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Missa

Missa

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Well, the USB record player thread has spured me to ask a question of the geeks here since there seems to be someone who is (or at least thinks they are) knowlagable on almost any topic.

My Grandpa was a great story teller, in the year before he past I grabed a tape recorded and started turning it on whenever he started just chatting because soonner or later one of his great stories would be told. I have 7 90 cassette tapes of him. I have always intended to digitise these and burn them onto CD but I just don't know the best way. Can I get a player that will plug into a USB? or will a reagular player into the sound card work just fine? Is there a program I can use to split it into tracks and clean-up some of the hiss and make g-pa louder on some tracks? Or would it just be easier to send the tapes off to have someone else do it? I would really like to do this to give CDs to my sisters and my mom for x-mas.

Any help, lessons or suggestions?

Missa
 
Missa said:
Well, the USB record player thread has spured me to ask a question of the geeks here since there seems to be someone who is (or at least thinks they are) knowlagable on almost any topic.

My Grandpa was a great story teller, in the year before he past I grabed a tape recorded and started turning it on whenever he started just chatting because soonner or later one of his great stories would be told. I have 7 90 cassette tapes of him. I have always intended to digitise these and burn them onto CD but I just don't know the best way. Can I get a player that will plug into a USB? or will a reagular player into the sound card work just fine? Is there a program I can use to split it into tracks and clean-up some of the hiss and make g-pa louder on some tracks? Or would it just be easier to send the tapes off to have someone else do it? I would really like to do this to give CDs to my sisters and my mom for x-mas.

Any help, lessons or suggestions?

Missa
Click to expand...

Ion (same people that made the turntable) has an cassette deck that you can use for 139$ at thinkgeek:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/audio/9778/

You can also use your own cassette deck and save a good bit of cash:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/mp3/85fb/

Hope this helps!
 
How much free time do you have?

Many tape recorders/cassette players (especially those for a home entertainment system) have a line output that will interface directly with a line input jack on a computer audio card. Just need a cable (Radio Shack or computer store, less than $10). And recording software that typically is already on your computer.

Start recording software, start tape deck, wait until it finishes.

Since you're recording voice, the fidelity of a computer sound card should be adequate.

It does take time, though, since you have to play each tape in its entirety. That may be very enjoyable if you love hearing the stories again.....

If you don't have the time to do all the tapes, you can outsource the job. Last time I priced moving video from 8MM, it was on the order of $35/tape. Audio should be less.
 
Also, if you just want to hook up your player to your audio card, there is free software out there called Audacity, which can do everything you want, though it may not be as straight forward as the other two commercial options.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
 
I use audacity to edit songs that I have recorded. It works really well and is easy to use.
The idea of the line out from the tape will work fine. If you do not have a line out you can use the earphone out jack but you will have to adjust the volume to a level that will not result in clipping. Just try recording a few minutes and listen back to it.
 
wsuffa said:
Many tape recorders/cassette players (especially those for a home entertainment system) have a line output that will interface directly with a line input jack on a computer audio card. Just need a cable (Radio Shack or computer store, less than $10). And recording software that typically is already on your computer.
Click to expand...

The recorder I was useing to tape him does not have a line out nor headphone jack, the other player I have is fairly old/crappy but would work however if the quality can be improved with a newer player I would spend the money.

The current recording software on the computer will record but does not have the ability for me to clean up the signal, removal of hiss.

wbarnhill said:
Also, if you just want to hook up your player to your audio card, there is free software out there called Audacity, which can do everything you want, though it may not be as straight forward as the other two commercial options.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
Click to expand...

Yea, I'll look into that tonight!

wsuffa said:
How much free time do you have?
<Snip>
It does take time, though, since you have to play each tape in its entirety. That may be very enjoyable if you love hearing the stories again.....
Click to expand...

Not a lot of free time, but I really do love his stories.

He's got one about meeting Henery Ford and helping him fix a steam powered popcorn popper, one about modifing a ModelT so he could drive it descretly by wire inorder to pop the stearing wheel off to give to a particularly anoying back seat driver, one about illigally discharging a cannon, one about sodering a quarter onto a nail & driving it into the floor just inside the door at the office on April 1st in the middle of the depression, so as one person bent over to pick up the quater they would be hit on the butt by the next person comming in.

They are a balst to listen to which is why I recorded him in the first place.

wsuffa said:
If you don't have the time to do all the tapes, you can outsource the job. Last time I priced moving video from 8MM, it was on the order of $35/tape. Audio should be less.
Click to expand...

The only things that concern me about outsourcing is that I have alot of background conversations that really have little value. I usually just hit the record button after a family meal and got what I got. He also repeated many stories which I would like to group together. Along with improving some of the sound quality (which I'm most concerned that I'm not experianced enought to do) so it's a lot more then just convering the tapes to CD.

