Getting the Double I

EdFred

EdFred

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How difficult is the CFI-IA ride? I know, I know. How heavy is a stone?

I'm just looking down the runway of progression, and figured since the Commercial is only ~10 hours of training away, maybe getting a CFI card might be worth it just for the "oooh" factor from non-pilots. (OK, not just for that reason, I really just want to be able to put it on my sigline :D ) Of course, with the IA already, might as well make the CFI certificate match. I've taught martial arts for a spell, so I know the difficulties of trying to explain something to craniu-granite.

TSA BS aside, is there a reason a lot of commercial pilots don't have the CFI/CFI-IA certificate that I am not aware of?
 
N2212R said:
How difficult is the CFI-IA ride? I know, I know. How heavy is a stone?

I'm just looking down the runway of progression, and figured since the Commercial is only ~10 hours of training away, maybe getting a CFI card might be worth it just for the "oooh" factor from non-pilots. (OK, not just for that reason, I really just want to be able to put it on my sigline :D ) Of course, with the IA already, might as well make the CFI certificate match. I've taught martial arts for a spell, so I know the difficulties of trying to explain something to craniu-granite.

TSA BS aside, is there a reason a lot of commercial pilots don't have the CFI/CFI-IA certificate that I am not aware of?
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Ed my advice would be to keep it simple. Think CFIA only, for starters. Do add-ons later.The CFIA ride and oral is grueling enough as is- and will take a WHOLE DAY. I known, I know, Hobbes can maybe do more....but it is exhausting.
 
bbchien said:
Ed my advice would be to keep it simple. Think CFIA only, for starters. Do add-ons later.The CFIA ride and oral is grueling enough as is- and will take a WHOLE DAY. I known, I know, Hobbes can maybe do more....but it is exhausting.
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No, No, No. Not on the same day as the commercial ride. Even I know that.

Oh wait. Nevermind. I thought you could do the CFI / II ride as one.
 
N2212R said:
How difficult is the CFI-IA ride? I know, I know. How heavy is a stone?
Click to expand...

Relative heavy stones about covers the concept.

I did both the CFI and the CFI-IA using intensive courses (I moved away from home for the duration). The initial CFI for me was some serious prep work over the course of a month or so to get three writtens out of the way and my head generally filled and in the right mode. I then did 8 consecutive days of 8 AM to 6 PM mixed flying and classroom non-stop except for a mercy dinner offered up by Lance F. Each day's training was followed by homework immediately after class until ~11 PM every night (including Lance F. dinner night). The flying was done in my Mooney which, since I know that airplane very well, the basic flying skills and systems knowledge required no time at all. The initial CFI checkride was no less brutal. The oral started at 9 AM and ended at ~5 PM with a 1 hour lunch break; the flying went from ~5 PM until ~6:30 or 7 PM.

By comparison, the CFI-IA "stone" weighed a whole lot less. I did the intensive training route for the CFI-ME and the CFI-IA in a combined training. I started training Friday morning at 8 AM. I took both checkrides starting on Sunday at 8 AM. Yes, you read that correctly, two full days training and then two checkrides in one day. Yes, I still had two days of the 8 AM to 6 PM training stint, and yes, I still spent each evening cramming information and making lesson plans, but compared to the initial CFI process the CFI-IA (and MEI) was a relative cake walk. The checkrides were much easier (and shorter), too.
 
Ugh. Now I see why relatively few get the CFI. But if it's that intensive, how do some of these boneheads make it through?
 
N2212R said:
Ugh. Now I see why relatively few get the CFI. But if it's that intensive, how do some of these boneheads make it through?
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The initial CFI checkride really is brutal. For starters, the initial pass rate is something like 30%. I suspect the dismal state of affairs to which you comment is due to:

1. The PTS is a minimum standard--a not too impressive one at that.
2. Even a blind squirrel may find a nut eventually.
 
Umm, I think back to a long, dark period of toil and misery... I try not to remember.

