Good Harrier Go Pro

Wow...awesome footage. I wonder why he shook his head after touchdown?
 
How do you move the actual nozzles in the Harrier? Where is the actual control located?
 
MachFly said:
How do you move the actual nozzles in the Harrier? Where is the actual control located?
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A lever by the throttle. Also yaw and bank at a hover are controlled through the pedals and stick.
 
Velocity173 said:
A lever by the throttle. Also yaw and bank at a hover are controlled through the pedals and stick.
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Is it on the throttle lever itself or next to it? If it is next to it can you always reach it with your finger while the hand is on the throttle, regardless of which position the throttle lever is in? Just curious.
 
MachFly said:
Is it on the throttle lever itself or next to it? If it is next to it can you always reach it with your finger while the hand is on the throttle, regardless of which position the throttle lever is in? Just curious.
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Well hopefully Banjo33 will chime in since he flew the things. My understanding is that's it's a seperate lever near the the throttle. At a certain down nozzle deflection eng bleed air is directed to the wing tips and tail as well.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well hopefully Banjo33 will chime in since he flew the things. My understanding is that's it's a seperate lever near the the throttle. At a certain down nozzle deflection eng bleed air is directed to the wing tips and tail as well.
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Interesting.

I'm generally familiar with how the thrust is routed around the aircraft and what the controls do is both hover and aerodynamic flight. But when I watched the video you posted I realize I have no idea what you actually do in the cockpit to go from aerodynamic flight to hover, it's a control that no other aircraft has.
 
wow! That was awesome. I saw a Harrier once at Teterboro airport as he was departing. I was hoping he'd takeoff vertically but he did a normal takeoff and zipped away like a jet:lol:

I wonder why I've never seen any at the airshows?
 
redtail said:
wow! That was awesome. I saw a Harrier once at Teterboro airport as he was departing. I was hoping he'd takeoff vertically but he did a normal takeoff and zipped away like a jet:lol:

I wonder why I've never seen any at the airshows?
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He probably took off in STOL to avoid damage to the runway. We had an AV-8 take off once at NBC and he turned the nozzles down a little too soon. The exhaust burned two streaks into the asphalt. Runway was out of service for a couple of days for repair.

AV-8s used to do a lot of air shows. Not sure if they're scheduled for next year though. I know the Hornet demo teams are grounded next year.
 
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Velocity173 said:
He probably took off in STOL to avoid damage to the runway. We had an AV-8 take off once at NBC and he turned the nozzles down a little too soon. The exhaust burned two streaks into the asphalt. Runway was out of service for a couple of days for repair.

AV-8s used to do a lot of air shows. Not sure if they're scheduled for next year though. I know the Hornet demo teams are grounded next year.
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I don't think it was a STOL takeoff, looked like a long roll before he got airborne.

Yeah I've gone to many airshows here in the Northeast but I've never seen one:confused:
 
redtail said:
I don't think it was a STOL takeoff, looked like a long roll before he got airborne.

Yeah I've gone to many airshows here in the Northeast but I've never seen one:confused:
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It was a STO. They start the roll with the nozzles in normal, or at least more normal than hover mode, then put them and the flaps some degree further down before they go off the front of the boat... crazy.
 
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redtail said:
wow! That was awesome. I saw a Harrier once at Teterboro airport as he was departing. I was hoping he'd takeoff vertically but he did a normal takeoff and zipped away like a jet:lol:

I wonder why I've never seen any at the airshows?
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They always do that when they know people are watching. There is a former Marine Corps Aviator that has his own personal Harrier and he does a pretty awesome show.
 
Art VanDelay said:
They always do that when they know people are watching. There is a former Marine Corps Aviator that has his own personal Harrier and he does a pretty awesome show.
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I'd love to see him.
I've seen practically every fighter at airshows except this one.

Saw the Tomcat perform in Atlantic City (2003) and the Raptor at Jones beach twice. I took some incredible video of them!!!
 
I don't think I've ever seen a Harrier do a vertical landing or takeoff, outside of an airshow demo. I'm guessing that they tend to prefer flying like an airplane when in the vicinity of other fixed wing jets.....they are already annoying enough to share the pattern with just doing STOL landings, what with their 80 knot or whatever approach speed.
 
