Giving Up the Ghost

spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
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Ben
I trained in a 6-pack, no (IFR) GPS aircraft.

NDB approaches with holds were my nemesis.

I had roughly 20 hours of actual when I took the ride.

Now, I rent an SR20 with Perspective. I am spoiled like ****. But I only use the AP in cruise, because I actually like to fly airplanes.

The environment these days, though, seems to be to only fly your takeoffs and landings; otherwise you give George the controls.

Am I wrong in thinking that flying mostly with the AP is extremely boring?
 
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No, you're not. You're a pilot. But it's nice to have the automation as a backup.
 
All IFR and all VFR takeoff climb cruise land stuff is boring. At least to me, also to millions of others who would rather drive a jetski in circles. I think that one of the problems with ga promotion is we talk about fun stuff, then when someone walks in the door it becomes 'put on this hood and fly by the dials/tv' they can do the same thing at home on their computer.
 
LDJones said:
No, you're not. You're a pilot. But it's nice to have the automation as a backup.
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I think my wording was bad. I've changed it. What I meant was, isn't it boring to "fly" mostly using the AP?
 
spiderweb said:
I think my wording was bad. I've changed it. What I meant was, isn't it boring to "fly" mostly using the AP?
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I always thought if you used the autopilot often you're mostly riding :dunno:

Isn't it used to take pressure off the pilot on a long flight or to enable the pilot to multitask or maybe preserve energy?
 
spiderweb said:
I trained in a 6-pack, no (IFR) GPS aircraft.

NDB approaches with holds were my nemesis.

I had roughly 20 hours of actual when I took the ride.

Now, I rent an SR20 with Perspective. I am spoiled like ****. But I only use the AP in cruise, because I actually like to fly airplanes.

The environment these days, though, seems to be to only fly your takeoffs and landings; otherwise you give George the controls.

Am I wrong in thinking that flying mostly with the AP is extremely boring?
Click to expand...
The AP is nice if you want to see nice, straight lines on Flight Aware so you can brag how good of a pilot you are!
 
If autopilots are evil, why do all new cars come equipped with cruise control?
 
wabower said:
If autopilots are evil, why do all new cars come equipped with cruise control?
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Yup. If you are doing boring straight level it is nuts to not let the box fly. Id love an auto drive car.
 
I use the A/P mostly to relieve the tedium during long flights and to give myself time to focus on other tasks. One of the times I'm almost religious about using it is while leaning the engine -- I want to find peak EGT as quickly and as accurately as possible, so I don't want the distraction of holding heading and altitude while I'm doing it.

I've only flown in IMC alone and with an instructor so far, and always for proficiency, so letting George fly an approach in IMC would defeat the whole purpose. I can't imagine too many circumstances where I'd do that. Really flying an approach in IMC is an opportunity too valuable to waste.

Besides, unless it's an ILS or RNAV approach and I'm already established on final, my A/P really isn't up to the task. But when those conditions are met, it does a pretty good job and I think I'd probably let it take the controls if I had pax with me.

p.s. why is this thread titled "giving up the ghost"? I thought you were talking about quitting flying or some other extreme measure!
 
The reason people buy planes is because they think they might travel. Some of us do, and have benefitted greatly as a result. Most pilots don't like to just sit there and steer for hours on end while they cover the ground at airplane speed rather than car speed. Your half-baked idea of trying to sell airplanes to fly around and look at stuff or cut holes in the sky, or thinking that soaring is the answer is the quickest way to kill GA deader than a smelt.

ClimbnSink said:
Yup. If you are doing boring straight level it is nuts to not let the box fly. Id love an auto drive car.
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spiderweb said:
I trained in a 6-pack, no (IFR) GPS aircraft.

NDB approaches with holds were my nemesis.

I had roughly 20 hours of actual when I took the ride.

Now, I rent an SR20 with Perspective. I am spoiled like ****. But I only use the AP in cruise, because I actually like to fly airplanes.

The environment these days, though, seems to be to only fly your takeoffs and landings; otherwise you give George the controls.

Am I wrong in thinking that flying mostly with the AP is extremely boring?
Click to expand...

I did years of IFR with a 1st gen GPS, a 6 pack but no ADF. Nothing like single pilot IFR without an AP but it was all before FlightAware so who knew.

