GNS-430/530/480 Installation Costs

davidm767

davidm767

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Davidm767
Hate to beat a dead horse...BUT:

Simple question...How much is a TYPICAL (rounded in $K) installation of a GNS-430/530/480 in an Aircraft (mine is a Grumman Tiger)

I DO NOT need to know acquisition costs of the unit itself (thats a known and has been beaten SUBSTANTIALLY). But rather the wiring, installation, paperwork costs. If all you can give is the estimated labor time, that helps too (cost can be figured easily from there.)

I'm trying to budget for an upgrade for the Tiger (looking primarily at 480), and all of the boards I do searches on really only cover the unit+install costs and not just the install itself.

Dave
 
On the order of $3K. Variables include whether you already have a GPS-compatible CDI. More for a 480 than 430/530 in a Tiger, since the 430/530 in the Tiger's regular stack don't require a separate annunciator, but I don't think that's true for the 480.
 
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The only thing required by the 480 installation is the GPS/NAV annunciator (as it goes bing and puts a big sticky note over the whole screen it doesn't need the others). I can't imagine if the 430 gets by, the 480 wouldn't. The point of reference is down on the lower left of the 480 screen.

I'm not sure why you need a switching device for. The 480 certainly doesn't need it. It internally switches between it's NAV and GPS functions. You do, as stated, need a compatible (i.e., resolver style) indicator (CDI, HSI, or some snazzy electronic equivalent).

There's a 480 group over on YAHOO which has the installation manuals in their files section. Don't forget, over and above whatever you have to do to actually install it, you'll need an IA to fill out the 337's.

Here's the link to the 480 group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gns480-users/
 
flyingron said:
The only thing required by the 480 installation is the GPS/NAV annunciator (as it goes bing and puts a big sticky note over the whole screen it doesn't need the others). I can't imagine if the 430 gets by, the 480 wouldn't.
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I can't speak to the 480 installation, but in a Tiger (or any other AA-5-series), a 430/530 installed in the primary stack does not require even a separate GPS/NAV annunciator if you use the Garmin GI-106 CDI. See the 430/530 installation manuals for details. Not sure what happens if you use another such as the King KI-209A which many folks have with their KX-155's if they also have a GPS. However, if you have a straight KI-209, you're going to have to swap the CDI, anyway.

I'm not sure why you need a switching device for. The 480 certainly doesn't need it. It internally switches between it's NAV and GPS functions. You do, as stated, need a compatible (i.e., resolver style) indicator (CDI, HSI, or some snazzy electronic equivalent).
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Correct -- I was thinking about a different system.
 
Ron Levy said:
On the order of $3K. Variables include whether you already have a GPS-compatible CDI. More for a 480 than 430/530 in a Tiger, since the 430/530 in the Tiger's regular stack don't require a separate annunciator, but I don't think that's true for the 480.
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You are right about there being a lot of variables.

when the aircraft has never had one installed, you have rack modifications to do, antennas to install, cables to route, tests and certifications to fly off, subscriptions to buy. All over and above the purchase price, that too has a wide price range from used to new.

All said and done ready to fly the approach, you could be looking at $15-16K.

in this case I'd be looking for a package price from the best av shop in your area.
 
Tom-D said:
You are right about there being a lot of variables.

when the aircraft has never had one installed, you have rack modifications to do, antennas to install, cables to route, tests and certifications to fly off, subscriptions to buy. All over and above the purchase price, that too has a wide price range from used to new.

All said and done ready to fly the approach, you could be looking at $15-16K.
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Just for the installation? No way. That's enough to buy one new and have it installed.
 
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$14-16K was about what I paid for the unit+installation for the 480.

If you were buying it new, the general rule of thumb is you can usually get the unit installed for the list price (after realizing the unit cost will be discounted). List on the 530W is $14,195, I've seen it discounted to about $11,695 which puts the installation rule of thumb at $2500. You might add a bit more to the cost if you're bringing your own unit rather than buying it through the shop that is installing it.

That's assuming you already have a compatible indicator (HSI or whaever).
 
I met a guy once who was doing an install for someone for a bathroom remodel. :)
 
AggieMike88 said:
Welcome back! And you're about as bad as Mark Twain!
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Lol, well, if he took a picture of behind the panel, I could get closer than that, but the reality is, until the instal shop sees the plane, they won't be able to get closer either without figuring it 'worst case' and just billing that. Some panels you go behind and they are nicely done, some panels you find 3 generations of boxes and wire harnesses INOP, often hacked through, but still there. Usually it's worth the time/money to get it all squared away and cleaned up at the install.
 
Whatever they quote, expect it to be more. They quote based on it going well. They end up needing to do more work, especially if your plane hasn't been recently gone over with avionics upgrades.

I'll use the 310 as an example. The Aspen upgrade cost about $6k more than expected due to other issues they found, and the fact that the plane hadn't been looked at by an avionics shop in a long time. Lots of extra work. Same for the radar install.

The 530 to 530W and GTX327 install were right at quoted cost, and we'ree easy.
 
Ron Levy said:
Just for the installation? No way. That's enough to buy one new and have it installed.
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Ever stop and think that you simply don't install any thing with out removing some thing to start?

