Garmin G1000 vs Avidyne Entegra?

[gbeaudry]

When considering buying a new aircraft these days, one is confronted with the option of choosing from formidable "glass cockpit" options. Which would you pick as between these two systems?

 

[Ken Ibold]

I'd like to learn more about the G1000. I hope it has a simpler operating logic than does the Entegra. The Entegra also had a pesky single-point failure mode in the early SR22 installation that I hope is fixed by now.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I'd like to learn more about the G1000. I hope it has a simpler operating logic than does the Entegra. The Entegra also had a pesky single-point failure mode in the early SR22 installation that I hope is fixed by now.

Ken,

I have Sporty's "Getting to know the Garmin G1000" DVD and would be happy to send it to you to watch. Sporty's also made one for the Avidyne; if anybody has it and would be willing to lend it out, I'd like to see it.

Troy

 

[Iceman]

I like the 1000 myself. More integrated and IMO will be more stable in the years to come. Every component by the same manufacture is a blessing in my opinion.

That being said I have not flown with the 1000 (limited time with the avidyne) so my opinion is probably worth less than two cents here.

 

[bbchien]

I would pay the more attention to the failure modes in the aircraft in which the display is installed. In Cessnas, for example, the G1000 will just poop out if the Voltage Control Unit poops. Single point hit, no panel.

Then I would pay attention to where the standby stuff is mounted. I would reject down and lateral postions.

Then I would choose by features, presentation and price. Then and only then.

 

[T Bone]

Great point on the backup mountings! Only one I've seen that has it right is Diamond (horizontally, just below the glareshield). I recall seeing one plane that has them all the way to the right, vertically. Bad, bad layout IMHO!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

When considering buying a new aircraft these days, one is confronted with the option of choosing from formidable "glass cockpit" options. Which would you pick as between these two systems?

IMHO, G1000, hands down.

First, the learning curve. If you can use a 430, you can use the G1000. I just started flying behind a 430 in January, and I was able to hop in Garmin's Frasca at Oshkosh, take off from MSN, set up and fly an ILS to the ground on the first try without killing myself. While the Avidyne seems to be paired with G430/530's most of the time, I was unimpressed with it when I got to play with it at the Piper booth.

Second - Reboot capability. If you somehow lose the Avidyne in the air, you're done. You can't get it back until you're on the ground. The G1000 can be air-booted provided you can use the backup instruments to hold <45 degrees of bank and I think <30 degrees pitch for ~45 seconds. However, the Avidyne does get bonus points for dual ADAHRS (though I'm not sure if this is standard in all installations.)

Third - Serviceability. Garmin's use of a modular design allows you to replace individual pieces rather than the entire system. Having something simple break and being faced with an instant $45,000 repair bill for a new PFD would really suck, and Avidyne seems to be having some reliability issues as well. Additional advantages to the Garmin here are that the majority of the "guts" can be placed anywhere in the airplane to solve (or at least avoid) w&b issues. Also, the LRU's are not airframe-specific. Most of the pieces are interchangeable, so you can take a Com radio out of a Mooney and put it in a Bonanza, a Nav radio from a Citation to a Diamond, etc.

Other than that, they seem to be relatively similar. Caveat: I've only flown with an Avidyne MFD, not the full glass; and I've never flown an actual aircraft with the Garmin. I'm just a geek who loves these gadgets and has played with them mostly on the ground and read about them a lot.

My 4 yen,

 

[Areeda]

I just found out the DA-40 can come configured with an Avidyne or a G1000, both with a Honeywell KAP-140. I have not seen an Avidyne with a KAP-140. So we do have an apples to apples comparison. I'm glad I'm not in the market for a Diamond Star.

I've flown the SR-22 with the Avidyne, Garmin 430's, and STec autopilot enough to teach in it and the T182 with the G1000, KAP-140 enough to get signed off and do approaches in it.

Now before I start I already hear people saying Garmin will come out with a solution to that soon. So to be fair either we should compare the systems as they are today or the systems as they will be next year. It's a common marketing technique in technology to answer any deficiency with an unannounced solution coming soon. This is not to say Garmin will not do everything they are hinting at (and more) very soon. It's important to compare the systems that would be delivered, unannounced products at unannouced prices with unknown delivery dates do not help on X-C trips. Like WAAS on the 430/530.