35 AoA said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Harrier do a vertical landing or takeoff, outside of an airshow demo. I'm guessing that they tend to prefer flying like an airplane when in the vicinity of other fixed wing jets.....they are already annoying enough to share the pattern with just doing STOL landings, what with their 80 knot or whatever approach speed.
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You need to come underway on the LHD! You'll see plenty of vertical landings. I've never seen a Vertical Takeoff, however.
 
redtail said:
I don't think it was a STOL takeoff, looked like a long roll before he got airborne.



Yeah I've gone to many airshows here in the Northeast but I've never seen one:confused:
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STOL is Short Takeoff- SOP for the AV-8. You might be confusing it with Vertical TO. Allegedly the AV-8 can of a vertical takeoff, but it needs to have zero load. Pilot and min fuel.
 
Velocity173 said:
A lever by the throttle. Also yaw and bank at a hover are controlled through the pedals and stick.
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Harrier pilots have to really work for it.

In the F-35B, they literally push a button and the aircraft lands itself. The automation takes it from the transition over deck, hover over the landing spot and then all the way down to touchdown.

Harriers require skill, anyone could land a JSF.
 
Fearless Tower said:
STOL is Short Takeoff- SOP for the AV-8. You might be confusing it with Vertical TO. Allegedly the AV-8 can of a vertical takeoff, but it needs to have zero load. Pilot and min fuel.
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No I'm not confused. I've seen videos(I think on the Military channel) of STOL and vertical takeoffs and I've logged a few minutes in the AV-8B in X-Plane:D
 
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Fearless Tower said:
You need to come underway on the LHD! You'll see plenty of vertical landings. I've never seen a Vertical Takeoff, however.
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Yeah I should have put the qualifier "ashore" in my post. Never been on an amphib but I know that is how they roll (or don't? :) ) out there
 
The throttle and nozzle lever are side-by-side. Both are vertically oriented, but the nozzle lever is shorter and has a ball on top (it's also located in the middle...between your thigh and the throttle). The nozzle lever is directly connected to the nozzles...via chain, not unlike a bicycle chain/gear. To rotate the nozzles down, in order to hover, you pull the nozzle lever aft. You learn EARLY in training to always be cognizant of what lever is in your hand! I can only imagine the horror of leaving the bow of the ship and pulling the throttle to idle vice putting the nozzles down for that initial boost of lift needed to augment the wing so early in flight. To accelerate forward, you slowly slide the nozzle lever forward (to point the nozzles and thrust aft). Too fast and it's called "doofing the nozzles" where you'll get a very rapid sink rate/high AOA if the wing isn't generating enough lift. You also learn to quickly pull nozzles back in if you were over-zealous in your nozzle-out technique! Lol!

It's been a while, but I seem to remember the average VL performance being around 1000-1500 lbs of fuel. Meaning with a "clean" (no weapons) jet, you could VL with a 1000 lbs of fuel. Cooler temps provided more bring-back...warmer/higher DA means less performance. Less fuel onboard would allow you to bring back more ordnance, etc. Water injection into the engine would allow a higher VL weight. I've done a vertical landing with negative VL performance in 0/0 conditions, but you'd have to buy me a beer to hear that story! Lol! We practice VTOs (vertical takeoffs) at the end of our sorties once we've burned down our gas. In reality though, if it's pre-mission and we have ordnance, we'd likely do an RVTO (rolling vertical takeoff) in which we can be airborne in a couple hundred feet with full fuel and ordnance. Not exactly vertical, but it's almost hard to tell the difference! Lol!

There's a multitude of ways to takeoff and land this jet! VTO, RVTO, STOL flap STO, AUTO flap STO, CTO (conventional takeoff). VL, RVL (60 kts/5 deg approach), fixed nozzle STOL flap slow, fixed throttle STOL flap slow (throttle remains set at a fixed rpm and you manipulate glide path/AOA with nozzle deflection alone), auto flap fixed nozzle/throttle slow, CL (conventional landing).

I love the bird and talking about it, so please ask questions!
 
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I heard 5 mins max on hover because the water injection runs out? Also, the chain moves all 4 nozzles? Now way for any of them to malfunction and move independently from one another? Thanks.
 
