G5 AI to Century IIII AP

[AA5Bman]

This topic has been hashed out a bit already, but in all my searching can't find an answer to this specific question, does anyone happen to know:

1) The basic question is: Is there any way to get a G5 *AI* to drive a Century III autopilot?

2) The more nuanced question is: Separate from the above, I have read about a lot of people having success using a G5 DG/HSI to drive their Century III in "heading mode". Here's the part that I haven't found a definitive answer on: when the Century III is getting heading info from the G5 DG/HSI, does it ALSO need to be connected to a AI that is giving it roll info, or is the G5 DG/HSI *alone* enough? People have written about this scenario, but it hasn't been clear to me whether or not their AP is still connected to their old-school AI or to a G5 AI, or to no AI at all.

Thanks!

 

[Bob Weber]

CIII relies on an attitude input for both pitch and roll, it also uses lateral navigation information thru it's radio coupler. Depending on the radio coupler, it will feed Heading or Course/CDI information. The real question is what has been certified and published as an acceptable interface. Pretty sure you will need to keep the 52D67(M) for the attitude input.

 

[AA5Bman]

CIII relies on an attitude input for both pitch and roll, it also uses lateral navigation information thru it's radio coupler. Depending on the radio coupler, it will feed Heading or Course/CDI information. The real question is what has been certified and published as an acceptable interface. Pretty sure you will need to keep the 52D67(M) for the attitude input.

Unfortunately, I suspect you’re right, but I haven’t been able to figure this out definitively. For what it’s worth, I don’t have pitch control on my autopilot, just heading.

I guess you could rephrase my question a little bit: when the autopilot is on “heading” mode and following the heading bug, does it still need input on attitude from an AI? If the answer is “yes”, I think that would mean I’m probably stuck with the old AI.

 

[asicer]

I guess you could rephrase my question a little bit: when the autopilot is on “heading” mode and following the heading bug, does it still need input on attitude from an AI? If the answer is “yes”, I think that would mean I’m probably stuck with the old AI.

Yes, and yes.

That's one of the great hopes of the upcoming uAvionix AV30. It will supposedly provide attitude to old autopilots so you can ditch your old AI.

 

[AA5Bman]

Yes, and yes.

That's one of the great hopes of the upcoming uAvionix AV30. It will supposedly provide attitude to old autopilots so you can ditch your old AI.

Darn, but thank you.

 

[Bob Weber]

Unfortunately, I suspect you’re right, but I haven’t been able to figure this out definitively. For what it’s worth, I don’t have pitch control on my autopilot, just heading.

I guess you could rephrase my question a little bit: when the autopilot is on “heading” mode and following the heading bug, does it still need input on attitude from an AI? If the answer is “yes”, I think that would mean I’m probably stuck with the old AI.

You have CIIII as the subject of the beginning of this issue. Perhaps you will get better advice if you can identify what you actually are dealing with.

What autopilot is in your aircraft?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

This topic has been hashed out a bit already, but in all my searching can't find an answer to this specific question, does anyone happen to know:

1) The basic question is: Is there any way to get a G5 *AI* to drive a Century III autopilot?

2) The more nuanced question is: Separate from the above, I have read about a lot of people having success using a G5 DG/HSI to drive their Century III in "heading mode". Here's the part that I haven't found a definitive answer on: when the Century III is getting heading info from the G5 DG/HSI, does it ALSO need to be connected to a AI that is giving it roll info, or is the G5 DG/HSI *alone* enough? People have written about this scenario, but it hasn't been clear to me whether or not their AP is still connected to their old-school AI or to a G5 AI, or to no AI at all.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're stuck with the old AI. The G5 HSI *can* feed the Century autopilot heading and course deviation, but you cannot get rid of the old AI. I'm in the same boat with my KFC 150. The G5 AI does not provide attitude to autopilots.

The folks with S-TEC autopilots (which are rate-based, not attitude-based) can replace both AI and HSI with G5s, but they'll have to keep their S-TEC turn coordinators.

 

[MajorTurbulence]

Yes, and yes.

That's one of the great hopes of the upcoming uAvionix AV30. It will supposedly provide attitude to old autopilots so you can ditch your old AI.

Exactly right. Hopefully when my AI or vacuum pump craps out next, the AV-30 will be certified with the legacy autopilot AI interface available. That is the limiting factor if I want to retain my legacy Piper Autocontrol III B (Century) and get rid of the vacuum system.

 

[Pilotronics]

No. But an ASPEN E5 with an EA100 autopilot adapter will.

 

[AA5Bman]

Yeah, I started looking into this... those Aspen units + autopilot converter are way more expensive than the G5’s. And at the E5 level you don’t even get the HSI and I doubt, therefore, that you’d get the GPSS steering either that the G5’s offer. I don’t see how the Aspen units compete anymore.

I’m now trying to figure out if the G3X or G500 screens will drive an attitude based autopilot - does anyone happen to know?

Also, say the AV30 will drive the attitude based autopilot. Would I be able to pull out the vacuum system if I used the AV30 for the AI and the G5 DG/HSI for my DG? Is the AV30 a primary replacement? If I were to pair this setup to a (for instance) GTN 650, would I lose any functionality that would have been available had I gone with dual G5’s?