-Ryan
(5 CFI ratings)
 
N2212R said:
Ugh. Now I see why relatively few get the CFI. But if it's that intensive, how do some of these boneheads make it through?
Click to expand...

There probably are some true 'boneheads' in the bunch, but for the most part I think the CFI ranks are composed of earnest, eager-to-succeed young pilots who only have a few hundred hours of experience under their belt. It's not their fault, it's just the way our system works and it's not likely to change. CFI will always be an entry-level way into professional aviation.

It's similar to college sports... your best athletes eventually graduate and you have to make do with your young recruits. Most CFIs graduate too - to jobs which allow them to feed their families. Other than that, you have part-time and hobbyist flight instructors, and a few died-in-the-wool career folks who've managed to either carve out a specific niche, or somehow make do as career freelance flight instructors. If they're good, they probably command a higher price than the low-time guys, but some people on the message boards have expressed outrage over a CFI asking for $50+/hr. Speaking for myself, I can't understand that sentiment. People don't blink at paying a high-powered attorney or experienced surgeon for delicate work; flight instructors deal in a specialized and risky field, too. If someone's good, and in demand, he should charge more.

Back to your original question: they get through by trying multiple times, or studying intently to pass the practical exam. A checkride is a one-time event that provides a lifetime of privileges. Ratings and certificates don't mean anything other than that said person passed a test on a given day under certain circumstances, so no one should get too hot and bothered when they find out that some schmoe holds an ATP certificate. The proof is in their actual teaching ability as expressed in the aircraft and in front of the whiteboard, and their daily vocation.

-Ryan
 
Ryan Ferguson said:
The proof is in their actual teaching ability as expressed in the aircraft and in front of the whiteboard, and their daily vocation.-Ryan
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And as expressed by the number of pilots vs. the number of airmen that they produce/mentor/educate. A pilot is a technician. An Airman (or woman) has judgement and makes good decisions.
 
bbchien said:
And as expressed by the number of pilots vs. the number of airmen that they produce/mentor/educate. A pilot is a technician. An Airman (or woman) has judgement and makes good decisions.
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Airman vs. pilot... I like it!
 
Ryan Ferguson said:
Airman vs. pilot... I like it!
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Anybody recall the name Shane Osborn? He was a young full bar LT on 4/4/01 when he figured out what was necessary to land/control a crippled P3. And he executed the landing. In China.

Airman. His crew returned uninjured to the States. The pilot of the F8 is presumed to have been eaten by sharks.
 
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I'd be willing to bet that getting the certificate would be easier for a comm-rated pilot who has been flying for, say, seven years and 900 hours. Who knows? Might be me in a few years.

No rush.
 
N2212R said:
How difficult is the CFI-IA ride? I know, I know. How heavy is a stone?

I'm just looking down the runway of progression, and figured since the Commercial is only ~10 hours of training away, maybe getting a CFI card might be worth it just for the "oooh" factor from non-pilots. (OK, not just for that reason, I really just want to be able to put it on my sigline :D ) Of course, with the IA already, might as well make the CFI certificate match. I've taught martial arts for a spell, so I know the difficulties of trying to explain something to craniu-granite.

TSA BS aside, is there a reason a lot of commercial pilots don't have the CFI/CFI-IA certificate that I am not aware of?
Click to expand...

To minimize flight time, do your comm from the right seat, talking all the way through it & CFI to the II.
 
bbchien said:
Anybody recall the name Shane Osborn? He was a young full bar LT on 4/4/01 when he figured out what was necessary to land/control a crippled P3. And he executed the landing. In China.

Airman. His crew returned uninjured to the States. The pilot of the F8 is presumed to have been eaten by sharks.
Click to expand...

Yes! I recently read a book on him that was published a few years ago. I keep forgetting the name of it...darn...it will come to me eventually.

Some amazing factual stories in there. If you want intense flying stories; read his book.

Jason
 
Well, Ted may chime in as a recent CFI, and I'll put my opinions down as a CFI candidate.

