Glider Ad on Rating

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evapilotaz

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Who out there has added a Glider Rating to their ASEL. What was their experience like?
How long did it take you to get the rating? Why did you choose to get the rating?

Thinking about doing this myself.

David
 
I did mine over 25 years ago. So might be not quite a relevent today. I had 2 flights in a glider, one 30 minute ride and another about 3 hour soaring flight where I did most of the flying.
I arrived at Soaring school? Friday Morning, left Sunday evening with my Temporary Certificate, Private ASEL, Private Glider.

Actually just realized i have the Logbook entries in an excel sheet...
Reg Model none DUAL Solo
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.4 0.0
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.2 0.0
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.2 0.0
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.2 0.0
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.0 1.4
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.0 0.7
09/22/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.0 0.3
09/22/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.0 0.2
09/22/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 1.0
09/22/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 0.3
09/22/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 0.4
09/22/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 1.2
09/23/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 0.3
09/23/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 0.3
09/23/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.5 0.0
 
evapilotaz said:
Who out there has added a Glider Rating to their ASEL. What was their experience like?
Click to expand...

I've started to do the add-on twice. Both times I got fed-up with it. I would spend all weekend at the club and be lucky to get .9 hours (3 tows). The rest of the time was spent sitting on the ground waiting/helping with launches. On top of that the cost for the tows and the sled ride down (I think I only had one flight where we caught a thermal for a few minutes) ended up costing more than renting a C-172. The cost didn't bother me as much as the wasted time. If I'm going to spend that much time away from my family for aviation, I want to actually be in the air. It's kind of fun, but there are a lot of things in aviation that I've enjoyed more. Seaplanes for one. Autogyros would be a close second.

Now if there were a glider school nearby where I could pump out the flights or a place with a motorglider, I'd probably already have my rating.

Also note that if you have your own glider and already have the rating, you don't need to spend nearly as much time on the ground and it may be more fun. Getting the rating however...
 
brcase said:
I did mine over 25 years ago. So might be not quite a relevent today. I had 2 flights in a glider, one 30 minute ride and another about 3 hour soaring flight where I did most of the flying.
I arrived at Soaring school? Friday Morning, left Sunday evening with my Temporary Certificate, Private ASEL, Private Glider.

Actually just realized i have the Logbook entries in an excel sheet...
Reg Model none DUAL Solo
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.4 0.0
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.2 0.0
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.2 0.0
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.2 0.0
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.0 1.4
09/21/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.0 0.7
09/22/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.0 0.3
09/22/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.0 0.2
09/22/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 1.0
09/22/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 0.3
09/22/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 0.4
09/22/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 1.2
09/23/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 0.3
09/23/90 2726Z SGS 1-26A 26Z 0.0 0.3
09/23/90 711KR Blanik L-13 1KR 0.5 0.0
Click to expand...

Just a couple observations.
I only had 1.5 hours of Dual in 5 flight. This is where my 2 previous ride (unlogged flights) helped a lot especially being able be at the controls thermalling for a few hours.
It also didn't hurt that I already had my tailwheel endorsement and was used to flying airplanes that required a lot of rudder. I did only have about 280hrs total at this time.
Note the 1.4 hours on my 1st solo, I was having fun but realized I needed 9 more solo flights, otherwise I would have stayed up the rest of the afternoon.

My recommendation is, unless you have an active club close buy where you can easily spend a couple weekends a month and take 6 months or more to get your rating, go to one of the few reputable commercial soaring operations.
They will have tow pilots, tow planes, Instructors, and gliders readily available, as well as a glider examiner that can usually do the transition in a pretty predictable and short amount of time. Usually only a few days.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Mine was three flights to solo, 10 solos, a recommendation and a checkride.

Cost me $400 (I waited til my student loan came in), plus a bottle of Bombay gin for the examiner's fee. In 1985. ;)

As @skier noted, a club operation isn't going to be the fastest route (although mine went pretty quickly), but at least where I've flown it was also a social event.