Now I let Tiger fly it from 1000 AGL after TO to as close to decision height as I can - even in severe clear (except for proficiency work). I love it. I did all my yanking and banking in sailplanes and taildraggers. Now it's all about completing the mission as "professionally" as possible, whatever that means. I need a mission to launch it so I work hard at making up missions.

The big difference is flying a plane and a panel that I built. I just sit there amazed at having everything work as intended.

Whatever floats your boat is my take.
 
azure said:
. . .

p.s. why is this thread titled "giving up the ghost"? I thought you were talking about quitting flying or some other extreme measure!
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Sorry--it might have been too extreme!
 
Bill Watson said:
. . . .

The big difference is flying a plane and a panel that I built. I just sit there amazed at having everything work as intended.

Whatever floats your boat is my take.
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Well. That is really a different perspective, and I completely understand. After all, you built the system, so you do get to decide when to turn it on and off, and be very deservedly proud of the basis for that decision! :)
 
spiderweb said:
I trained in a 6-pack, no (IFR) GPS aircraft.

NDB approaches with holds were my nemesis.

I had roughly 20 hours of actual when I took the ride.

Now, I rent an SR20 with Perspective. I am spoiled like ****. But I only use the AP in cruise, because I actually like to fly airplanes.

The environment these days, though, seems to be to only fly your takeoffs and landings; otherwise you give George the controls.

Am I wrong in thinking that flying mostly with the AP is extremely boring?
Click to expand...

For it would depend on the airplane. Something like the Lancair ES with it's very heavy control pressure pretty much requires the AP in cruise. The cherokee 140 I had was perfectly fine to fly by hand and I did when VFR. Once I added the AP to the 140, I would use the AP a lot when IFR, but almost never VFR.

For me, flying is about flying, not the destination, so yeah, I want to hand-fly.
 
As pointed out by others, the AP, like cruise control, reduces the tedium on long trips, helping keep you sharp for the phase of flight that accounts for the vast majority of accidents...the landing.

It also helps keep your head out of the cockpit looking for traffic...and enjoying the spectacular views only we lucky few get to see on a regular basis.
 
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AP's allow more time for texting and playing word games. ;)

I didn't install one in the RV-12. I wire for it and install the brackets because it is easy to do during construction, but I built this plane for flights under 200 miles. Hand flying is fine. I love to fly.

I have flown this plane to Florida and back twice, no AP. Shocking that an LSA even made it that far. ;)
 
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I will say that the cruise portion of a long cross country is boring no matter who is flying the plane. With the AP keeping track of the course you do get to do other things like look around more and check charts and things for stuff ahead.
 
ClimbnSink said:
All IFR and all VFR takeoff climb cruise land stuff is boring. At least to me, also to millions of others who would rather drive a jetski in circles. I think that one of the problems with ga promotion is we talk about fun stuff, then when someone walks in the door it becomes 'put on this hood and fly by the dials/tv' they can do the same thing at home on their computer.
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My computer can't take me from raleigh to nashville in two hours.

I will say that the cruise portion of a long cross country is boring no matter who is flying the plane. With the AP keeping track of the course you do get to do other things like look around more and check charts and things for stuff ahead.
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Driving on the highway sucks more. And the cruise portion is definitely not that boring. Usually it only lasts an hour or three anyway.
 
KeithASanford said:
I always thought if you used the autopilot often you're mostly riding :dunno:

Isn't it used to take pressure off the pilot on a long flight or to enable the pilot to multitask or maybe preserve energy?
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I agree. During instrument training, it was a God send. trying to keep the plane straight and level while changing frequencies and loading another approach is hard when you're new at it.
 
jtheune said:
I will say that the cruise portion of a long cross country is boring no matter who is flying the plane.
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Pretty much so, unless there is something interesting to look at outside. If you're using the airplane as a transportation tool, boring is good. The thing is, that many of us want the airplane to be two things at once, a transportation tool and a fun toy. Everything is a compromise between those two ideas.
 
jtheune said:
I will say that the cruise portion of a long cross country is boring no matter who is flying the plane. With the AP keeping track of the course you do get to do other things like look around more and check charts and things for stuff ahead.
Click to expand...

