems. (and I'm not talking about the data feeds/legal intercept that carriers provide to governments).

An example of carrier data/government is in my other post.

That is not at all clear. There are businesses today that have been using GMail and Google Apps for years.
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Correct. But at the moment that data is not fused. The moment it's fused (and the companies realize what's happening) will spell an end to a lot of that. Granted, some companies have exceptions.

schmookeeg said:
When did they surpass Paypal? I must have missed that one :)
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Within this month: Link to article. Facebook beat out Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, American Airlines, AT&T, Nokia, Best Buy, and Netflix (and a couple of others) for the top spot.
 
murphey said:
Isn't this the business model for most commercial software?:lol:
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They both refer to their customers as "users". :-)


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