Paid off for me...got a salaried job towing at a commercial operation that allowed me to eat two cheese sandwiches and a batch of popcorn every day, pizza Saturday night, and a couple pounds of grocery store salad bar every week! They even paid for my commercial glider and initial CFI! :)

Seriously, though, the things I learned have been useful to me up to and including flying jets. I'd have no qualms about recommending glider flying.
 
Mine is 10-15 years ago when I was worried about my medical. Glider operations, unless you have your own glider or a self-launch machine, are social events. If you don't like to sit around and socialize, it is not for you. I don't remember how long it took or how much it cost, but it was about the minimum. I think soaring makes one a better pilot, but it's certainly not the only way. There are a lot of badges to earn if you like to punch tickets to mark progress. Knocks off a flight review. It can be as expensive as flying SEL if counting by the hour. Probably a lot depends on what part of the country you are in; some place have active clubs and good soaring most of the year, others it's a challenge.
 
I started with a glider certificate and "added on" ASEL. Soaring is extremely fun, "the sport of kings," though obviously very weather-dependent and hard to do by yourself.
 
I tried doing it via an accelerated program at 2 different businesses that advertised as such. Both places wanted $1,000 deposit up front. Didn't seem fair to me to give them that much money, then be at the mercy of their instructor and aircraft availability. Seems like they get the guaranteed sure thing, and I (the customer) gets all the risk. ---I'll wait till I'm retired and I can do the soaring club line-monkey thing.
 
Ok the nearest soaring school is 40 minutes away. This is something I want to do with my 15 year old done but he is starting from zero time.

I love to fly just to fly and I want to give this a try. No motor noise, no tower chatter on the radio and very few instruments. It’s just me and the wind.

I really need to do a discovery flight.
 
I started the add-on, didn't finish. Might get back to it someday.

I went the club route.

Clubs give you lots of experienced pilots to talk with and learn from. Lessons were only on weekends when a towpilot and CFI were available. It takes a while, especially when sharing time with another student. The good thing about that is you will get to experience a lot of different wx conditions.

The downside - it can take a long time. Some of the club guys started with the club, then went to a commercial operation for a couple weekends to finish up, then continued flying with the club afterward.

Commercial operations will help speed up that process tremendously, but you won't get to fly in much of a variety of conditions that way.
 
I went the club route for a commercial add-on. About 7.5 months from first flight to checkride flying on weekends. I wasn't in a hurry. I had to do 20 solo flights and I took my time on each one.

Some pilots at my club started with the club, completed their solo requirements at the club, and then finished at a commercial operation.

I belong to Tucson Soaring west of Marana. We have a lot of club members who live in the Phoenix area.
 
I got my glider rating about 35 years ago (I can't believe it, that sounds like a long time ago). I did it at two airports. They both had Schweitzer 233 gliders. At the first one I soloed (this was even before I got my PPL), and later at the second airport I took more instruction (after getting my Commercial SEL) and took the glider check ride. Because my spot landing was not precise he gave me a Private Glider rating rather than commercial. My ticket states: Commercial Pilot Airplane, Private Privileges Glider. Also, absent is the statement: "aero tow only" because they had a Tost winch and I got checked out on it with about 2 dual launches and about 8 or 10 solo (a real blast).
 
Van Johnston said:
Can you get the rating in a motor glider?
Click to expand...
Yes. You will be limited to self launch unless/until you are endorsed for aero tow or ground launch.

The "Aero Tow Only" certificate limitation that @Cheyenne mentioned was replaced by logbook endorsements a number of years ago.
 
We are a club and only fly weekends. With the number of students, to include add-on students, only expect to get about an hour with the instructor. A dedicated person could complete the add-on in 4-5 months. But you have to deal with weather and maintenance issues.

Part of the learning is the ground side, how to launch, how to ground handle gliders and hanger talk at the end of the day which can cover a lot of academics.