When was the last time you removed an old ADF and repaired the holes that the antennas came out of?

When was the last time you removed the interior to get the old cables out, and instal new ones required by the new component?

$15k from start to finish on a radio stack wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
Tom-D said:
Ever stop and think that you simply don't install any thing with out removing some thing to start?

When was the last time you removed an old ADF and repaired the holes that the antennas came out of?

When was the last time you removed the interior to get the old cables out, and instal new ones required by the new component?

$15k from start to finish on a radio stack wouldn't surprise me at all.
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2006. Installation of a GNS530, plus an SL40 transceiver, plus a GTX330 Mode S transponder, plus PMA8000 audio panel, plus a JPI EDM 930 TSO'd engine/fuel panel, plus removal of the DME, ADF, Narco 121, two Narco Comm 120's and all existing engine and fuel instruments, along with cutting and installing a new panel overlay. Installation on all that including the flight test and all the 337's and AFMS's was under $10K.
 
The "Oh, we forgot to include the cost of the adaptor box that lets the new box talk to the other boxes that you're keeping" seems to surface more often than a guy would think. Didn't they know that box would be necessary from the get-go?

Ted DuPuis said:
Whatever they quote, expect it to be more. They quote based on it going well. They end up needing to do more work, especially if your plane hasn't been recently gone over with avionics upgrades.

I'll use the 310 as an example. The Aspen upgrade cost about $6k more than expected due to other issues they found, and the fact that the plane hadn't been looked at by an avionics shop in a long time. Lots of extra work. Same for the radar install.

The 530 to 530W and GTX327 install were right at quoted cost, and we'ree easy.
Click to expand...
 
Ron Levy said:
2006. Installation of a GNS530, plus an SL40 transceiver, plus a GTX330 Mode S transponder, plus PMA8000 audio panel, plus a JPI EDM 930 TSO'd engine/fuel panel, plus removal of the DME, ADF, Narco 121, two Narco Comm 120's and all existing engine and fuel instruments, along with cutting and installing a new panel overlay. Installation on all that including the flight test and all the 337's and AFMS's was under $10K.
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I love it, I wish we could do those prices again.
 
wabower said:
The "Oh, we forgot to include the cost of the adaptor box that lets the new box talk to the other boxes that you're keeping" seems to surface more often than a guy would think. Didn't they know that box would be necessary from the get-go?
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That is how many companies are getting the business they need to survive, bid it low, then add the over runs, and hold your aircraft hostage until the bill is paid.
 
wabower said:
The "Oh, we forgot to include the cost of the adaptor box that lets the new box talk to the other boxes that you're keeping" seems to surface more often than a guy would think. Didn't they know that box would be necessary from the get-go?
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I ran into that with the KLN94 install in the Aztec. Some adapter box plus an indicator unit. And oh by the way I found another $2,000 worth of stuff that should be fixed - didn't bother getting approval first.

With the Aspen install in the 310, it snowballed a bit differently. There was the adapter box to make the Aspen work 100% with the old Century III (as is it works 95%). We opted not to do that. But while it was there, they found that the #2 CDI didn't work (guess it happened after that last VOR check). The Aspen wouldn't fit into the old panel cleanly because of the old monster Collins Flight Director and HSI in there that got stolen out of a 727 (those make great paperweights), so they ended up having to make a new panel for that side. The Aspen required a backup AI, and they opted to buy one rather than moving the one on the co-pilot's side that ran the Century III. Whole ton of wiring that they found bad. Pulled out the DME that didn't work and associated wiring. Fixed wiring for the radar altimeter (which now pretends to work - but pretty much doesn't - those Bonzar Mini-Marks weren't so great. Maybe I'll find a new one some day I can try to replace parts with). And before you know it, there's a big bill. This time, at least I approved all the work before they did it.

That said, in every instance when an avionics shop has repaired more than I asked them to, the plane has worked much, much better.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I ran into that with the KLN94 install in the Aztec. Some adapter box plus an indicator unit. And oh by the way I found another $2,000 worth of stuff that should be fixed - didn't bother getting approval first.

With the Aspen install in the 310, it snowballed a bit differently. There was the adapter box to make the Aspen work 100% with the old Century III (as is it works 95%). We opted not to do that.
Click to expand...

Ran into that on the Aspen installation in the Frankenkota, two converter boxes required. It turns out the boxes were supposed to be matched to the system (analogue Century IIIc) instead of just putting in any box off the shelf. The aircraft would make a strange turn once every ten hours or so while in heading or GPSS steering modes. Finally got it resolved with the trip to Tulsa...
 
If I bought a Non-WAAS 430 for cheap, is it still possible to convert to WAAS? Or did that program die when Garmin quit the 400/500 lines?
 
davidm767 said:
If I bought a Non-WAAS 430 for cheap, is it still possible to convert to WAAS? Or did that program die when Garmin quit the 400/500 lines?
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You can get it converted. I just had one done, total was $3445. $2995 was Garmin's part.
 
davidm767 said:
If I bought a Non-WAAS 430 for cheap, is it still possible to convert to WAAS? Or did that program die when Garmin quit the 400/500 lines?
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My understanding is it depends on which 430. You'll need to call them up with your serial numbers to check.

We did the 530->530W upgrade this past winter.
 
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