 

[MajorTurbulence]

No. But an ASPEN E5 with an EA100 autopilot adapter will.

The problem with the EA100 is not that it won’t give the AI data to the auto pilot, it would, but it’s cost is one factor. The other monetary factor is that if you have not updated to the Aspen Max(or buy an E5), you still need another AI by STC. The AV30 would satisfy both at a probable bargain price. I also like having a second AI as backup in any situation, whether I remove the vacuum system or not.

 

[Fracpilot]

I have a Century 2000 and called Aspen regarding this before my panel upgrade. Essentially, it was going to cost $12k to do the Basic Aspen with the EA100, ACU and allow me to get rid of my vacuum system. It was also going to require more work for the mechanic.

Instead I went with the dual G5’s and kept the vacuum AI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[asicer]

I’m now trying to figure out if the G3X or G500 screens will drive an attitude based autopilot - does anyone happen to know?

I looked into this briefly and am pretty sure the answer is "no".

Also, say the AV30 will drive the attitude based autopilot. Would I be able to pull out the vacuum system if I used the AV30 for the AI and the G5 DG/HSI for my DG?
Is the AV30 a primary replacement?

Probably. It depends on what the STC will say.

If I were to pair this setup to a (for instance) GTN 650, would I lose any functionality that would have been available had I gone with dual G5’s?

AV30 won't display CDI/VDI. You'll have to look down at the G5 HSI for that.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I don’t see how the Aspen units compete anymore.

They're not competing very well at this point. Aspen needs to make some major moves to remain viable in the market. It's a small market, and there is probably not enough room for more than one competitor to Garmin, and Dynon seems to have taken over that slot from Aspen IMO.

I’m now trying to figure out if the G3X or G500 screens will drive an attitude based autopilot - does anyone happen to know?

I looked into this briefly and am pretty sure the answer is "no".

Not quite. The G500 TXi (and the G500 from before it) can both provide attitude to an attitude-based autopilot via the GAD43e adapter.

The G3X cannot. It was designed for the experimental market (that's what the X stands for), not as a retrofit. Because of that, it was designed to be installed in brand-new aircraft, so it wasn't designed to drive legacy autopilots.

It does drive the GFC 500, though - And having both a G3X Touch and a G5 gives you something pretty compelling: TWO systems that can both act as the brains of the GFC 500 autopilot. If you lose either one of them, your autopilot is still fully operational. It is the only such combination in GA where you can lose either your primary or your backup and NOT lose your autopilot. Pretty amazing level of redundancy for small piston aircraft!

Also, say the AV30 will drive the attitude based autopilot. Would I be able to pull out the vacuum system if I used the AV30 for the AI and the G5 DG/HSI for my DG? Is the AV30 a primary replacement?

At this point, anything that we can say about the AV30 is speculation. Until it gets certified, I would not make any plans based on it.

 

[AA5Bman]

Hmmm... well, on one hand I feel like I’m letting my ancient Century IIB (it’s actually a IIB as it turns out, but the same issues still apply) be the tail that wags the dog in terms of this possible panel upgrade. On the other hand, having to replace the autopilot is probably a $10k task, so it’s worth a bit of work to figure out if there’s an option here.

I got in touch with a Garmin dealer local to me and asked them to figure out what would work with the Century. If I have to pay up and go to the G500 Txi just to get the autopilot support, it seems like it might make sense to spend that money investing in a new GFC500 paired with something slightly less expensive like G5’s or a G3X. I’ll let all you attitude-based autopilot people know if I come up with any new ideas when I hear back from them.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Hmmm... well, on one hand I feel like I’m letting my ancient Century IIB (it’s actually a IIB as it turns out, but the same issues still apply) be the tail that wags the dog in terms of this possible panel upgrade. On the other hand, having to replace the autopilot is probably a $10k task, so it’s worth a bit of work to figure out if there’s an option here.

I got in touch with a Garmin dealer local to me and asked them to figure out what would work with the Century. If I have to pay up and go to the G500 Txi just to get the autopilot support, it seems like it might make sense to spend that money investing in a new GFC500 paired with something slightly less expensive like G5’s or a G3X. I’ll let all you attitude-based autopilot people know if I come up with any new ideas when I hear back from them.

The cheapest glass that works with the old autopilots is still the Aspen Pro with EA100. Probably $12K.
Dual G5s with GFC500 is going to be $20K+, exact price depending on whether you go for the electric autotrim and/or yaw damper options - But you get a brand new, much nicer autopilot.
G3X + G5 + GFC 500 with YD and autotrim is going to be about $45K all in. (I got a quote for this a few months ago.)
G500 TXi + G5 and keeping the existing autopilot is going to be just slightly cheaper - Probably $40K when all is said and done, but you'll still have an ancient autopilot.

 

[asicer]

The cheapest glass that works with the old autopilots is still the Aspen Pro with EA100. Probably $12K.
Dual G5s with GFC500 is going to be $20K+, exact price depending on whether you go for the electric autotrim and/or yaw damper options - But you get a brand new, much nicer autopilot.
G3X + G5 + GFC 500 with YD and autotrim is going to be about $45K all in. (I got a quote for this a few months ago.)

If it's for an AA5B then YD and autotrim are not available options. Is this for an AA5B @AA5Bman ?