Garmin Pilot IFR Flight Plan Update Notifications

Mahneuvers

Mahneuvers

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Mahneuvers
I'm a relatively new IFR pilot so sorry if this is a basic question. I filed an IFR flight plan this week with a direct route. My clearance had me fly a departure procedure. I used Garmin Pilot/Leidos. I received an "your flight plan has been updated" e-mail but nothing was changed and no mention of the DP...it appears that e-mail was just telling me my "flight plan has been rogered by ARTCC". This DP was relatively easy so it wasn't a problem. If it were a complex DP, it would have been nice to have advance notice so I could review the charts etc. rather than figuring it all out prior to taxi. Should I have received an alert regarding the addition of the DP to my flight plan? I've read POA posts talking about ATC notifying them of route changes so apparently it happens....maybe DPs aren't alerted???
 
I always get that notification when it gets activated. I don't think a DP assigned by the local tower gets updated in your filed plan.
 
Check this out. You can see how my flight plan routed me to the Liberty VOR (Raleigh One DP transition). So, it would appear my flight plan, at least at some point, was updated.
 
someone smarter than me shall be along shortly to explain better than I can.

what happened to me recently is I was en route and GP will say 'your flight plan has been updated'. ATC will either issue that or not. coming back from rough river I got a GP notification of a reroute. about 30 minutes later ATC asked if I was given a re-route and I said no, I was assigned direct, which in fact I was (what if GP couldn't get connected to give me the reroute?). I can't imagine I'd fly a reroute received thru GP without hearing it from ATC. also coming back from VA, same thing, notification thru GP, nothing from ATC. kinda weird.
 
eman1200 said:
...what if GP couldn't get connected to give me the reroute...
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This thread has turned more intriguing than I expected :) My watch is paired with my Android phone running GP. My GP phone version is backup -- I almost never look at it. I recall my watch giving me a route alert, but, that's all my watch tells me -- no details. In the cockpit, I mainly use GP running on an Android tablet. For power conservation, I typically don't share my phone connection with the tablet so the main GP I'm looking at has no idea about the alert GP from my phone just received. On my next flight, I will configure my tablet to share my phone data connection and see if I then receive alerts.
 
GP gets all route updates published by FAA. Note, this is separate from a Predeparture clearance (PDC which is only offered at select fields).
Now, ATC can just give you a route, such as a DP and not bother updating the filed plan. This seems to be common when leaving a small controlled field which always gives you the same directions for hand off to departure.
Where I seem to more consistently get route updates is when I am giving a full route clearance, otherwise, I almost never get them.


Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
How does a route update notification in GP manifest? Do you have to accept it or is it automatic/assumed? Do you have to be in the Flight Plan or Map views?
 
MICHAEL MAHN said:
How does a route update notification in GP manifest? Do you have to accept it or is it automatic/assumed? Do you have to be in the Flight Plan or Map views?
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On Android, It shows up as a notification. You click on the notification, you can ignore, activate, cancel or activate and brief (not always depends on some other conditions).

Tim
 
Route updates are not a clearance. They are monitoring what is being delivered to the controller as the computer generated route. The controller does not have to issue the updated route. If you are cleared as filed, it means use the route you and only you have filed, not any updates. The route updates are simply a heads up as to what might be coming your way, but only ATC issues clearances.
 
eman1200 said:
someone smarter than me shall be along shortly to explain better than I can.

what happened to me recently is I was en route and GP will say 'your flight plan has been updated'. ATC will either issue that or not. coming back from rough river I got a GP notification of a reroute. about 30 minutes later ATC asked if I was given a re-route and I said no, I was assigned direct, which in fact I was (what if GP couldn't get connected to give me the reroute?). I can't imagine I'd fly a reroute received thru GP without hearing it from ATC. also coming back from VA, same thing, notification thru GP, nothing from ATC. kinda weird.
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Did those questions you got happen right after a frequency change?
 
I had the same questions and came to the conclusion that ATC isn’t in the loop on those route updates. When you are cleared As Filed, fly what you filed. I think those updates are computer generated suggestions and unless you update your filing, ATC doesn’t know about it. I now just file, fly what I’m cleared for, and ignore the updates.
 
