Getting hired by a mainline... Very long road?

[Slipkid65]

The interesting thing in my business is it attracts a lot of people who are also pilots.

Mine too!

I didn't pursue airlines (I had set out to) because 2 factors, the cost of getting to the majors was high, I was stepping down from high five and low six figures and was looking at a minimum of a decade to get back to that.

That's a unique situation, and honestly, if I were making 6 figures doing something else, I would be hard pressed to give that up and go the regional OR the corporate route. I'd continue what I was doing and get an airplane for fun flying.

I know one guy that made the jump from a good (non flying) corporate career to the airlines. He took early retirement with a great pension/bonus package/portfolio and made flying a second career. Due to this, even with a family, he could afford the crummy pay while he built time at a corporate job and later, a large regional. He just retired a few months ago.....

I coupled that with the old time airline pilots glad to retire as well as less senior ones with 15 years that got furloughed (or the job vanished with the airline, a good one like TWA, a 1/3rd of my indoc class at Express One to fly Jetstreams came from TWA including a couple guys in L-1011s) from good paying jobs and are attending indoc with me going for an $18,000 a year job.

I flew with many ex Eastern and Pan Am guys sitting in my right seat at the commuters. I also flew with many ex corporate guys there too.

FWIW, the TWA guys all ended up at AA when they got bought. A lot of them got furloughed post 9/11, but they all kept their numbers. Those were most likely the guys you had in class with you. AFAIK, they've all been recalled.

The daily life QoL once you make it to a major and have a route is fine, the long term security and increase in risk with increase in commitment is a stressor. Your future is not assured with seniority in the airline industry because no matter how high you fall from, your next job will be at the bottom unless you shift laterally to a foreign contract carrier and live in Asia or the Mid East.

Corporate jobs are somehow immune to these issues?

As I've said numerous times in these threads..... as someone who's done it for nearly 30 years, flying airplanes for a living is not for the weak of heart (literally and figuratively). The cost vs. the "payoff" can be great or horrible, with lots of it determined by pure luck.

It's a crap shoot, regardless of where/how you do it. It's the nature of the beast.

Then again, name a career that ISN'T a crap shoot these days? Nothing in life is guaranteed.

The economic uncertainties and job security issues are at least as bad in the corporate world as they are in the airlines, as the first thing to go when a company is in financial trouble is typically the airplane(s) and the pilots with them.

At least if you get furloughed with an airline seniority number, you can typically go do something else, like fly corporate until the recall. The opposite is far less likely to happen.

Two major differences in job "security" between a corporate guy and a major guy are seniority lists and unions.

There are (typically) no seniority lists on the corporate level, making it an easier decision to leave a crummy job or one that's in free fall. That also opens one up to dealing with office politics (brown nosing) to get "ahead" vs. just going to work, flying your line, going home and upgrading as your seniority allows. There are pros and cons to both sides, but overall, I'll take the seniority system, warts and all.

You're also far less likely to have union representation in a corporate job. I know lots of folks hate unions for various reasons, but when your job is on the line, those dues can be worth their weight in gold. In the corporate world, if the boss doesn't like the color of your hair, you can be fired without any recourse. It's not so easy for them in the airline world.

While I am currently represented by an independent union, I was an ALPA guy for about 8 years. To say that I am not a fan would be an understatement. Their ability to obtain or administer a decent contract on the commuter level was dismal, BUT, their representation of pilots in trouble was/is very effective. I know several guys who owe their careers to ALPA, for better or for worse.

 

[kayoh190]

PLUS PLUS PLUS
You do not have to deal with flight attendants (after doing that for a few years...no thank you).

Sooooooo jealous!

That was one of the big advantages of working at a national carrier over where I am now - the FAs tended to be young, more fun, and generally just less of a PITA.

I had an FA jumpseater come up and say hi last month - she was hired in 1972. 1972. Very nice woman, but holy crap!