Our primary trainer is the Schweizer 2-33 or Grob 103. Solo flights can be completed in the 1-26.
We have a waiting list for students.

Spreading the training over a few months increases the experience with different weather conditions, the opportunity for ridge, thermal and wave. Cramming it all into one week at a commercial operation all you may get are sled rides and never experience thermal or ridge lift. There are a few maneuvers to be completed both on and off tow before solo, accumulate the needed solo sortie count and then polish for the check ride.

I’ve found that even experienced pilots have problems with some of the maneuvers, they need to relearn what their feet are for.
 
I started a commercial glider operation this spring. For a weekend operation, in a area where gliders are uncommon, it's done quite well

Most of my students are power pilots adding a glider rating. Soaring only appeals to a few, most just want the rating to fill some of the space on their certificate.

Soaring really teaches the stick & rudder of flying. Since every landing is a one shot deal...it teaches you to really plan your traffic pattern & approach.

Most pilots I knew who first stated in gliders are excellent in coordinated flight. Meaning, they know what a rudder is.

Glider pilots are very competitive & there's a world-wide contest everyday. It's called Online Contest (OLC). On OLC you can track your flight for the day & compare it to other gliders pilots all over the globe.

Gliding is just a slow decent to the ground. Soaring is staying aloft for a long period of time & actually going somewhere.

If you try it... you might like it.
 
Find someone with a Pipistrel Sinus (not the infection). It's a crazy long wing SEL masquerading as a glider :) It will give you a chance to try a glider to see if you like it then get your rating in short order. I did all my flights in one day but spent a lot more time in the plane to make sure I was competent before the check ride. Once you have your glider it is a simple matter to add aero tow or winch launch at your convenience.

Beware that going the SEL to Motor Glider route will not "fix" a serious problem with SEL to Glider. You will still not be broken of the habit of depending on the engine. You can get the rating as I have described but it takes serious discipline to actually embrace gliding and truly treat the airframe as if it has no motor (even if it does have one). Put differently, the path I describe can get you killed unless you are a thinker.

I could not agree more with all the rudder comments. My glider is the best flying thing I own. Full stop. It did help that I had over 1K of tail wheel when I went for the glider rating.
 
At our club, the Soaring Club of Houston, we have a very strong instructional program, cross country program, and a youth program. We have 9 instructors and 9 gliders. We use the Schweizer 2-33s and Blanik L-23s for instruction (ab initio and transition). We also have an ASK-21, PW-5, AC-4, L-33, and a standard Jantar as club ships. Currently there are 22 students / transition pilots in training.

We use a duty instructor for weekends and schedule through schedulemaster in 1.5 hour blocks. Each student is assigned a CFIG as a mentor and many fly with their mentor even when he is not the duty instructor. We have done transitions in under a month, and have some students that have been working on it for a long time. I was a transition pilot from Rotary Wing and went straight to commercial in about 3 months. Duties can be from a ground crew member helping with launch and recovery, tow pilot in one of our 3 tow planes, field maintenance, instructor, and a myriad of other tasks.

Our goal is for each pilot to continue to fly after they have their rating and strive for the Silver Badge, so we encourage continued development. As a club and totally volunteer operation, each member has an assigned duty once every seven or eight weeks. As someone stated, for our operation there is a huge social aspect. Cookouts and social gatherings after flying, bonfires in the winter, and the pool in the summer. Next weekend is our youth spot landing contest.

Our club is a very strong competitor in the OLC, playing second this season.

It is truly the most fun flying I have ever had in my 35 years of being a pilot.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
I am looking to add my glider rating once I finish my PPL as well (5 more hours). This thread has some good info in it. I have found this club by us, and plan on going to a meeting in november or december to check it out. http://www.carolinasoaring.com/

I plan on getting my CPL as well so thought this might be good for my stick and rudder skills as well as a cost effective way to build time. After reading some of your posts about costs adding up due to lack of flight time though that might make my second point invalid.
 