John Collins said:
Route updates are not a clearance. They are monitoring what is being delivered to the controller as the computer generated route. The controller does not have to issue the updated route. If you are cleared as filed, it means use the route you and only you have filed, not any updates. The route updates are simply a heads up as to what might be coming your way, but only ATC issues clearances.
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Thanks, John!
 
eman1200 said:
Well now I’m curious what the other scenario could have been….
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The new controller after the handoff verifying you have what his strip says you have. That the previous controller, or one even earlier had given it to you. Shouldn’t be a thing but there are little glitches in the system that make it happen sometimes. Kinda the same thing that causes them to say, got an amendment your clearance advise ready to copy. Then give it to you and you’re thinking ‘WTF is wrong with those bozos down there. That’s what I already got.
 
luvflyin said:
The new controller after the handoff verifying you have what his strip says you have. That the previous controller, or one even earlier had given it to you. Shouldn’t be a thing but there are little glitches in the system that make it happen sometimes. Kinda the same thing that causes them to say, got an amendment your clearance advise ready to copy. Then give it to you and you’re thinking ‘WTF is wrong with those bozos down there. That’s what I already got.
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Sometimes it is precisely the same route over the ground, but stated differently. ATC does not know the difference and especially with preferred routes or during events such as Oshkosh, they need to clear you along the route as they have it stated on the strip. So for example, I used to get the route PMM PMM333 V510 FAH ... but there was no way to file it going to Oshkosh, so I would have to file that portion of the route as PMM PMM333063 GAYLE V510 FAH which is the identical route over the ground. Each time I neared PMM I would get the reroute.
 
eman1200 said:
this is what I expected to hear after I got the GP notification.
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There are many times that the computer spits our a route that is never used, for example direct to fix-radial-distance. The controller
just bit buckets that route as they know it will just cause confusion and you get cleared RV direct.
 
In foreflight, updated routes come in, then I call for the clearance while in the plane, I get "as filed". So I've learned to ignore those updates, what matters is what a controller clears you for. If you want the DP and the controller doesn't give it to you, tell him you want it. For ODPs, tell them you are doing it when you call for clearance.

Flying from Mass. through NY airspace pretty much guarantees two full route reroutes so, there is that too.
 
The updated routes or as ForeFlight terms them "expected routes" are simply a heads up and never a clearance. All the systems monitor the same FAA feeds that the computer uses to send and print the strip to the controller, but there is nothing that requires the controller to use the computer generated route. Controllers are still in charge and know what they need to separate IFR traffic.
 
Controllers are not permitted to clear an aircraft as filed if the filed route is revised. The strip indicates the revision. Controllers are required to read the Full Route Clearance if FRC appears in the remarks. The initial portion of the route can include a SID/ODP that was not filed or is different than the one that was filed and/or the initial portion of the route can be modified to indicate how and where to join the filed route. These initial route differences are printed with a + before and after the route difference, so the controller knows what to read to the pilot, cleared abc def then rest of route as filed. If the entire route is encapsulated in the + delimeters, then the route is not to be read "as filed". If you ever get a route "as filed" and the departure controller asks where you are going and indicates you should be on a different route, file an ASRS report with NASA as this is almost always a controller error.
 
John Collins said:
Controllers are not permitted to clear an aircraft as filed if the filed route is revised. The strip indicates the revision. Controllers are required to read the Full Route Clearance if FRC appears in the remarks. The initial portion of the route can include a SID/ODP that was not filed or is different than the one that was filed and/or the initial portion of the route can be modified to indicate how and where to join the filed route. These initial route differences are printed with a + before and after the route difference, so the controller knows what to read to the pilot, cleared abc def then rest of route as filed. If the entire route is encapsulated in the + delimeters, then the route is not to be read "as filed". If you ever get a route "as filed" and the departure controller asks where you are going and indicates you should be on a different route, file an ASRS report with NASA as this is almost always a controller error.
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Yeah. FWIW there are times when pilots are required to refuse Abbreviated Departure Clearances.

AIM
5−2−6. Abbreviated IFR Departure Clearance (Cleared. . .as Filed) Procedures
a. ATC facilities will issue an abbreviated IFR departure clearance based on the ROUTE of flight filed in the IFR flight plan, provided the filed route can be approved with little or no revision. These abbreviated clearance procedures are based on the following conditions:
1. The aircraft is on the ground or it has departed visual flight rules (VFR) and the pilot is requesting IFR clearance while airborne.
2. That a pilot will not accept an abbreviated clearance if the route or destination of a flight plan filed with ATC has been changed by the pilot or the
company or the operations officer before departure.
3. That it is the responsibility of the company or operations office to inform the pilot when they make a change to the filed flight plan.
4. That it is the responsibility of the pilot to inform ATC in the initial call-up (for clearance) when the filed flight plan has been either:
(a) Amended, or
(b) Canceled and replaced with a new filed flight plan.
NOTE−
The facility issuing a clearance may not have received the revised route or the revised flight plan by the time a pilot requests clearance.
 
