Go around decision this weekend

O

onwards

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
1,998
Location
CA
Display Name
Display name:
onwards
So my parents are visiting, and I took them flying for the first time. We went to Columbia (o22) on Friday, and boy, it was hot. 40 deg C by the time we got there.

Now, o22 is not particularly high up - 2200ft - but it was over 6000ft DA. And because of the geography around that strip, thermals are always an issue. I warned my folks of turbulence (thankfully, my GF was on board too, and she sat by my mom so I knew if my mom freaked my GF could calm her down). Indeed, as we hit the mountains it became quite bumpy, but not too bad.

Then I got in the pattern, and as I was getting on final, it became quite obvious that this was going to be a challenge. Wind was coming in from 240, at 10 knots for runway 17. Ok, fine, a bit of crosswind.

Except that it was also gusty. The first one I didn't expect and it pushed the nose out quite a bit. I worked the plane back on center and literally as we were touching down, I got a strong gust pushing the plane out again to the left, hard. It was all I could to keep it from side loading heavily... And it bounced. I felt like one more gust like that and we'd be off the runway if I couldn't settle it down by then.

And this is where I made a decision that I rarely make - I pushed the throttle in and went around. I still had pienty of usable runway - 3000ft - but I did not feel comfortable trying to put it down with that bounce, and the thing with o22 is, there are tall trees at the edge... And with such a DA, if I didn't push it in right then, I couldn't be sure we wouldn't go into them if ran out of runway. At that point I knew I could still accelerate in ground effect and clear the trees (which we did with about 50ft to spare but positive climb rate - hot days like that make for sucky performance at near gross).

Anyway, executed the go around, came back, landed comfortably (this time using only 20d flaps instead of 40d, which was my big mistake the first time), and got off. Felt a little silly for being overly cautious, but i still think I made the right decision. Then I discovered my dad took a video of the whole thing... I watched it and felt so much better :)

The funny thing is, my mom actually cheered on that first landing - she thought it was really smooth, and was completely shocked when I went around and landed again. I explained later that while I felt a bit embarrassed by my failure to land it properly the first time, I didnt want to take the risk that another gust would cause us to crash either to the side or into the trees. She said she appreciated that :)

So there you go. I'm still not sure if I really needed to abort like that. But even three days later, I think I did right. What would you guys do? I am going to post the video once I get it from my dad so you can have a look, too.
 
Never a bad decision to go around. I'd rather log a few more minutes to the log book than bend metal or people.
 
o22 was my first cross-country destination with my wife after I got my ppl. Also my worst landing with a passenger to-date. It sounded quite a bit like yours except for the go-around. We still had a great time at Columbia.
 
Never hesitate to go around. Never feel silly about doing it. It's a maneuver, and it's appropriate any time you're not comfortable with the approach or landing.
 
Bouncing can be destructive if it starts porpoising. Good call.
 
Old Geek said:
o22 was my first cross-country destination with my wife after I got my ppl. Also my worst landing with a passenger to-date. It sounded quite a bit like yours except for the go-around. We still had a great time at Columbia.
Click to expand...

Ditto, I took my son there as my first passenger and it was very windy and gusty that day. I landed it fine, but getting bounced like crazy on final spooked my son.
 
I was heading into Block Island in a fully loaded 172 and had about 8 knots more than I wanted on short final. I didn't hestitate to go around. When I did finally land, some local pilots were joking saying "there was a dog on the runway". :) It's not something you should ever try to avoid doing.
 
If you don't think the airplane or you are prepared to land - don't. There is never a penalty for taking it around and trying again unless you run out of gas or are in the soup and run out of electrons -

Every landing is merely a low approach to a go-around unless you determine you can land safely . . .

A bounce for someone who is not prepared for it is an AUTOMATIC go around because unless you have the runway to goose the throttle and get it back into the flare and land it properly the third bounce is the prop strike . . . .every single time. There are only a few aviators out there with the ability to take a bounce and just put it back into a flare and hold the nose off properly . . .
 
Last edited:
If you're landing and you ever think "hmm I wonder if I should go around", Go Around.

Something that will cost you $1 in gas and 3-5 minutes of time can save a lot of trouble.
 
All you do if you don't go around is teach yourself it's good to salvage messes. Good call.
 
Something that will cost you $1 in gas and 3-5 minutes of time can save a lot of trouble.
Click to expand...

I've done go-arounds that cost fifteen thousand in gas and an hour of my time, and it still saved a lot of trouble.