35 AoA said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Harrier do a vertical landing or takeoff, outside of an airshow demo. I'm guessing that they tend to prefer flying like an airplane when in the vicinity of other fixed wing jets.....they are already annoying enough to share the pattern with just doing STOL landings, what with their 80 knot or whatever approach speed.
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60 kts for an RVL and 90-120 kts for a slow landing on final. We usually fly the pattern around 120.
 
Velocity173 said:
I heard 5 mins max on hover because the water injection runs out? Also, the chain moves all 4 nozzles? Now way for any of them to malfunction and move independently from one another? Thanks.
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Yes, 5 minutes of water. That's forever and a day though. It moves all 4, but there has been instances of a nozzle coming loose and not moving with the rest. Never seen it happen, but it would normally be a non-event (unless a VL was required...then things might get interesting, lol).
 
Banjo33 said:
There's a multitude of ways to takeoff and land this jet! VTO, RVTO, STOL flap STO, AUTO flap STO, CTO (conventional takeoff). VL, RVL (60 kts/5 deg approach), fixed nozzle STOL flap slow, fixed throttle STOL flap slow (throttle remains set at a fixed rpm and you manipulate glide path/AOA with nozzle deflection alone), auto flap fixed nozzle/throttle slow, CL (conventional landing).

I love the bird and talking about it, so please ask questions!
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Thanks for the info. This confirms that I probably saw a CTO at KTEB many years ago. He rolled down the runway like any other jet and used up practically the entire length. I'm assuming that he wasn't authorized to perform a STOL takeoff at that airport, correct?
 
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Banjo33 said:
The throttle and nozzle lever are side-by-side. Both are vertically oriented, but the nozzle lever is shorter and has a ball on top (it's also located in the middle...between your thigh and the throttle). The nozzle lever is directly connected to the nozzles...via chain, not unlike a bicycle chain/gear. To rotate the nozzles down, in order to hover, you pull the nozzle lever aft. You learn EARLY in training to always be cognizant of what lever is in your hand! I can only imagine the horror of leaving the bow of the ship and pulling the throttle to idle vice putting the nozzles down for that initial boost of lift needed to augment the wing so early in flight. To accelerate forward, you slowly slide the nozzle lever forward (to point the nozzles and thrust aft). Too fast and it's called "doofing the nozzles" where you'll get a very rapid sink rate/high AOA if the wing isn't generating enough lift. You also learn to quickly pull nozzles back in if you were over-zealous in your nozzle-out technique! Lol!

It's been a while, but I seem to remember the average VL performance being around 1000-1500 lbs of fuel. Meaning with a "clean" (no weapons) jet, you could VL with a 1000 lbs of fuel. Cooler temps provided more bring-back...warmer/higher DA means less performance. Less fuel onboard would allow you to bring back more ordnance, etc. Water injection into the engine would allow a higher VL weight. I've done a vertical landing with negative VL performance in 0/0 conditions, but you'd have to buy me a beer to hear that story! Lol! We practice VTOs (vertical takeoffs) at the end of our sorties once we've burned down our gas. In reality though, if it's pre-mission and we have ordnance, we'd likely do an RVTO (rolling vertical takeoff) in which we can be airborne in a couple hundred feet with full fuel and ordnance. Not exactly vertical, but it's almost hard to tell the difference! Lol!

There's a multitude of ways to takeoff and land this jet! VTO, RVTO, STOL flap STO, AUTO flap STO, CTO (conventional takeoff). VL, RVL (60 kts/5 deg approach), fixed nozzle STOL flap slow, fixed throttle STOL flap slow (throttle remains set at a fixed rpm and you manipulate glide path/AOA with nozzle deflection alone), auto flap fixed nozzle/throttle slow, CL (conventional landing).

I love the bird and talking about it, so please ask questions!
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Wow, thanks for the write up. I was expecting no more than a sentence.
 
Banjo33 said:
60 kts for an RVL and 90-120 kts for a slow landing on final. We usually fly the pattern around 120.
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Gotcha......yeah, the final is all I was talking about. We are like 135-140 in the pattern so that isn't too bad, just the lack of reduced runway separation rules for non-Hornet traffic + the slow final.