Thanks for all the advice so far!

Missa
 
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In that case, Missa, I'd say you're better off doing the editing yourself.

Maybe you can find an enterprising kid that would be willing to take the time to record the tapes into computer files for you, saving half the work.

I agree that Audacy is a superb product. I use it with a very high grade audio card to dub old tapes and records to the computer. It has a variety of edit functions.

If the're old reel-reel tapes, an old broadcaster trick is to use a playback machine that runs at double-speed, and then use the audio package to slow it down. In the old days, broadcasters had machines that ran at 15 ips - you could dub a 7-1/2 IPS reel tape in half the time by running both machines at 15. I think Audacy has the ability to adjust playback speed. Of course, if they're cassettes, you can't do that unless you can find a "dubbing" machine that runs at double speed.
 
I would strongly suggest getting the best cassette player that you can for the playback; older tapes, perhaps of probably dubious quality to start with, will need all the help that they can get, and playing 'em back with an old tired deck just won't help. I sense these rae some real gems, so the investment might be well worth it.

Check out: www.martelelectronics.com
 
SCCutler said:
I would strongly suggest getting the best cassette player that you can for the playback; older tapes, perhaps of probably dubious quality to start with, will need all the help that they can get, and playing 'em back with an old tired deck just won't help. I sense these rae some real gems, so the investment might be well worth it.

Check out: www.martelelectronics.com
Click to expand...

Ouch! it's a little much for something I will be using once. Which is why I was thinking about outsourcing. :rolleyes: See I can't decide which would be better. There is a lot of editing that only I could do but then I don't have the equipment. I'd almost like to see how much to outsource reading the tapes in and cleaning up the hiss & background noise, then edit and burn them myself.

Missa
 
Missa said:
Ouch! it's a little much for something I will be using once. Which is why I was thinking about outsourcing. :rolleyes: See I can't decide which would be better. There is a lot of editing that only I could do but then I don't have the equipment. I'd almost like to see how much to outsource reading the tapes in and cleaning up the hiss & background noise, then edit and burn them myself.

Missa
Click to expand...

Makes sense.

Bet you can find a neighborhood kid to do it cheaper than a production house. And I'd bet they would enjoy some of the stories (as long as you can't be charged with contributing to the delinquency....).

Spike, you're not recommending a B+H tape recorder? Oh, wait, they're not making them any more... ;):D
 
Missa said:
Ouch! it's a little much for something I will be using once. Which is why I was thinking about outsourcing. :rolleyes: See I can't decide which would be better. There is a lot of editing that only I could do but then I don't have the equipment. I'd almost like to see how much to outsource reading the tapes in and cleaning up the hiss & background noise, then edit and burn them myself.

Missa
Click to expand...

It depends on how much "outsourcing" is worth to you.

You can get a $39 USB sound card.

Your tape recorder has to have an earphone jack, right? You can use that.

Audacity is free and it has a good collection of sound filters to clear up the hiss. (Just use a high filter at 11000Hz.)
 
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mikea said:
It depends on how much "outsourcing" is worth to youy.

You can get a $39 USB sound card.

Your tape recorder has to have an earphone jack, right? You can use that.

Audacity is free and it has a good collection of sound filters to clear up the hiss. (Just use a high filter at 11000Hz.)
Click to expand...

I was just commenting on Spikes $280 (on sale from $480) tape player from the link. A bit on the pricy side. Williams $139 one is sitll a little more then I was wanting to spend. I was about to buy a $30 program but it looks like Audacity will do the same for free. I think I will be buying a new tape player with a line out since what I have is a peice of junk (I think $50 should be more then sufficent quality) and another jump drive because I don't actually have a burner (but the boyfriend does, another friend does and work has one I can use on my own time if I buy the CD's)

Missa
 
Me thinks you have a local kid friend who has an iMac G5 and could help you...
 
wsuffa said:
Bet you can find a neighborhood kid to do it cheaper than a production house. And I'd bet they would enjoy some of the stories (as long as you can't be charged with contributing to the delinquency....).
Click to expand...

Bill,

Your neighborhood kids might be tech savey enough but remember I live out in the sticks! The kids in my neighborhood know how to clean rifles but I'm not sure how good they at high tech tape players... :D

And I'm not sure about the contributing to the delinquancey... g-pa was a delinqent so listing to him would only give kids some bad ideas. :eek: Funny but baddddd....

Missa
 
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Missa said:
Bill,

Your neighborhood kids might be tech savey enough but remember I live out in the sticks! The kids in my neighborhood know how to clean rifles but I'm not sure how good they at high tech tape players... :D

And I'm not sure about the contributing to the delinquancey... g-pa was a delinqent so listing to him would only give kids some bad ideas. :eek:

Missa
Click to expand...