 

[N747JB]

My last Airtran flight had her mom as the lead FA!
A guy that used to fly for us, back in the early to mid 90's, flew co-pilot for a small company on pt 91, for free to build multi-time.
He ended up getting hired by ASA around 1997 or so, at the age of 38. He's still there, and will likely retire there. He was too old to make the jump to Delta and I think he likes what he does, makes pretty good money, not Delta money, but he doesn't spend a lot!

Sooooooo jealous!

That was one of the big advantages of working at a national carrier over where I am now - the FAs tended to be young, more fun, and generally just less of a PITA.

I had an FA jumpseater come up and say hi last month - she was hired in 1972. 1972. Very nice woman, but holy crap!

 

[Slipkid65]

Sooooooo jealous!

That was one of the big advantages of working at a national carrier over where I am now - the FAs tended to be young, more fun, and generally just less of a PITA.

I had an FA jumpseater come up and say hi last month - she was hired in 1972. 1972. Very nice woman, but holy crap!

LOL......

That was definitely a bonus for working at the regionals.

I did the night freight thing for a while too. The lack of FAs and pax was a good thing, but was negated by that sick feeling you get when watching the sun come up in the cockpit after being up all night.

 

[Henning]

Mine too!



That's a unique situation, and honestly, if I were making 6 figures doing something else, I would be hard pressed to give that up and go the regional OR the corporate route. I'd continue what I was doing and get an airplane for fun flying.

I know one guy that made the jump from a good (non flying) corporate career to the airlines. He took early retirement with a great pension/bonus package/portfolio and made flying a second career. Due to this, even with a family, he could afford the crummy pay while he built time at a corporate job and later, a large regional. He just retired a few months ago.....



I flew with many ex Eastern and Pan Am guys sitting in my right seat at the commuters. I also flew with many ex corporate guys there too.

FWIW, the TWA guys all ended up at AA when they got bought. A lot of them got furloughed post 9/11, but they all kept their numbers. Those were most likely the guys you had in class with you. AFAIK, they've all been recalled.



Corporate jobs are somehow immune to these issues?

As I've said numerous times in these threads..... as someone who's done it for nearly 30 years, flying airplanes for a living is not for the weak of heart (literally and figuratively). The cost vs. the "payoff" can be great or horrible, with lots of it determined by pure luck.

It's a crap shoot, regardless of where/how you do it. It's the nature of the beast.

Then again, name a career that ISN'T a crap shoot these days? Nothing in life is guaranteed.

Which is what I chose.

I do not think the Corporate jobs are immune to anything and I also turned down an opportunity at it to pursue a maritime opportunity. The CFII who trained me wanted me in the right seat of his Falcon, but I left on a sail boat the day after I took my IR ride.

Life is short, pursue what works for you.

 

[sourdough44]

While you're at it don't forget some of the less mentioned details. One of which is keeping your driving record fairly clean, none of the 'careless/reckless driving' type tickets. Of course a DUI is a big no no too. A speeding ticket for 10-15 over can be overcome.

I've seen chances torpedo'ed by both.

 

[James331]

There are (typically) no seniority lists on the corporate level, making it an easier decision to leave a crummy job or one that's in free fall. That also opens one up to dealing with office politics (brown nosing) to get "ahead" vs. just going to work, flying your line, going home and upgrading as your seniority allows. There are pros and cons to both sides, but overall, I'll take the seniority system, warts and all.

You're also far less likely to have union representation in a corporate job. I know lots of folks hate unions for various reasons, but when your job is on the line, those dues can be worth their weight in gold. In the corporate world, if the boss doesn't like the color of your hair, you can be fired without any recourse. It's not so easy for them in the airline world.

I can think of at least one 135 that has seniority and a union.

The other area where there can be some good money is 137, I've seen ex corp, ex millitary, ex airline guys go that route, end up with their own plane and business.

 

[SCCutler]

Thats interesting, i know of a guy that was captain at a united express regional flying q300's and left it for people express flying 737's. Its a small airline with a few destinations i believe. Not sure why he wouldnt have waited for a bigger airline. Must have been a good offer.

PEX has "temporarily" suspended flight operations, and since their flights were being operated by another carrier (Vision Airlines), and they are now looking for another airline to operate their flights, I'm guessing your friend's gig is squashed. Bad deal.

