Getting ready to compete :)

Toby

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
1,068
Location
Long Island, NY
Display Name

Display name:
Toby Speed
I got to my lesson today expecting to do more spins (we haven't done all the different kinds yet), and instead my instructor started out by telling me that he'd decided to go back to competing. He had competed for several years and gotten up to Advanced, but then he stopped. The whole aerobatics crowd at my airport used to go to competitions together, but they stopped when people's schedules and demands on their time changed.

Anyway, his next sentence to me was that -- if I was interested -- he thought I could be ready to compete in the Basic category by the end of the summer. There's a competition up in Vermont the last week in August, and all the guys were thinking about going. I could fly up with them for 2-3 days, get to practice in the box, and then he'd fly with me as safety pilot for the competition. He then told me to think about it for a few minutes while he went and did something else. I already knew what I wanted to do! :D :D :D Not a hard decision. In fact, I immediately called my daughter in Montreal and told her I'd have to take her back to college on the Monday after the competition, instead of during that weekend, as we had planned. Hehehe. She was fine with it. She said, go Mom! :D

There are some other competitions coming up in the next couple months that we might all go to, but I'll just go to watch and see how it's done and meet all the other nutty people who love to do this stuff.

This changed our whole agenda -- for the rest of the spring and summer. It gave me a concrete goal, for a change, instead of just this open-ended syllabus. I like that. Being involved in a kind of aviation for which there are no ratings or endorsements or even standards for basic maneuvers gets frustrating. Getting ready for a competition is different. There are very strict performance standards, specific maneuvers to learn, and a date by which time you have to be ready.

So today we went up and did competition turns. To do this, I have to learn to make clean, crisp entries and exits. Everything has to be on the correct heading, and I can't lose or gain altitude. The mantra I was taught was Bank - Stop - Turn - Stop - Bank. We basically did the first two steps, Bank and Stop, over and over and over again. "Bank" means roll to at least 60 degrees of bank. "Stop" means stick forward, top rudder. I kept doing the stop in a wishy-washy way. I am so used to making gentle, gradual turns that it takes a very conscious effort and a very assertive input on both the stick and rudder to make it happen crisply. I'm not too good at it! I gave myself a C- for today, and that was for persistence.

As usual, I can do it much better to the left than to the right. When I do the stop to the right, I roll lazily out over the ocean....not good. It also seems harder for me to put in the left rudder pedal assertively and to leave it there. For some reason I keep taking it out without meaning to.

Another difficulty is moving the stick exactly to the left or to the right. Because of the way our arm is attached to our body, the tendency is to swing the stick towards the body when moving it to the left, and away from the body when moving it to the right. He tells me to think of it as being on a track, and it can only move in that track.

We did the turning part four or five times, too. It's a LOT of fun, as you're way over on your side just pulling like crazy. I definitely had enough with an hour of this today, as we were constantly pulling between 3 and 4 G's.

On Saturday it's supposed to rain all day, but I'm going out to the hangar to sit in the airplane and go through the moves. That will be good practice, even if I'm on the ground.

On a side note, I started lifting weights a few weeks ago. Will this help me withstand the G forces better? Those Blue Angels guys do it, so I figured it couldn't hurt.

Wish me luck, you guys! Basic, here I come!
 
GO GIRL! I am so excited for you.

Keep us posted about the competition!
 
Toby, that is great, keep us up to speed on your training! Maybe we'll be seeing you at a show someday!!!
 
Bill Jennings said:
Toby, that is great, keep us up to speed on your training! Maybe we'll be seeing you at a show someday!!!
LOL! I don't know about that, Bill! But I'll keep posting. I can't WAIT to do this. I am going to have to cut way back on flying the 172 and some other activities to have the time and money to do it.
 
That's excellent, Toby! I really look forward to hearing about your continued progress!
 
Holy cr@p, that's awesome!
Where and when in Vermont? I want dates and details!

It does feel good to have measurements of progress, doesn't it? You're doing something I only dream about!

--Kath
 
kath said:
Holy cr@p, that's awesome!
Where and when in Vermont? I want dates and details!

It does feel good to have measurements of progress, doesn't it? You're doing something I only dream about!

--Kath
VSF - Springfield, VT - Aug. 27-28. We're flying up Thurs. or Fri. Will you still be on this side of the country?? I really hope you can come!