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@John Collins . There's something I've been wondering about those ForeFlight notifications. If the flight has already departed and is active and a Controller makes a Route Amendment from position, does ForeFlight pick that up and send one of those notifications to the pilot. There are some things I have read in these threads that make it seem like that may be happening.
 
luvflyin said:
@John Collins . There's something I've been wondering about those ForeFlight notifications. If the flight has already departed and is active and a Controller makes a Route Amendment from position, does ForeFlight pick that up and send one of those notifications to the pilot. There are some things I have read in these threads that make it seem like that may be happening.
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Not sure about Foreflight, but I have had GP do that. I just ignore it.

Tim
 
luvflyin said:
@John Collins . There's something I've been wondering about those ForeFlight notifications. If the flight has already departed and is active and a Controller makes a Route Amendment from position, does ForeFlight pick that up and send one of those notifications to the pilot. There are some things I have read in these threads that make it seem like that may be happening.
Click to expand...

ForeFlight stops monitoring for route updates after the scheduled departure time, I don't know if there is any grace period or not.
 
ATC question.

Leaving Boston area, picking up my clearance in the air is my normal process.
I once had a controller say prepare for a full route clearance. I said ready, the controller starts reading the route off, pauses for a sec and said this will not work. Maintain VFR and a south west vector. (I was headed toward MD). Came back a minute later with a different route.

Just out of curious why the computer would be so far off that the controller would through it out and give me a completely different route. (north of NYC and effectively around NY airspace, instead of down the eastern corridor over JFK, no special TFRs in the NY area that were on my briefing on the way to the airport, always check on the way to go fly).

Tim
 
luvflyin said:
Do you somehow know that the Controller himself was the one that put it in?
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I would assume so. I have received the, prepare for amendment to your route. Then a bit later when I get cell signal again I get the notification from GP. It has only happened a couple times.

Tim
 
tspear said:
ATC question.

Leaving Boston area, picking up my clearance in the air is my normal process.
I once had a controller say prepare for a full route clearance. I said ready, the controller starts reading the route off, pauses for a sec and said this will not work. Maintain VFR and a south west vector. (I was headed toward MD). Came back a minute later with a different route.

Just out of curious why the computer would be so far off that the controller would through it out and give me a completely different route. (north of NYC and effectively around NY airspace, instead of down the eastern corridor over JFK, no special TFRs in the NY area that were on my briefing on the way to the airport, always check on the way to go fly).

Tim
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My route changes heading that way usually happen within 5 minutes after take off, at least one full route change, usually two, the second coming about 10 minutes later.
 
PaulS said:
My route changes heading that way usually happen within 5 minutes after take off, at least one full route change, usually two, the second coming about 10 minutes later.
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Yeah, that I get and is normal leaving Boston. But I can only recall a controller once start reading a clearance and then say, nope that will not work.

Tim
 
tspear said:
I would assume so. I have received the, prepare for amendment to your route. Then a bit later when I get cell signal again I get the notification from GP. It has only happened a couple times.

Tim
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Gotcha. He may have not entered the amendment into the system himself but is just giving you one that he got. It's the when the controller himself initiates and enters the amendment into the system I'm trying to figure
 
John Collins said:
ForeFlight stops monitoring for route updates after the scheduled departure time, I don't know if there is any grace period or not.
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Is it based solely on ETD(grace periods not withstanding?) Like say the plane departs before the ETD and the flight plan is now active. Controller on position enters a field 10 amendment before the ETD.
 
tspear said:
ATC question.

Leaving Boston area, picking up my clearance in the air is my normal process.
I once had a controller say prepare for a full route clearance. I said ready, the controller starts reading the route off, pauses for a sec and said this will not work. Maintain VFR and a south west vector. (I was headed toward MD). Came back a minute later with a different route.

Just out of curious why the computer would be so far off that the controller would through it out and give me a completely different route. (north of NYC and effectively around NY airspace, instead of down the eastern corridor over JFK, no special TFRs in the NY area that were on my briefing on the way to the airport, always check on the way to go fly).

Tim
Click to expand...

One thing that could cause that to happen is they just got the word that say one of the New York airports, maybe all, was swinging the boat. In major areas like that, when the big airport changes runways, the whole configuration for miles around change. Everybody, satellite airports and enroute get affected.
 
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