Their bottom-line is, no money, and when they were flying, there was nothing about their operations to inspire confidence that the business model was viable. An airline hubbing at Newport News. Yep.

Of course, the good bet in 1971 was that Southwest wouldn't last a year against the competition from established carriers Braniff International and Texas International.

At least Texas International flies on, under the less-prestigious name, "United."

 

[SCCutler]

Thats interesting, i know of a guy that was captain at a united express regional flying q300's and left it for people express flying 737's. Its a small airline with a few destinations i believe. Not sure why he wouldnt have waited for a bigger airline. Must have been a good offer.

PEX has "temporarily" suspended flight operations, and since their flights were being operated by another carrier (Vision Airlines), and they are now looking for another airline to operate their flights, I'm guessing your friend's gig is squashed. Bad deal.

Their bottom-line is, no money, and when they were flying, there was nothing about their operations to inspire confidence that the business model was viable. An airline hubbing at Newport News. Yep.

Of course, the good bet in 1971 was that Southwest wouldn't last a year against the competition from established carriers Braniff International and Texas International.

At least Texas International flies on, under the less-prestigious name, "United."

 

[Slipkid65]

Which is what I chose.

I do not think the Corporate jobs are immune to anything and I also turned down an opportunity at it to pursue a maritime opportunity. The CFII who trained me wanted me in the right seat of his Falcon, but I left on a sail boat the day after I took my IR ride.

I thought of you yesterday....... My wife's tennis team had a party for one of the guys, and we went on a sunset cruise on big catamaran. As it turns out, the Capt was an old friend of mine (retired cop). Not exactly what you're doing, but he has his Master ticket and loves it as his retirement job.

Life is short, pursue what works for you.

Amen.... This is the bottom line. I've known far too many people who are miserable at their jobs, including the airlines. Life is too LONG to be that miserable all the time. Do what makes you happy!

 

[Everskyward]

Speaking of People Express, which I hadn't heard about in a long time... I was talking to someone yesterday who was hired by United, changed to People Express (the old one), which was absorbed by Continental, then merged with United. So he ended up retiring from United anyway. You never know.

 

[Slipkid65]

I can think of at least one 135 that has seniority and a union.

Which is why I used the word "typically". It is not the norm in the corporate world, where it is at every airline. Well, any that are worth making a career.

The other area where there can be some good money is 137, I've seen ex corp, ex millitary, ex airline guys go that route, end up with their own plane and business.

I am not at all familiar with that type of flying, so have no opinion.

 

[Slipkid65]

Speaking of People Express, which I hadn't heard about in a long time... I was talking to someone yesterday who was hired by United, changed to People Express (the old one), which was absorbed by Continental, then merged with United. So he ended up retiring from United anyway. You never know.

Very true My dad was hired at Pan Am in 1960. If you had told him that he'd retire from Delta in the mid '90's, he would've laughed at you, as they were not much more than a regional at the time.

You never know........ I've got 15 years left. We'll see who I actually retire from!

 

[Henning]

I can think of at least one 135 that has seniority and a union.

The other area where there can be some good money is 137, I've seen ex corp, ex millitary, ex airline guys go that route, end up with their own plane and business.

137 is good work, when there is work, it is a spotty industry and is every bit as competitive as the airlines.

Out of the 7 people I went through Ag Pilot school through in the late 90s, including the owner and his son, I am the sole survivor. I walked away from it the second time I had 'woke up' in the middle of a field having sprayed half of it without giving it conscious thought, but my coverage map on the Satloc is spot on; I also happened to be flying under wires at an end of the field. At that time I had already watched one of my colleagues not pull out at the bottom of a turn in the field next to me, and I had put one in as well and walked away.

The reality of Ag work is it is boring as all hell. Once you learn the tricks to working low, it's just back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back... Ad infinitum. If you are working a bug run where you are flying dawn to dusk, it's a lot of monotony. If you can get on a long term, full time seat with a chemical distributor, you can have a nice living. If you want the life of a gypsy pilot, it does offer that, but where you stay...