GNS530W Flight Plan Question

[HPNPilot1200]

My grandfather had a GNS530W and a GPSS system installed in his plane last week and I'm helping him learn some of the finer points of the unit. Still trying to figure out one thing myself.

Is there any way to store a flight plan in the GNS530(W) without a departure airport? The ultimate objective is to be able to activate a flight plan that provides direct course guidance to an already created user-waypoint 10nm from the runway threshold and then to the runway threshold (another user-waypoint).

The only way I can figure out a way to do what we want is to put a random airport as the departure field followed by the two user-waypoints. Then activate the flight plan, select the second fix, and hit direct enter enter.

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[poadeleted20]

You can certainly put something other than an airport as the first point in a flight plan, but the system will not necessarily make active the first leg (i.e., first point to second point) on your flight plan. It will activate the leg it thinks you should be on based on some geometric tests. Other than that, it will treat the first point as the departure airport (storing the flight plan with that point as the first name on the flight plane entry on the FPL2 page) and show that as the first leg in the flight plan, running from that point direct to the second point in the flight plan. Of course, if you want to start somewhere else, you can always hit FPL, highlight the first point, hit D->, and go PPOS direct to that point (in FPL, you'll now see the arrow pointing to the first point), with autosequencing from the first point (once you reach it) to the second point and on down the line.

In your case, you can enter the two user points in FPL (and store it as a flight plan and activate it on demand in the future -- it will show in the flight plan list as USER1 / USER2, or whatever you call those points), highlight the first point with the cursor, and hit D->/Enter/Enter. You'll get steering present position direct to the 10-mile fix, and autosequencing to the runway fix after you pass then 10-mile fix. However, you cannot get it to go into approach active mode (and get full approach horizontal and vertical steering) this way -- that's only available with approaches in the database.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Thanks for the info Ron. Figured I'd have to activate the FPL then D->/enter/enter to fly PPOS to the first fix.

Thanks,

 

[poadeleted20]

Garmin's free simulator (I wouldn't call it a "trainer") is good for practicing, and OK with the book, but it won't teach you the system. For that, I strongly recommend EFS's Garmin 430/530 interactive computer-based training course, which can be switched between 430 and 530 modes. Combine that with the free simulator, and you've got a powerful training package. BTW, Sporty's sells it for $50 less than EFS!

 

[HPNPilot1200]

You can also download the PC trainer from Garmin
http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3532
Be sure to set it for the 530W after you start it.
I have learned much by just playing with it
You can also download the free video - hope you have high speed internet.
I wish Garmin would make the trainer for MAC's but its PC only for now.

Thanks, I've actually been using the 530W simulator since it came out a while ago. It's good practice, but there are a number of discrepancies between the simulator and the actual box that I've found which Garmin refuses to fix. I messed around with the simulator so much with this issue I decided to post about it.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Areeda]

Thanks, I've actually been using the 530W simulator since it came out a while ago. It's good practice, but there are a number of discrepancies between the simulator and the actual box that I've found which Garmin refuses to fix. I messed around with the simulator so much with this issue I decided to post about it.

Thanks,
Jason

Would you please list the discrpencies you've found?

Joe

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Would you please list the discrpencies you've found?

Joe

Sure. I can only remember a few off the top of my head:

• Inability to track any VOR or LOC course via HSI in VLOC mode.
• Lack of glideslope needles on the HSI when shooting a precision approach.
• Inability to rename user-waypoints.
• MAPR (±0.3 nm) integrity not given after initiating a missed approach. Continues to provide TERM integrity like the non-WAAS unit.
• "LNAV" integrity doesn't annunciate passing the FAF on a precision approach.

I'll remember the other ones later. They're not extremely major, but definitely different than if you were to complete the same scenarios in the airplane with the actual unit. I called Garmin about the inability to realistically track VOR/LOC courses via the HSI and the response I got was that they have no intention of fixing that particular issue.

 

[Areeda]

Sure. I can only remember a few off the top of my head:

• Inability to track any VOR or LOC course via HSI in VLOC mode.
• Lack of glideslope needles on the HSI when shooting a precision approach.
• Inability to rename user-waypoints.
• MAPR (±0.3 nm) integrity not given after initiating a missed approach. Continues to provide TERM integrity like the non-WAAS unit.
• "LNAV" integrity doesn't annunciate passing the FAF on a precision approach.

Thanks Jason!

 

[mantakos]

...They're not extremely major, but definitely different than if you were to complete the same scenarios in the airplane with the actual unit...

Putting my software geek hat on, I'm about 99.44% certain that the Garmin simulator is driven by real life Garmin firmware, running under an emulator. In other words, the simulator is the same software that runs in the actual unit, and not some completely independent chunk of software that somebody wrote to "imitate" what a real life unit would do. Any differences would be attributed only to different rev levels.

