GA Airplane question: Good All-around airplane

Mooney M20J. 150+kt TAS @ 8.5gph. Plenty of space for 2 people + baggage. I think a 1984+ with the removable backseats are the best. :D
 
MSPAviator said:
Mooney M20J. 150+kt TAS @ 8.5gph. Plenty of space for 2 people + baggage. I think a 1984+ with the removable backseats are the best. :D
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I think you need more color in your map signature :goofy:
 
So wait a second guys. People who fly the Cirrus aren't considered "aviators" or for some reason aren't considered legit pilots among the community?
 
Well, Gort hasn't been on the board since 2011. I guess we'll never find out what he got....
 
The difference in lifetime limits has to do with the difference in inspection requirements. Both are valid approaches. Cirrus chose to avoid invasive inspection requirements. The lifetime can be extended with more testing and there is already a history of extending the airframe life. However, if you fly 200 hours per year, 12,000 hours is 60 years. Doesn't the DA-40 have much more extensive inspection requirement including removing the wings? I believe the more extensive inspections are at 1,000 and 2,000 hour intervals. That's a long time interval which is why I say either approach seems reasonable.
 
But the incidence of post-crash fires in the Cirri is quite high.
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Am I the only data driven person? Where does this come from? Data? I've looked. The Diamond is excellent and so far seems statistically better than other aircraft but a Cirrus is not worse than, for example, a Cessna 206. The only thing that will stand out if you look at Cirrus data is an issue with brake fires form people riding the brakes. This has pretty much disappeared with larger brakes, temp sensors and awareness.

Before posting baseless facts please take a stroll through the NTSB database.
 
If you want to look at real sources of differences start with stall speed and max gross. Kinetic energy on landing shows good correlation to the percentage of accidents that are fatals.

Then again I fly a Cirrus so I guess I'm not an aviator. Crap, over 1200 hours and still not a part of the group. I do ride along ion my friend's V-tail a lot. Does that count?

As for the Cirrus safety rate, I did an interesting exercise. I assumed (big potential flaw here) that BE36 aircraft are flown IFR vs. VFR in the same ratio as the SR22. That allows using Flightaware numbers to compare flying time. If you count chute pulls as fatals then the BE36 (Bonanza A26) rate is about the same as the SR22. Also, according to the NTSB, if you break out personal and business flying (removes instruction and professional crews) from GA, then the Cirrus accident rate is below average.

In case you can't tell, I'll be blunt. I like Diamond. They are very safe planes with very benign flying characteristics. I find the ergonomics quirky but that is a personal taste issue. I have short arms and legs compared to torso so the fixed seat doesn't work for me. My problem is that people don't stop with "Diamonds are excellent and have a great safety record." They then proceed to slam Cirrus with incorrect data.
 
peppy said:
Before posting baseless facts please take a stroll through the NTSB database.
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You mean "baseless innuendo" or "OWT" perhaps, not "facts". Beacuse facts are facts.
 
alaskaflyer said:
I'd just bite the bullet and buy a pre-V35 Bonanza before I'd ever consider a Sierra. Some folks think the S35 is the sweet spot in the older models for payload, comfort and performance.

I'd hate to be considering stuffing a golf bag down through the luggage hatch in a Mooney. And the Bonanza has the best prop clearance of almost any of the models mentioned so far if you want to tackle some easy backcountry strips :)
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i'm one of those people. The S35 is the pinnacle of 4-seat single engine rides. There has never been anything as all around good since. That said, the v35 and any Comanche 250/60 are virtually as good.
 
CJones said:
Cardinal RG would be a good fit for 2 ppl + stuff. Nice barn-door sized doors makes getting you and stuff loaded/unloaded pretty easy. Roomy cabin, though not as wide as the 182. 200hp IO360 will get you ~140ktas on ~10.5gph. Not as much of a workhorse as the 182, especially in high DA or short strips, but still pretty capable.
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The C177 cabin is 48 inches wide.

The C182 cabin is 44 inches wide.

And the C177 rear mounted wing gives the pilot a great deal more visiblity than ordinary high wing Cessnas. The C177 can lift four 180 pound adults.