The biggest difference in my opinion is the integration of the autopilot. In a G1000 you have to enter the altimeter setting in 3 places (G1000, KAP-140, backup Altimeter) but 2 in the Entegra. You have to enter the target altitude and climb/descent rate in 2 places (G1000 and KAP-140) vs the 1 in the Avidyne (the PFD). Then the autopilot themsleves, what about HDG-NAV-NAV on the STec, fly heading bug to intercept the course in the GPS flight plan.

That said, I do love both systems, they are bot excellent products, I see pluses and minuses in both (some are listed in the AOPA board this was cross posted to). As an aside what it the etiquette for replying to cross posts? Do you post your replies in both places?

Garmin is playing catch up right now (they are good at it). The difference in product maturity is obvious but both are changing rapidly.

This brings me to my big question on Glass Panels in general. The Cirrus out there with 6-pack panels took a big hit on resale value when the glass came out. In the next few years at least and probably from now on we will be seeing great advances in the Glass panels on a regular basis. How long will the glass panels of today be upgradable at reasonable prices to the glass panels of tomorrow? IOW are we going to have to sell our airplane with a 2005 G1000 to get a 2007 G2000 (like it worked with a 2003 SR22 to a 2005 SR22)?

Joe

 

[Ken Ibold]

As an aside what it the etiquette for replying to cross posts? Do you post your replies in both places?

There are people here who don't go there and people there who don't come here. Say what you have to say in whatever place you happen to be at the time.

 

[river_rat]

IMHO, G1000, hands down.

Second - Reboot capability. If you somehow lose the Avidyne in the air, you're done. You can't get it back until you're on the ground. The G1000 can be air-booted provided you can use the backup instruments to hold <45 degrees of bank and I think <30 degrees pitch for ~45 seconds. However, the Avidyne does get bonus points for dual ADAHRS (though I'm not sure if this is standard in all installations.)

I have "rebooted" in the air 2 times with the Avidyne after doing
partial panel work and both times it came back up with no problems.

greg

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I have "rebooted" in the air 2 times with the Avidyne after doing partial panel work and both times it came back up with no problems.

Greg,

I'm not familiar with the procedures for doing partial panel with the Avidyne... Are you turning off the entire system, or just the displays? IE, is the ADAHRS actually powered down? I ask because even Avidyne doesn't claim to be air-rebootable.

 

[Areeda]

Are you turning off the entire system, or just the displays? IE, is the ADAHRS actually powered down? I ask because even Avidyne doesn't claim to be air-rebootable.

Partial panel can be practiced either way. If you pull the PFD circuit breakers you get the failsafe mode where the autopilot is connected to GPS1 and the altitude, VS are set on the STec. Dimming the PFD is good for practicing hand flying on the stand by instruments but the AP is still controlled by the PFD.

Whether the PFD will reboot or not, I haven't seen it yet, it's not guarenteed and so I would only do this in VFR where it doesn't matter.

Avidyne is also promising to be able to do air restarts, and integrate their own GPS with the units. So if you're going compare G1000 with future upgrades you should be comparing them to Avidynes with future upgrades. Otherwise compare G1000's as installed to Avidynes as installed. That is only fair.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Avidyne is also promising to be able to do air restarts, and integrate their own GPS with the units. So if you're going compare G1000 with future upgrades you should be comparing them to Avidynes with future upgrades. Otherwise compare G1000's as installed to Avidynes as installed. That is only fair.

I am - Garmin has had air-reboot from day one. The only planned future upgrade I know of is the autopilot, which I have not mentioned at all. My comments are based on the G1000 as it's been since its introduction.

 

[river_rat]

Greg,

I'm not familiar with the procedures for doing partial panel with the Avidyne... Are you turning off the entire system, or just the displays? IE, is the ADAHRS actually powered down? I ask because even Avidyne doesn't claim to be air-rebootable.

Pulled the circuit breaker. I know they don't claim to be air-rebootable but
it does work if you fly straight and level.


greg