And you are doing something I dream about, Katherine!
 
WOW Toby! That is super! Will you still give autographs to us low and slow folks when you are famous?

Gary
 
Gary said:
WOW Toby! That is super! Will you still give autographs to us low and slow folks when you are famous?

Gary

She already IS famous as a writer :zap!:

She is now building her fame as an aerobatics pilot :cheerio:
 
Uh Oh, you're gonna really be hooked now! I'd love to try acro competition, but I'd probably end up divorced. Have a blast!

WRT to the stick motion, if you can rig a way to clamp the elevator into a neutral position (or just have someone hold it by hand), the stick will be forced to travel laterally making very easy to "teach" your arm the movement that gives only roll.
 
Alright Toby!!! Have a blast, take pictures! Post them!
 
Toby, just got a chance to read the news. Wow! You are doing something few people would dream of, much less dare to do. Practice patting yourself on the back a little to strengthen that arm! Keep us posted!
 
lancefisher said:
Uh Oh, you're gonna really be hooked now! I'd love to try acro competition, but I'd probably end up divorced. Have a blast!

WRT to the stick motion, if you can rig a way to clamp the elevator into a neutral position (or just have someone hold it by hand), the stick will be forced to travel laterally making very easy to "teach" your arm the movement that gives only roll.
I'm going to work with the stick today, flying in the hangar. Before I started learning turns the competition way, I thought I was becoming pretty good with the stick. My turns felt fine to me. You know, I'd look down and see the ball's in the middle, and get real happy. I guess I had just the slightest wrong travel angle in there, imperceptible to me. The thing about competition turns, spins, or anything else, is that you have to be exact every time you reposition the plane. You don't just roll into a turn; you do it step by step, and if there's imprecision in any step, you get points off.

Another fine point is -- where is 60 degrees of bank? The best I can do is to memorize as well as possible where the metal strip on the windshield crosses the horizon. There's no attitude indicator. But I have to memorize it, and be able to stop right there. Quite a challenge! It was easier when I wasn't thinking about numbers. I'm probably overthinking everything, anyway, as I usually do.

I have a lot to learn yet about energy management. I have to be able to come out of a spin at a certain airspeed and know that it's sufficient, but not too much, to go into a loop. I can't imagine being able to regulate this and think about it in a relaxed way while I'm doing it. Right now I just tense myself up and concentrate very hard on putting in the correct inputs in the correct sequence, then do a mental "whew" at the end and forget to look at my airspeed and altitude (although he is relentless in reminding me). Going from one to the next? Seems impossible!

I don't know how I'm going to get anywhere doing this 1 hour a week.....it is frustrating.

Thanks to everyone for your encouragement. I sure wish a few more of you were doing this. I miss the old days of posting about my lessons and getting tons of feedback on landings, cross countries, cockpit management, radios, etc. I do appreciate your support, just wish I could compare notes with some of you on the training details!
 
Toby

I read a great book about a guy preparing for the nationals. It came out last year and was called No Visible Horizon by Joshua Cooper Ramo. Ramo is a Senior Editor at Time Magazine when he's not flying his Extra. You might like it
 
A famous children's author who also flies in acrobatic competitions. Now there' s a human interest story if I've ever heard one.
 
Toby said:
he thought I could be ready to compete in the Basic category by the end of the summer. There's a competition up in Vermont the last week in August, and all the guys were thinking about going. I could fly up with them for 2-3 days, get to practice in the box, and then he'd fly with me as safety pilot for the competition.

Wish me luck, you guys! Basic, here I come!
Toby, that's wonderful! You'll have to keep us posted. :D

If I had somebody local to be my mentor/trainer, I'd be doing the same thing. You're fortunate indeed to have people so close by that are supportive and willing to work with you.

You will do great! :yes:
 
corjulo said:
Toby

I read a great book about a guy preparing for the nationals. It came out last year and was called No Visible Horizon by Joshua Cooper Ramo. Ramo is a Senior Editor at Time Magazine when he's not flying his Extra. You might like it
Thanks, Dan. I will check it out.
 
corjulo said:
A famous children's author who also flies in acrobatic competitions. Now there' s a human interest story if I've ever heard one.