Anyway, you mention a VL takeoff with 1000 lbs of gas......what in the world is your fuel load with a full bag? That is like 12 mins of fuel for us at max E at altitude :) I guess it is a small jet, but that motor is big......maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean? Either that, or tanking must have been awesome for you......nothing better than hitting the maiden and knowing you need to stay in the basket for like a 5.0-7.0 or something just to get above ladder again
 
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We carry about 7500 lbs internal. In a hover, burn rate is astronomical...but we don't normally hover for long. Once you're stabilized (which you should be by the time you arrive over the TD point), you're happy to crack the throttle and land, lol. Don't get me wrong, the plane was built to hover and does so easily, conventional flight otoh was an afterthought!
 
redtail said:
Thanks for the info. This confirms that I probably saw a CTO at KTEB many years ago. He rolled down the runway like any other jet and used up practically the entire length. I'm assuming that he wasn't authorized to perform a STOL takeoff at that airport, correct?
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Possibly a CTO or, more likely, a STO. If it was hot, a STO would have looked much the same like a normal airplane takeoff. "Short takeoff" is a bit of a misnomer, since the airplane will likely use 2000-3000 feet of runway (maybe more depending on load out and DA). A lesson we've learned, is that no airfield is as FOD conscious as a Harrier base. FOD is a HUGE deal for us (BIG/low slung/air hungry engine, intake close to the ground, etc), so the faster we go on the ground prior to lowering the nozzles for that initial boost of lift on takeoff, then the less likely we are to toss a rock out in front of our intakes with that blast of air. It was always embarrassing to take a division (4) of jets into a civilian field. We'd darn near shut the place down when taxiing since we strictly maintained 1000 feet between jets to avoid having a jet toss a rock down another's intake!
 
Banjo33 said:
Possibly a CTO or, more likely, a STO. If it was hot, a STO would have looked much the same like a normal airplane takeoff. "Short takeoff" is a bit of a misnomer, since the airplane will likely use 2000-3000 feet of runway (maybe more depending on load out and DA). A lesson we've learned, is that no airfield is as FOD conscious as a Harrier base. FOD is a HUGE deal for us (BIG/low slung/air hungry engine, intake close to the ground, etc), so the faster we go on the ground prior to lowering the nozzles for that initial boost of lift on takeoff, then the less likely we are to toss a rock out in front of our intakes with that blast of air. It was always embarrassing to take a division (4) of jets into a civilian field. We'd darn near shut the place down when taxiing since we strictly maintained 1000 feet between jets to avoid having a jet toss a rock down another's intake!
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Wow! Thanks.

So what's the average takeoff distance for a CTO? I guess it's a rare event to takeoff without lowering the nozzles.

Must be a blast to fly that thing!
 
redtail said:
Wow! Thanks.

So what's the average takeoff distance for a CTO? I guess it's a rare event to takeoff without lowering the nozzles.

Must be a blast to fly that thing!
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I don't remember? 3000-4000', maybe? You're accelerating so quickly at that point that it wouldn't be a terribly big difference. It gets uncomfortable staying on the ground at that speed (140'ish maybe), so I usually squeaked in a bit of nozzles to help lift a bit sooner anyway. Nozzles are set at 10 deg (down) in a CTO, if I remember correctly, to get the thrust off the stab. In a STO, nozzles are rotated from 10 deg to 55-60 deg when you're ready to lift off. Usually happens around 80-100 kts.
 
Cobra Gold 98. Awarded a NAM from MG Anderson (Art Nalls backup pilot) from this one. :)
 

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Fearless Tower said:
What ship was that first photo taken on? That deck just looks....weird.
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Good eye! Yeah that's an expeditous runway we had setup on Ie Shima island. I was up on this platform with one of their pilots. He had a PRC talking to the guys doing practice approaches. Not sure if he would fall under the title LSO?

Ie Shima was awesome. Storm knocked down the WM's tent at 0300 and we had to set it back up for them. Harrier buzzed our tents at 50 ft resulting in an investigation. ADA guys mistakenly shot and hit an AV-8 with a Smokey SAM while he was doing the break. :D
 
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