You're right about the barn doors for sure:

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Even though the useful loads are similar, the C182 is to be preferred for lifting heavy loads, flying off of pavement, or flying at high DA's. Our first generation C177RG can't cruise as fast as 140, 135 is more realistic. I think they did some cleanup on the latter model years to give the Cardinal a bit more speed.
 
peppy said:
Doesn't the DA-40 have much more extensive inspection requirement including removing the wings? I believe the more extensive inspections are at 1,000 and 2,000 hour intervals. That's a long time interval which is why I say either approach seems reasonable.
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IIRC the wings-off inspect is optional. The big required item is new rudder cables every 7 years, but the cost is less than 1 AMU.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
IIRC the wings-off inspect is optional. The big required item is new rudder cables every 7 years, but the cost is less than 1 AMU.
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More like 2 AMU every 5 years, but they made it "on condition" starting this year. Right after I changed mine, naturally
 
eman1200 said:
I think you need more color in your map signature :goofy:
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You're right, I do need more color on my map. I'll do it as soon as I finish this and get my leather jacket:

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/aero/aved/Passportprogram/Passport.html

As it stands right now, I'm about 75% of the way there. :D


Oh, if I was paying for Bonanza style fuel burn, no way would I pick a Piper Commanche. I'd have a Bonanza or Debonair. I love the fully enclosed gear doors on the 'Bo. The Commanche is a little homely looking and reminds me too much of an Arrow. Sorry. :)
 
MSPAviator said:
Oh, if I was paying for Bonanza style fuel burn, no way would I pick a Piper Commanche. I'd have a Bonanza or Debonair. I love the fully enclosed gear doors on the 'Bo. The Commanche is a little homely looking and reminds me too much of an Arrow. Sorry. :)
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Meh... Comanches have a style to them, too. They also tend to have a much lower price tag than an equivalent Bo, and I'd rather spend the extra money flying. Speed difference from the lack of inner gear doors is minimal, provided you have the single-sided fork and, if an early model, the brakes reversed to the inside as well.
 
moonshine said:
More like 2 AMU every 5 years, but they made it "on condition" starting this year. Right after I changed mine, naturally
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Of course!

And... Sweet! I guess... And you're right, it was 5 years, our plane is newer than I was thinking. ;) We have a 2006 and had it done in 2011. Now that I look back it was $1200 or so. Still, pretty much in the realm of noise when it comes to aviation maintenance. Glad it's no longer required, though.

BTW, how can it be "on condition" when the only way to check the condition of the entire thing is to cut 'em and pull 'em out? :dunno:
 
Well...I'll toss in my recommendation. Go with a helicopter:

For the money we are talking about here you can get a new R44, used R66, or a wonderful MD500. Hourly might be a little more expensive but the possibilities are endless. Happy flying!
 
Gary F said:
The rudder cable replacement is no longer required. It was every 5 years for the DA40 but they changed the rule a few months after I had mine replaced for the second time. http://www.diamondaviators.net/forum/no-more-rudder-cable-replacements-t4461.html
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Given the issues with dissimilar metals corrosion in swaged cables on Piper aircraft lately, I dont think the replacement schedule is entirely crazy. 5 years seems awfully short, but 15-20 is probably a good idea.
 
weilke said:
Given the issues with dissimilar metals corrosion in swaged cables on Piper aircraft lately, I dont think the replacement schedule is entirely crazy. 5 years seems awfully short, but 15-20 is probably a good idea.
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Even 10 or 12 years would not be unreasonable in my opinion. A lot of perfectly good cables (including 2 sets from my airplane) were sacrificed before Diamond determined that 5 years was ridiculous.
 
HeliNomad said:
Well...I'll toss in my recommendation. Go with a helicopter:

For the money we are talking about here you can get a new R44, used R66, or a wonderful MD500. Hourly might be a little more expensive but the possibilities are endless. Happy flying!
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What's the longest trip you've done in your chopper?
 
LJS1993 said:
What's the longest trip you've done in your chopper?
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Some people fly halfway across Siberia in Mi-8. Not saying it's a good idea, but additional fuel tanks are used on those lines. A month ago a Mi-8 full of middle-schoolers went down some 1000 km south-west of Yakutsk, 4 survived out of 28 onboard.
 
JimNtexas said:
Even though the useful loads are similar, the C182 is to be preferred for lifting heavy loads,
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I haven't come across many 177s that lift more than 1200lbs, this may be why 182 are preferred for heavy loads.

177RG is moderately faster with a lower fuel burn however.
 
zaitcev said:
Some people fly halfway across Siberia in Mi-8. Not saying it's a good idea, but additional fuel tanks are used on those lines. A month ago a Mi-8 full of middle-schoolers went down some 1000 km south-west of Yakutsk, 4 survived out of 28 onboard.
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I've done only 4.5 hours in an Mi-8 with auxiliary fuel. I've done 8 hours but that included 2 stops for hot gas. I'm a non-rated crewmember on an Mi-8, btw, not a pilot.
 
LJS1993 said:
What's the longest trip you've done in your chopper?
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Four Russians are crossing from Faroe Islands to Keflavik as we speak in a flight of two R66 :eek: on their round the world flight :yikes: but that's rather extreme

PS But they are crazy. Same dude took a R66 to the North Pole a couple of months ago.
 
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