Consider it a noise abatement exercise; saving the sound of scraping metal is well worth the time and expense.
 
comanchepilot said:
There are only a few aviators out there with the ability to take a bounce and just put it back into a flare and hold the nose off properly . . .
Click to expand...
Ha! If that were true then I'd be one of those "few aviators" out there and there's nothing special about my skills. In the summer with changing wind and a bird that's VERY airspeed sensitive for some reason, I do it quite often. It just takes discipline.

That said, if I was getting shoved around laterally as well and I didn't have a lot of runway to spare, I wouldn't hesitate (hopefully) to do what the OP did.
 
My instructor for the PPL told me that there is never any disgrace in going around, and that I should do it anytime there is something I don't like. His advice has served me well.
 
azure said:
Ha! If that were true then I'd be one of those "few aviators" out there and there's nothing special about my skills. In the summer with changing wind and a bird that's VERY airspeed sensitive for some reason, I do it quite often. It just takes discipline.

That said, if I was getting shoved around laterally as well and I didn't have a lot of runway to spare, I wouldn't hesitate (hopefully) to do what the OP did.
Click to expand...

Yeah... I do sometime have to "catch a bounce"... but it does take space because I have to add throttle first so I can regroundeffect (is that a word?) before letting her down more gently.

O22 is 4600' with lots of tall trees at the end, and I had burned at least a third of that by the time I touched down. I really didn't feel like playing the game right there with full seats... but granted, I may have been too cautious in retrospect. I really do want to grab that video off my dad's camera and post it so I can get more feedback. I hope to do that this evening.
 
There are a few situations where a go-around isn't a good idea but baring something like landing a twin with one engine and you've got the gear and flaps hanging out below a few hundred AGL, you're on fire, or you waited so long you're gonna hit the trees whether you open or close the throttle(s), going around is virtually always the smart move when things aren't working as planned. Yes it's possible to salvage a bounced landing but history shows that a significant percentage of those who mess up badly enough to make a big bounce, aren't really sharp enough to recover into a good landing. IOW, if you're good enough to recover safely without additional risk, you probably wouldn't have bounced in the first place. Seems like a lot of runway accidents occur when the pilot is fatigued or otherwise performance degraded and they encounter a problem like a bounce or big swerve and then proceed to make things worse.
 
Last edited:
gismo said:
Yes it's possible to salvage a bounced landing but history shows that a significant percentage of those who mess up badly enough to make a big bounce, aren't really sharp enough to recover into a good landing. IOW, if you're good enough to recover safely without additional risk, you probably wouldn't have bounced in the first place.
Click to expand...

Complete agreement. It was a small bounce :D directly related to the big gust right upon touchdown. The way it felt on the yoke was "wheels touch down right as plane suddenly pushed up and sideways by wind" as opposed to "hard landing causing a jump up". Note that the landing itself was fairly gentle as noted by the pax. The REAL idiocy on my part (I think) was having 40d of flaps in - with 20d, this would have been a non-event.
 
onwards said:
Complete agreement. It was a small bounce :D directly related to the big gust right upon touchdown. The way it felt on the yoke was "wheels touch down right as plane suddenly pushed up and sideways by wind" as opposed to "hard landing causing a jump up". Note that the landing itself was fairly gentle as noted by the pax. The REAL idiocy on my part (I think) was having 40d of flaps in - with 20d, this would have been a non-event.
Click to expand...
You might be surprised at how little lift if generated by those extra 20° of flaps. The difference between 20° and 30° is probably less than 2Kt of calibrated stall speed reduction and the next 10° after that isn't going to reduce more than another knot. IME half flaps is the worst of both worlds on most (but not all) light airplanes. It has you touching down at virtually the same speed as full flaps but doesn't decelerate the plane as quickly making it more likely that a sudden gust at a critical time will give trouble simply because you're exposed to that issue for a greater period of time.
 
I've never understood anyone's reluctance to go around.
 
murphey said:
I've never understood anyone's reluctance to go around.
Click to expand...

I think what prompted this post for me was that crash video someone posted a few days ago in the mountains in Idaho. It was on my mind as I was pushing the throttle in, and I wanted to share my own experience.
 
I go around more often now than I did during primary training. During instrument training you will go missed more than you actually land. So the decision to go around is a good reaction that apparently needs to be drilled enough to become an instinct. I don't even consciously analyze it anymore, if the approach doesn't "feel" right I just go around. There is time for the analysis while setting up for the next approach.

The thing to agonize over is not whether you did a go around when you didn't need to do so, but rather whether you landed when you should have executed a go around.
 
I wonder....

Is a go-around the en-vogue GA safety mantra 'crutch'?

Paging Mr Henning....
 
azure said:
Ha! If that were true then I'd be one of those "few aviators" out there and there's nothing special about my skills. In the summer with changing wind and a bird that's VERY airspeed sensitive for some reason, I do it quite often. It just takes discipline.