I can honestly say I have never been bored flying. It is always amazing to me, every flight, every takeoff and landing. I am still amazed that I built a machine that flies and takes me where ever I want to go. It is very satisfying and fulfilling to fly something you built.
 
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wabower said:
If autopilots are evil, why do all new cars come equipped with cruise control?
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Trim and throttle lock on an airplane. Cruise control doesn't keep me on the road. If I had an AP in the plane, I'd probably fall asleep.
 
GA doesnt need my help to smell like dead fish. Why do people start flying, is it th thought that handling a plane would be fun or is it the idea of getting a personal transporter machine? Both are probably a disappointment to most people, GA planes aren't that much fun to fly and around here at least the trvel utility in lots of situations ain't all that great.
wabower said:
The reason people buy planes is because they think they might travel. Some of us do, and have benefitted greatly as a result. Most pilots don't like to just sit there and steer for hours on end while they cover the ground at airplane speed rather than car speed. Your half-baked idea of trying to sell airplanes to fly around and look at stuff or cut holes in the sky, or thinking that soaring is the answer is the quickest way to kill GA deader than a smelt.
Click to expand...
 
Everskyward said:
Pretty much so, unless there is something interesting to look at outside. If you're using the airplane as a transportation tool, boring is good. The thing is, that many of us want the airplane to be two things at once, a transportation tool and a fun toy. Everything is a compromise between those two ideas.
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For me, the joy is flying... but the kind of flying many others would consider boring. I don't fly for any adrenaline rush.
 
Bob Noel said:
For me, the joy is flying... but the kind of flying many others would consider boring. I don't fly for any adrenaline rush.
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That's another thing. People fly for many different reasons.
 
ClimbnSink said:
GA doesnt need my help to smell like dead fish. Why do people start flying, is it th thought that handling a plane would be fun or is it the idea of getting a personal transporter machine? Both are probably a disappointment to most people, GA planes aren't that much fun to fly and around here at least the trvel utility in lots of situations ain't all that great.
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There is a reason they call it " The RV Grin". Go for a ride in an RV.
 
So is imc without an AP a bad idea for even something like a 300nm trip...in something like pa28-180? ( please excuse my naive question, barely finishing up PPL)
 
Yessir, I have just plane you need. It's only $75,000 and you can really have fun flying it around your airport and maybe even over tot he next town for breakfast on Saturday. Not only that, you can fly over your neighborhood and look at your house from every possible angle. If you'll OK this contract for me, I'll get the guys busy detailing it out for you and have it ready after lunch.

ClimbnSink said:
GA doesnt need my help to smell like dead fish. Why do people start flying, is it th thought that handling a plane would be fun or is it the idea of getting a personal transporter machine? Both are probably a disappointment to most people, GA planes aren't that much fun to fly and around here at least the trvel utility in lots of situations ain't all that great.
Click to expand...
 
cocolos said:
So is imc without an AP a bad idea for even something like a 300nm trip...in something like pa28-180? ( please excuse my naive question, barely finishing up PPL)
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No. It's only a bad idea for people who have no confidence in their abilities. I've done a 5.3 hr trip in a PA28-180, (one stop) and was solid IMC for 3.5 of it. No autopilot.
 
Whattya got for 75k that I can fly in the clouds here in New England all winter long?
 
cocolos said:
So is imc without an AP a bad idea for even something like a 300nm trip...in something like pa28-180? ( please excuse my naive question, barely finishing up PPL)
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Not at all. You have to be proficient (which you should be anyway) in instrument flying, and you have to be aware of the potential fatigue issues on longer trips, but a 3-hour trip hand-flying in IMC shouldn't be considered "a bad idea."
 
I see. Well hopefully not long after my PPL I can start my IFR training.
 
cocolos said:
So is imc without an AP a bad idea for even something like a 300nm trip...in something like pa28-180? ( please excuse my naive question, barely finishing up PPL)
Click to expand...

Not necessarily...it's been down countless times before.
 
straight and level for a couple of hours gets boring so I turn the AP on. On shorter 30 minute legs I hand fly even if its imc, good practice. I try to do half my approaches by hand and the others coupled. Comanding an aircraft through electronic control systems is as big part of flying as is manually flying.
 
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