*points above your post*

You underestimated your neighborhood kids :P
 
wsuffa said:
...
Spike, you're not recommending a B+H tape recorder? Oh, wait, they're not making them any more... ;):D
Click to expand...

Bill, I think you know- there is no Bell & Howell any more. The entity that used to be B&H is called, "ProQuest," and they are an electronic publisher (centered around B&H's acquisition, University Microfilm International).

---

Back on-topic: I was just suggesting something better than a cheap portable tape player to play back for digitizing and archiving. You could use a decent stereo deck (you might well have one handy), but I'd recommend combining the left and right to mono, because the original recording was mono and you would likely get some extraneous noise from the playback. You might be able to mono-ize it in software, Audacity does a lot.
 
SCCutler said:
Back on-topic: I was just suggesting something better than a cheap portable tape player to play back for digitizing and archiving. You could use a decent stereo deck (you might well have one handy), but I'd recommend combining the left and right to mono, because the original recording was mono and you would likely get some extraneous noise from the playback. You might be able to mono-ize it in software, Audacity does a lot.
Click to expand...

I didn't think I had a stereo tape deck handy (I don't have one) but I just found one sitting in a closet in Ted's Mom's house :D

He's bringing it back this weekend and helping me. We will still be using the Audacity software so thanks a bunch for all the geek-opinons out there.

Missa
 
Missa said:
And you may look like a kid but get over it, you're too old to be considered a 'kid'
Click to expand...

Could you please tell everyone else that? :rolleyes:

He has a collage degree and is working as an engineer...
Click to expand...

That's right! I live in a cubicle! :D

He may look like jail bait but he's no kid.
Click to expand...

Now is that ever a back-handed compliment, seeing I'm a good 7 years past being jail bait age. Furthermore I've never heard the term jail bait referring to any member of the male species (which I still am, at least last time I checked). Are you sure I'm still bringing that tape deck back this weekend? ;)

I didn't think I had a stereo tape deck handy (I don't have one) but I just found one sitting in a closet in Ted's Mom's house :D
Click to expand...

Mom has no memory of you showing up. Did you drug her or something? ;)

He's bringing it back this weekend and helping me. We will still be using the Audacity software so thanks a bunch for all the geek-opinons out there.
Click to expand...

Why didn't you bring it back when you were at my mom's house? Now I have to drive all the way to New York to get it!
 
SCCutler said:
Man, I had no idea DAK was still around. They have clearly found the way to migrate from their incredibly-irritating print ads to incredibly-irritating web pages.
Click to expand...

:rofl: That's what I thought. Drew A. Kaplan. He still alive?

I wonder what happened to local hero Joe Sugarman, who gave birth to that "the more words the better" style and those guys who spun off from him.

I think JS&A finally got closed by the feds for repeated violations of the mail order rules, like not delivering in 30 days or allowing cancellation of the order.

One ad I would love to find, was for the "Mickey Math." It was a HUGE 4 function calculator for kids but the ad had "During the meeting, the CEO asks for total projected sales for the quarter. You pull out your Mickey Math. You have the answer! You get a raise!"

It occurs to me that today's ADD kids would NEVER get through all of the words in those ads.
 
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mikea said:
:rofl: ...
I wonder what happened to local hero Joe Sugarman, who gave birth to that "the more words the better" style and those guys who spun off from him.

I think JS&A finally got closed by the feds for repeated violations of the mail order rules, like not delivering in 30 days or allowing cancellation of the order.

One ad I would love to find, was for the "Mickey Math." It was a HUGE 4 function calculator for kids but the ad had "During the meeting, the CEO asks for total projected sales for the quarter. You pull out your Mickey Math. You have the answer! You get a raise!"

It occurs to me that today's ADD kids would NEVER get through all of the words in those ads.
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah. He infested the country with Blueblockers:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...s&a&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a
 
mikea said:
:rofl:

One ad I would love to find, was for the "Mickey Math." It was a HUGE 4 function calculator for kids but the ad had "During the meeting, the CEO asks for total projected sales for the quarter. You pull out your Mickey Math. You have the answer! You get a raise!"

It occurs to me that today's ADD kids would NEVER get through all of the words in those ads.
Click to expand...

Not the ad, but:
http://www.datamath.org/Edu/Mickey.htm
 
OK, you have found a way to get the tapes into a digital format. Is there any advantage in longevity to use DVDs rather than CDs as the target medium?

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
OK, you have found a way to get the tapes into a digital format. Is there any advantage in longevity to use DVDs rather than CDs as the target medium?