That said, if I was getting shoved around laterally as well and I didn't have a lot of runway to spare, I wouldn't hesitate (hopefully) to do what the OP did.
Click to expand...

Well, while we often only see the insurance statistics and claims . . . it takes a lot of discipline and most do not have it. Then, its not shameful to take it around - and not all of us have it every day either . . . .
 
Better safe then sorry.

I taught my students, if anything looks funny or you don't like it, go around.

No shame in it for a student or PPL, now if you're a CPL or ATP, I'd give you **** for getting behind the airplane/ not being able to handle it, there are also a number of strips where there is no goaround after a certain point.
 
Last edited:
If you need to save face making a go around, just tell your passengers that you're required by the FAA to log a go-around every 180 days, and your last one was exactly 179 days ago.

Good ADM, by the way.
 
Is a go-around the en-vogue GA safety mantra 'crutch'?
Click to expand...

No, a go-around is a maneuver. Excess power to save one from one's own stupidity or mistakes is a crutch. A parachute built into the airplane is a crutch.

A go-around is not a crutch. It's the opposite of a crutch. It's evidence of a good decision.
 
Tell you what. Next time it doesn't look right, you just put it down anyway. Report back and tell us how it went.....no, not really. PLEASE not really.
 
Video is being uploaded as I post this... I'll provide the link shortly. Here it is.

One note: I do want feedback, but please keep in mind that what it looks like from a my dad's camera held at the very right of the cockpit is different than what it felt and looked like up there. I just looked at it several times and I can see how gusty it was, and it makes me wonder what I was thinking even trying the first time instead of just going around, but it didn't feel that bad to me when I was actually doing it until the very end.

Another note: every time you see the nose go left (three times before I pass the numbers, and a fourth right as I was flaring, which is where I should have just pushed the throttle in immediately instead of trying to touch down first) is a gust. The last one was a doozy, as was the one right as I was crossing the threshold. It's hard to see, but there was one right after touch down, too, which is what got us another 6-7 feet to the left (the nose was already pointing there, obviously). THAT's when I pushed throttle in. I think I should have done it earlier.
 
Last edited:
onwards said:
Video is being uploaded as I post this... I'll provide the link shortly. Here it is.

One note: I do want feedback, but please keep in mind that what it looks like from a my dad's camera held at the very right of the cockpit is different than what it felt and looked like up there. I just looked at it several times and I can see how gusty it was, and it makes me wonder what I was thinking even trying the first time instead of just going around, but it didn't feel that bad to me when I was actually doing it until the very end.

Another note: every time you see the nose go left (three times before I pass the numbers, and a fourth right as I was flaring, which is where I should have just pushed the throttle in immediately instead of trying to touch down first) is a gust. The last one was a doozy, as was the one right as I was crossing the threshold. It's hard to see, but there was one right after touch down, too, which is what got us another 6-7 feet to the left (the nose was already pointing there, obviously). THAT's when I pushed throttle in. I think I should have done it earlier.
Click to expand...

Maybe shoot a lower approach once you cleared the trees, when it goes to crap, I like to ride the ground effect in, looked like you flew in a bit hot too, it's hard to tell if you wernt using enough rudder or ran out of rudder, but that's just my quickie two cents.
 
Last edited:
NineThreeKilo said:
Maybe shoot a lower approach once you cleared the trees, when it goes to crap, I like to ride the ground effect in, looked like you flew in a bit hot too, it's hard to tell if you wernt using enough rudder or ran out of rudder, but that's just my quickie two cents.
Click to expand...

Yes. Airspeed was ok but I came in lower the second time (to ride, as you say) which helped. But because of the terrain, it means giving up gliding to safety if engine quits. You can see the difference in the video on both finals.
 
DouglasBader said:
No, a go-around is a maneuver. Excess power to save one from one's own stupidity or mistakes is a crutch. A parachute built into the airplane is a crutch.

A go-around is not a crutch. It's the opposite of a crutch. It's evidence of a good decision.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that there aren't times where a go-around is appropriate. I am saying that I think it's possible that we preach it too much instead of preaching 'good approaches make good landings', eliminating the need for go-arounds in those cases.

Not going to debate the parachute thing, but you can start another thread if you like, maybe I'll participate.
 
Go arounds are right and good. You did it, you made it, good ADM.

All that said, there is a lot of nitpicking for this video. Take with a grain of salt, I am a low time jackwagon who screws up bigger than this often enough:

1-If you are approaching a runway with gusty crosswinds err on the upwind side of the centerline. That way, when a big gust overcomes your crab it only shoves you to the place you belong, anyhow. On narrow runways this is not always possible, but this one looked roomy.