And we knew her "when" :D
 
Good luck

No matter how you place you will have an awesome time.
I competed in sportsman last year. Didn't place last but so close. I had a problem of staying in the box. But, if i remember correctly basic doesn't have penally for flying out of the box.

LUCK LUCK LUCK

Maximus
 
maximus said:
Good luck

No matter how you place you will have an awesome time.
I competed in sportsman last year. Didn't place last but so close. I had a problem of staying in the box. But, if i remember correctly basic doesn't have penally for flying out of the box.

LUCK LUCK LUCK

Maximus
Hey, tell me more. What kind of airplane do you fly? How long have you been competing? How long doing acrobatics? Where did you train? Where did you compete last year?

If you've written about this before on the board, I missed your story. Hope you won't mind repeating yourself!

My instructor tells me I must stay in the box. We're going to do the best we can here, with an invisible box :) And then we're going up early to practice in the real box there. I think that will be one of the hardest parts for me, too.
 
I first started flying aerobatics back in 2001 when my instrument instructor bought a super decathlon. He showed me how to do loops and rolls.

When I got to Embry Riddle in the fall of '02. I immediately signed up for their aerobatic club. We had a few classes on parachute use and handling g's then we where cleared to practice the maneuvers. Mike Caradi took my up and we did the primary maneuvers. After a few hours of practice i decided that i wanted to compete at the sportsman level for the Tequila Cup. I had about 10 hours before the Tequila Cup and was able to squeeze in another hour of practice before I flew the 2002 known. Placed 6 out 11. I needed to wag off several times Once because I went into a loop instead of doing the gold fish.

Bill Briski was my last contest. It was using the 2003 known. Still didn't place very high.

I am sure you will have no problems staying in the box. Are you going to be performing solo or with a safety pilot?

PS thanks for the Birthday wish. I will toast the first "legal" drink to you :cheerio:
 
maximus said:
I first started flying aerobatics back in 2001 when my instrument instructor bought a super decathlon. He showed me how to do loops and rolls.

When I got to Embry Riddle in the fall of '02. I immediately signed up for their aerobatic club. We had a few classes on parachute use and handling g's then we where cleared to practice the maneuvers. Mike Caradi took my up and we did the primary maneuvers. After a few hours of practice i decided that i wanted to compete at the sportsman level for the Tequila Cup. I had about 10 hours before the Tequila Cup and was able to squeeze in another hour of practice before I flew the 2002 known. Placed 6 out 11. I needed to wag off several times Once because I went into a loop instead of doing the gold fish.

Bill Briski was my last contest. It was using the 2003 known. Still didn't place very high.

I am sure you will have no problems staying in the box. Are you going to be performing solo or with a safety pilot?

PS thanks for the Birthday wish. I will toast the first "legal" drink to you :cheerio:

Oh, man. Great story. Ten hours of practice before competing. And you started when you were 17...... *sigh*

So, you flew a Super D in your first competition? Also -- tell me more about what you learned in school about handling Gs.

Well, I have a lot more hours in this airplane so far than you had, and my instructor will be along as safety pilot. And I am just doing Basic. But as long as I don't black out, I will be smiling through it all!
 
Toby said:
Oh, man. Great story. Ten hours of practice before competing. And you started when you were 17...... *sigh*

So, you flew a Super D in your first competition? Also -- tell me more about what you learned in school about handling Gs.

Well, I have a lot more hours in this airplane so far than you had, and my instructor will be along as safety pilot. And I am just doing Basic. But as long as I don't black out, I will be smiling through it all!


Ok the scoop on G's.

The reason you get tunnel vision is because not enough oxygen is being delivered to your brain. This is caused by Stagnant Hypoxia, or simply the inability of blood to be pumped to the head. When we are pulling out of a dive increased loading causes us to sink in are seats and are body effectively becomes heavier. The blood gets pulled from our head and its main concentration is in are legs. 4 g's are common in aerobatic flight so a 180lbs man weighs effectively 720 lbs! At 9 G's 1620 lbs

Your body naturally builds up G tolerances. The more you experience g's the more g's you can handle. The taller you are the more likely you will experience tunnel vision sooner because blood has farther to travel. With G's it is better to be short and fat.

Techniques to use anytime your body is under POSITIVE G loading

Take a deep breath and hold.
Tighten your to legs and abdomen similar to taking a dump.
Quickly exhale 15-20 % of your lungs volume then inhale.
remember to do this every time get in the habit.