-Skip
Click to expand...

Is this a trick question???? I've already admitted that I know nothing about this... anyone else?

I'm probally going for a CD because I want people to be able to play it on a regular player not just a computer but for the master copy??? maybe if it's better and I can find a DVD burner.
 
Missa said:
I'm probally going for a CD because I want people to be able to play it on a regular player not just a computer but for the master copy??? maybe if it's better and I can find a DVD burner.
Click to expand...

You want these recordings to end up in two forms: (1) a traditional audio CD as you describe, so that anyone can listen to them, and (2) as a collection of audio files on a computer drive and data CD or DVD. It doesn't matter which - just one with sufficient capacity. Just make really, really sure that your audio files are backed up in multiple ways. Media goes bad over time, it doesn't matter what kind of media it is. If it were me I'd give everyone in the family a CD of .mp3's in addition to the audio CD. That way anyone that wants could put Grandpa in their iPod plus you have backups scattered all over the family.

Regards,
Joe
 
DVDs tend to have a longer lifespan than a CD, or at least they did. Joe's suggestion is best: audio CD(s) for playback, and a collection of mp3/wav files on a DVD for archiving.
 
Ok geeks, I'm still having trouble. Managed to record some but I can't figure out how to get the noise out w/o making g-pa sound weird. Here is a raw file... what do I do?
 

Attachments

Hmmm . . .

I'll take a look at the file.

Audacity is nice, and I did frequently use it when working in Radio, however, it really is not up to the level of the bes commercial audio suites.

I personally don't like Pro Tools, but that is a personal preference thing. I prefer Sonar and/or Audition and/or Sound Forge. The problem? All of these are expensive, Audacity is free.

Ultimately, it is very difficult to remove noise from a recording without affecting the desired sound. I have seen numerous programs claiming to do this but even the incredibly expensive ones leave audio artifacts. It is therefore important that the transfer from tape to digital is done with the highest signal to noise ratio achievable.

To get the best transfer possible, a decent quality tape deck is a must. In addition, the little 1/8" jack is really not going to provide an adequate quality. Depending on what you want to spend, either consider the USB tape deck, OR, if you already have a good quality tape deck, consider a higher quality audio interface. No matter what option you chose, you should use good quality cables and avoid crossing electrical lines and coils.

You should record at the highest sampling rate available to you (probably 48KHz).

~ Christopher
 
Missa said:
Ok geeks, I'm still having trouble. Managed to record some but I can't figure out how to get the noise out w/o making g-pa sound weird. Here is a raw file... what do I do?
Click to expand...

Well, step one would be to get rid of that annoying low hum. Shouldn't be too difficult. It probably came from power though it sounds too low to be 60Hz so I would guess 30Hz. You might want to just use Audacity to generate a 30Hz tone and compare the two to be sure. When you find the frequency, a band-block filter from 29 to 31 Hz (assuming a 30Hz hum) might do the trick.

Note that I'm not looking at Audacity and haven't touched it in over a year, so I apologize for the lack of step-by-step directions.
 
Here's two different versions:

One is fairly aggressive an removes everything but the noise of the motor in the tape player. I tried to attenuate that some, but it is in roughly the same frequency band as the voice, so . . . Unfortunately this approach somewhat changes the character of the voice.

So, method 2, the "gentle method" simply uses a frequency based noise reducer and applies a touch of gentle compression. The voice is more like the original, but there is a bit more noise. This method also picks up a tiny bit of that soapy sound that drives me nuts.

~ Christopher
 

Attachments

jwriteclub said:
Here's two different versions:

One is fairly aggressive an removes everything but the noise of the motor in the tape player. I tried to attenuate that some, but it is in roughly the same frequency band as the voice, so . . . Unfortunately this approach somewhat changes the character of the voice.

So, method 2, the "gentle method" simply uses a frequency based noise reducer and applies a touch of gentle compression. The voice is more like the original, but there is a bit more noise. This method also picks up a tiny bit of that soapy sound that drives me nuts.

~ Christopher
Click to expand...

Yea I don't like the first one. The scond one still has a lot of background. So it's the tape player I'm using huh.... maybe I should have someone profesionally transfer it then. : ( but I don't have time for this X-mas so I guess I need to come up with some other present ideas.
 
Well, not just the tape player.

Some of the motor noise may be from the original handheld that you used. In addition, some may be due deterioration of the tape coating (where the information is stored). The player, cable and Analog-Digital Converter in your PC all probably add noise.

It might well be worth it to have them professionally transfered. However, some professionals may have about the same equipment as you do, so, make sure that they're willing to do a part of one tape (first 10 minutes) so that you can evaluate their quality before you shell out any money.

~ Christopher
 
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