2-If you have wheels on ground and can hear the stall horn then another option might be to retract flaps and get weight off the wing and onto the wheels quickly.

3-When you lifted back off your speed management was poor. You kept pulling unto the stall horn sounded and then relaxed. Neither Vx nor Vy are close to Vhorn! Accelerate to your climb speed first, then pull.

4-The last stall horn beep was almost at the departure end numbers. Considering the trees beyond, which I am sure made you plenty nervous, you probably were wondering whether it would've been better to have stayed on the ground 2000' ago.

5-The first approach was a little high and a little fast. As much as passengers tend not to appreciate slips, recall that they are very useful to ditch altitude without gaining speed.

6-While going around on the first approach might have been good, you probably waited longer than you should have to do so. You probably could tell at threshold crossing that you were high/hot. Waiting until you were out of both altitude and airspeed to use your idea could bite you one day.

7-When the camera got flipped around on the second attempt, I winced. Don't scare me like that!

In summary, I am very glad not to have to contend with the DA issues that you do. Obviously these affected aircraft performance. Had it been me, knowing the DA and being heavy, I probably would've tried to salvage that first landing at the one third marker. Even ending up in the grass embarrassed would've been better than maybe not being able to climb past those trees.

I know, I know, bad call on my part. But hey, the guy asked for critique, right? And as much as I would like to say that I would've gone around sooner, or at least as well, I have seen me salvage worse landings than that. Ones where afterwards I beat myself up for not having gone around, even though the result was benign.

There was good and bad here. Good ADM, better than mine on a typical day, for sure. Timing and climbing could both use some work.
 
Morne,

Excellent points, all.

Approaching to the right - yeah, I suppose that's true. I had the wing down and rudder left and thought I had it nailed nicely on center when that one-two gust came right on touch down. Maybe I should have gone right to begin with. But here is the thing - note that after my dad picks up the camera on the second landing and puts it back up, I am taxiing back to center - from the right. The reason? I aimed right that time, and didn't have the gust. So I dunno which is right. Anyone care to share their opinion here?

You are spot on with noting the stall horn. I was very anxious to pick up altitude and certainly that resulted in a "locked" mindset of "get nose up dammit"! Note that I HAD the flaps up already (I did try that like you suggest in #2 above) and I wasn't going to put them down while trying to fly the plane too. Too much. Another thing I didn't do until I was climbing over the trees was open cowl flaps, for the same reason (I was busy).

Edit: another thing that I recall. Note that for the first second or two after coming back up, I am nicely accelerating in ground effect with the nose pointed correctly. With this plane it is more than sufficient normally. I think my attempts to pull up after that were influenced by "what I'm used to" - but in this case, with the heat and load, it wasn't doing what I was used to.

As to #4 - no, by that time I had a nice positive rate of climb and was fully in control. I was actually quite happy by then!

For #5 - that's one reason why o22 can be challenging. Note he diffeence on landing two when i was coming in lower - no margin for error if you do that but you're right, maybe I should have slipped. To land on 17 there you pretty much have to come in above glide slope and catch it on the way down or come in uncomfortably close to the trees.

For #6 - yes, yes, no kidding, now having watched the video I am in full agreement. Funny how I felt different in the plane though, like I was being too cautious.
 
Last edited:
That slide to the left the first time around reminded me of one time I landed too close to an approaching thunderstorm. The prevailing crosswind was from the left, but then there was that sudden gust from the right that literally had me sliding toward the grass despite flipping the yoke to the opposite side. But I was already firmly on the ground at that point, and the gust was so strong that if I'd added power and tried to go around, I would have been in real trouble. Luckily the sliding helped to add friction and the airplane stopped before I was completely off the runway. The OP's situation seemed from the video to be very close to "real trouble". Sometimes that gust just comes at the moment you are most vulnerable. You have to make a split-second decision and sometimes it's hard to judge which is safest. This is why I don't like to fly in gusty winds. I'm glad it worked out for the OP.
 
Azure, yeah, it was jolting to say the least. The plane almost felt like it "blinked" 6-7 ft left in zero time. That's the reason I posted - I do appreciate the feedback, it was an unusual situation and I want to learn as much as I can from it.
 
Morne said:
3-When you lifted back off your speed management was poor. You kept pulling unto the stall horn sounded and then relaxed. Neither Vx nor Vy are close to Vhorn! Accelerate to your climb speed first, then pull.
Click to expand...

Good point. Part of being ready to go around when necessary is developing a safe go-around technique and maintaining proficiency in it. I think I will practice a go around or two the next time I fly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top