If you start to loose all your visual ques reducing the g's is the best course of action along with continued proper breathing and tension. Under high enough g's you can black out in a split second (extremely BAD SOLO).

In flight physiology at ERAU Dr. Blackmore showed us a video of airforce pilots in a centrifuge. They would go through proper technique with each pilot and verify that there ticker could handle it. One poor fellow at 9 g's passed out because he relived pressure from his legs and abdomen. It was scary seeing his eyes roll back. His pulse was as high as 265 BPM.

If you start getting into intermediate advance and especially unlimited you will be doing a significant mount of pushing in maneuvers. This causes blood to flow to the head and Red Outs occur not black outs. The first time you experience negative g's it hurts like hell. You DONOT want to tense up for this maneuver. Your head is already getting to much blood. The best thing for negative g's is build up to the gradually.

Hope this helps

Maximus
 
Last edited:
Thanks, Bruce. I'll print that out. Too bad there's no Weekly Reader edition.
 
I took negative Gs in an L39 last week and hated it. How do you all get used to the discomfort and the feeling that your head has just grown larger? I am not convinced that I could get past it.

Jim G
 
grattonja said:
I took negative Gs in an L39 last week and hated it. How do you all get used to the discomfort and the feeling that your head has just grown larger? I am not convinced that I could get past it.

Jim G

The key is to gradualy work up to em. Personaly I stay away from them.

maximus
 
Here's a good PowerPoint presentation about Gs:

[size=-1]www.nomi.med.navy.mil/GTIP.PPT

Later in the presentation, you'll find information about building and maintaining G tolerance.

Most people are able to build tolerance to both postive and negative G, but that tolerance is fleeting. If I haven't flown acro for even just a few days, I am very careful to rebuild my tolerance gradually. The ability to withstand negative G (a very unnatural condition) usually takes much longer to develop and decays more rapidly than that for positive G. Some people who can handle +G never get comfortable with -G, and most hard-core competition and airshow pilots dislike -G much beyond -2 or -3. It hurts.
[/size]
 
BruceAir said:
Here's a good PowerPoint presentation about Gs:

[size=-1]www.nomi.med.navy.mil/GTIP.PPT

Later in the presentation, you'll find information about building and maintaining G tolerance.

Most people are able to build tolerance to both postive and negative G, but that tolerance is fleeting. If I haven't flown acro for even just a few days, I am very careful to rebuild my tolerance gradually. The ability to withstand negative G (a very unnatural condition) usually takes much longer to develop and decays more rapidly than that for positive G. Some people who can handle +G never get comfortable with -G, and most hard-core competition and airshow pilots dislike -G much beyond -2 or -3. It hurts.
[/size]

Your link didn't work for me Bruce, but it wouldn't anyway as my office doesn't have enough licenses for Microsoft Office to go around, so most of us no longer have powerpoint :( But I appreciate knowing that I am not the only pilot who finds those negative Gs painful. The CFI seemed surprised that I didn't like the negative Gs. We had done a fast climb to 17500 and leveled off hard. Not hard enough, as I almost busted Alpha before the CFI pushed it over the last little bit. Don't know how many neg Gs, guessing 2 or maybe slightly less, but I sure didn't like them.

Just have to get up and get more practice, I guess :)

Jim G
 
I haven't had much experience with -Gs yet, but flying 1-2 x week has so far been enough to acclimate me to the +Gs. Of course, I only go up to 4 Gs, and only for short periods of time. For the first month, my lessons were only maybe a half hour, 40 minutes. Now I'm good for an hour, sometimes more. I'm sure this will change once I start sequencing.
 
You can download a free PowerPoint viewer from the Microsoft Office Web site (and other viewers that allow you to view other types of Office documents as well):

Go to the Office downloads page and poke around or search.

An alternative link to the G presention (in HTML) is here.
 
Uh-oh. I just downloaded the PowerPoint Viewer, then tried to open the presentation, and I got a popup that says that the viewer is incompatible with the version of PP used to make the presentation. It says the viewer only supports presentations made in 1997 or later. I will try the HTML version.
 
Bruce you never cease to amaze me on your wealth of knowledge. Thanks for being apart of POA


Maximus
 
Back
Top