Of course, in a real unit, the VOR and ILS CDI/glideslope is driven by hardware that the Garmin software simulator simply doesn't simulate. So I don't expect to see a glideslope needle for an ILS precision approach, but the simulator definitely drives a glideslope needle on LPV precision approaches.

But as for the other GPS-related details, I'd just be very surprised to find differences, or at least would be surprised if any verified differences were due to anything other than differences in the version of the firmware running in the simulator, vs running in actual units out in the field (in other words, if you had a real live unit running that same version of firmware, you'd see identical behavior).
-harry

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Putting my software geek hat on, I'm about 99.44% certain that the Garmin simulator is driven by real life Garmin firmware, running under an emulator. In other words, the simulator is the same software that runs in the actual unit, and not some completely independent chunk of software that somebody wrote to "imitate" what a real life unit would do. Any differences would be attributed only to different rev levels.

Of course, in a real unit, the VOR and ILS CDI/glideslope is driven by hardware that the Garmin software simulator simply doesn't simulate. So I don't expect to see a glideslope needle for an ILS precision approach, but the simulator definitely drives a glideslope needle on LPV precision approaches.

But as for the other GPS-related details, I'd just be very surprised to find differences, or at least would be surprised if any verified differences were due to anything other than differences in the version of the firmware running in the simulator, vs running in actual units out in the field (in other words, if you had a real live unit running that same version of firmware, you'd see identical behavior).
-harry

That's true for the G1000, the latest G1000 simulator is the same firmware as the actual unit, but with buttons around it. For the GNS530W simulator however, it appears to be much older or different firmware. FWIW, the database in the simulator expired September 29, 2005.

 

[Areeda]

That's true for the G1000, the latest G1000 simulator is the same firmware as the actual unit, but with buttons around it. For the GNS530W simulator however, it appears to be much older or different firmware. FWIW, the database in the simulator expired September 29, 2005.

I don't have the W sims on this machine but I will try to check the firmware revision on the unit in our Arrow before I get home this evening.

Joe

 

[mantakos]

FWIW, the database in the simulator expired September 29, 2005.

Try downloading the most recent version from garmin.com .

The version I have here says, on the Garmin boot-up screen, "main software version 2.00", and reports a database expiration date of October 26, 2006. If you bring up the sim "about" screen, it says "trainer version 2.00".

This version runs the 430W/530W rev of the software, and thus supports LPV approaches, etc.
-harry

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Try downloading the most recent version from garmin.com .

The version I have here says, on the Garmin boot-up screen, "main software version 2.00", and reports a database expiration date of October 26, 2006. If you bring up the sim "about" screen, it says "trainer version 2.00".

This version runs the 430W/530W rev of the software, and thus supports LPV approaches, etc.
-harry

Turns out I was using an old version. Going to play around with the latest one off the site, thanks for the suggestion. Hate when I forget to check the simplest things.

Joe -- those errors I listed may not apply to the latest version. I'm going to check tonight and will report back.

Jason

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Ran the sim for a long while tonight. Can still confirm the following discrepancies:

• Inability to track any VOR or LOC course via HSI in VLOC mode.
• Lack of glideslope needles on the HSI when shooting an ILS.
• Inability to rename user-waypoints.

I understand Garmin doesn't simulate the first two on the list, but it still differs from using the unit in the aircraft.

The other discrepancies I originally reported didn't occur with the latest software version. Thanks again for that suggestion, harry!

 

[gismo]

That's true for the G1000, the latest G1000 simulator is the same firmware as the actual unit, but with buttons around it. For the GNS530W simulator however, it appears to be much older or different firmware. FWIW, the database in the simulator expired September 29, 2005.

I don't know if this works with the 430/530 sim, but on the GNS-480 simulator the DB is a separate file that can be replaced with the latest version from Jepp.

 

[gismo]

The simulators from Garmin simply do not simulate any VOR/LOC/GS or com function other than setting frequencies. AFaIK the simulator is just a GUI for the actual unit operating software and as such there's no provision to combine the GPS position with the navaid DB and simulate non-gps navigation (this would require extensive modifications to the underlying software lifted from the unit).

Ran the sim for a long while tonight. Can still confirm the following discrepancies:

• Inability to track any VOR or LOC course via HSI in VLOC mode.
• Lack of glideslope needles on the HSI when shooting an ILS.
• Inability to rename user-waypoints.

I understand Garmin doesn't simulate the first two on the list, but it still differs from using the unit in the aircraft.

 

[flyersfan31]

Jason, do you get your homework done for school???

Kudos to you for finding the garmin problems.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

Jason, do you get your homework done for school???

Kudos to you for finding the garmin problems.

Of course, luckily I had a 4 day weekend to finish all my work, go flying, and study up for my checkride. Though at the moment, A.P. Chemistry is whipping my butt. Back to that full lab write-up...