The CFI is all about the TEACHING. And even though I've passed all the writtens, and held and used a ground instructor certificate for about a year now, I'm finding the CFI path a little daunting. It's one thing to lecture or answer questions about VOR navigation, or FARs, or other head stuff in the cognitive domain. It's another thing altogether to teach the psychomotor stuff like manuevers. I've learned a lot about describing the behavior of an airplane, catering to different learning styles, and proper planning and organization. And we haven't even gone flying yet! On the other hand, I can look around and see some "boneheads" and am confident that I'll pass, eventually.

Here in DC we plan two days for the initial CFI ride. Day one is the oral and the inspection of the airplane by the airworthiness guys. Day two is the flying portion. There's just too much to do to try and cover it in one day (at least the way the Washington FSDO does it). On the other hand, it's free.

I have this vague impression that because of recent rewrites in part 61 that it's no longer reasonable to get the CFI-IA first and to the CFI-A second.

I may not take the actual ride (or start the flying portion of the CFI) until the next final rule (removing the requirement for a complex airplane) comes out. The word I've gotten is that it will be released quite quickly after the comment period expires. Since not needing a complex airplane will reduce the cost significantly, it may make sense to wait.
 
Note: This thread was started over 4 years ago, when Ed didn't even have his commercial, much less his CFI (which he has).

I, sadly, don't have my CFII yet. Tony sends me text messages almost every day about it (good to see I'm not the only one!). Missa beats me over the head about it. Men weep, women snort.

But I can't speak for Ed. Maybe he's gotten it done, and then these other folk will get off my back about it. :D
 
Hum, Now why didn't I think about sending you a text message every day about it.

What a good idea.
 
i actually have not been texting ted every day. but i could start.
 
I just sent him one. Perhaps I could build the feature into JesseWeather.
 
you could start a new website called JesseMotivator
 
EdFred said:
how do some of these boneheads make it through?
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No limit on how may times an 8710 can be signed...
but at any rate once you get the CFI do get your CFII in the future.
 
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Couldn't resist.

I just text messaged Ted to see if he has his MEI yet.

:D
 
bbchien said:
Anybody recall the name Shane Osborn? He was a young full bar LT on 4/4/01 when he figured out what was necessary to land/control a crippled P3. And he executed the landing. In China.

Airman. His crew returned uninjured to the States. The pilot of the F8 is presumed to have been eaten by sharks.
Click to expand...

Truly a great story..
Hes our state auditor now..."He" mailed me a letter advising The State of Nebraska has a lost check in my name for $20.

I mailed him back a buisness card as his Flight Review is due next month.
 
bbchien said:
Anybody recall the name Shane Osborn? He was a young full bar LT on 4/4/01 when he figured out what was necessary to land/control a crippled P3. And he executed the landing. In China.

Airman. His crew returned uninjured to the States. The pilot of the F8 is presumed to have been eaten by sharks.
Click to expand...
Sure do. I even landed on the runway he did (on board China Southern airlines) and walked the ramp he parked on in China just a couple of years later. That was really a strange feeling.
 
bbchien said:
Anybody recall the name Shane Osborn? He was a young full bar LT on 4/4/01 when he figured out what was necessary to land/control a crippled P3. And he executed the landing. In China.

Airman. His crew returned uninjured to the States. The pilot of the F8 is presumed to have been eaten by sharks.
Click to expand...




smigaldi said:
Sure do. I even landed on the runway he did (on board China Southern airlines) and walked the ramp he parked on in China just a couple of years later. That was really a strange feeling.
Click to expand...

That's my old squadron (VQ-1) and the airplane was PR-32. I have many, many hours on that plane. It's an ex-CIA airplane and had some very interesting modifications to it.
 
And now I've gotten texts from 4 different people asking whether I've got my CFII and MEI yet.

I see a new JesseMotivator website coming. ;)

And no, Tony hasn't been texting me every day about it. We'll see how that changes...
 
"About JesseMotivator: I started this as a way to bug people into getting things done. It started when Ted was being a lazy bum and not getting his CFII and MEI fast enough. It's since spiraled out of control."
 
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