Training costs in a club can add up. Cost to join, dues, and rental rates are pretty much the same for all members, but for students the flights can add up quickly. No such thing as a touch and go, so for a student to get the repetition that's needed it's not uncommon to get a half dozen flights per lesson. Add a tow fee for each trip.

Once you get that rating you can do a lot of soaring (if you are good enough and conditions are right) on a single tow.

If you have your PP already, clubs are always looking for tow pilots.
 
Matthew said:
Training costs in a club can add up. Cost to join, dues, and rental rates are pretty much the same for all members, but for students the flights can add up quickly. No such thing as a touch and go, so for a student to get the repetition that's needed it's not uncommon to get a half dozen flights per lesson. Add a tow fee for each trip.

Once you get that rating you can do a lot of soaring (if you are good enough and conditions are right) on a single tow.

If you have your PP already, clubs are always looking for tow pilots.
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that we use a Condor simulator to help with the repetition needed. We have a full cockpit setup, not just the software. When used with one of our instructors or cross country pilots coaching, it really helps.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Nsconductor said:
I forgot to mention that we use a Condor simulator to help with the repetition needed. We have a full cockpit setup, not just the software. When used with one of our instructors or cross country pilots coaching, it really helps.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
a couple guys in the club built their own Condor sims. It's a pretty good package.
 
We have the largest commercial glider operation in the country right here in Phx, people come from around the world to soar in the area. Go check out Soaring AZ at estrella sailport, full time instruction staff, multiple tow planes, huge glider fleet.
 
I haven't flown a glider since 1987, so I decided to get current again.

I flew 35 minutes to the glider field to find out they only fly on weekends.
I flew 35 minutes home.
Logged 1 hour and 10 minutes, so it wasn't a total waste of time.

Weekend only? what's up with that?
 
bijanmaleki said:
We have the largest commercial glider operation in the country right here in Phx, people come from around the world to soar in the area. Go check out Soaring AZ at estrella sailport, full time instruction staff, multiple tow planes, huge glider fleet.
Click to expand...


Yes I have been in contact with them
 
Thanks to Bijan for the referral. David, I own and operate Arizona Soaring inc near Phoenix. We are, as Bijan mentioned, the largest glider training school in the US. About 2/3 of our clients are doing some sort of "add-on" rating(Pvt, Com or CFIG). We are just one of several quality schools around the country plus there are some clubs that also do a good job of training. Many of our clients are club members from around the country and choose to train with us. Some advantages to working with a professional school such as ourselves are:
1. Being able to fly as much as you want.
2. Escape to a nicer climate during the winter months.
3. Availability of FAA Examiners, instructors and aircraft.
4. Being able to learn from instructors that teach in gliders every day.
As with choosing any school, it is important to find a school that has a good reputation, safety record and availability that fits your schedule.

Glider flying is a blast. I'm certain that you will enjoy the training process, learn some great skills, and meet some wonderful people too.
 
Jason Stephens said:
Thanks to Bijan for the referral. David, I own and operate Arizona Soaring inc near Phoenix. We are, as Bijan mentioned, the largest glider training school in the US. About 2/3 of our clients are doing some sort of "add-on" rating(Pvt, Com or CFIG). We are just one of several quality schools around the country plus there are some clubs that also do a good job of training. Many of our clients are club members from around the country and choose to train with us. Some advantages to working with a professional school such as ourselves are:
1. Being able to fly as much as you want.
2. Escape to a nicer climate during the winter months.
3. Availability of FAA Examiners, instructors and aircraft.
4. Being able to learn from instructors that teach in gliders every day.
As with choosing any school, it is important to find a school that has a good reputation, safety record and availability that fits your schedule.

Glider flying is a blast. I'm certain that you will enjoy the training process, learn some great skills, and meet some wonderful people too.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, rough ballpark figure, how long would it take for a CFI-G add on?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Might be interesting. Would have to deal with the airline traffic but there are slow times.
Click to expand...
Cross countries might be interesting.

Landing out might would get you a headline or three.
 
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