future of light sport?

GeorgeC

GeorgeC

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GeorgeC
It's been 12 years since the LSA rule. Is there a shot at expanding the definition, say, to include 800kg MGW, to rope in the 152s/da20s/etc? Or is it a dead end in the wake of medical reform?
 
hope they leave it alone . look how the totally messed up the 3rd class med thing
 
hotprops said:
hope they leave it alone . look how the totally messed up the 3rd class med thing
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Uh, I'm not sure I understand. LSA is about airplanes. Sport Pilot and medical stuff is about people.

Anyway, one thing I love about LSA is I can do my own maintenance legally and safely. It is getting harder to find A&Ps, especially those who know fabric work. I'm strongly considering buying a self-launch glider and a major - maybe the overriding issue is whether I can get it certificated as SLSA or ELSA.

Oh, yes, I, too would love some expansion of LSA rules. I'm not optimistic about any change and am proceeding as if there won't be one. I'd support the effort to expand LSA if it were organized.
 
jnmeade said:
Uh, I'm not sure I understand. LSA is about airplanes. Sport Pilot and medical stuff is about people.

Anyway, one thing I love about LSA is I can do my own maintenance legally and safely. It is getting harder to find A&Ps, especially those who know fabric work. I'm strongly considering buying a self-launch glider and a major - maybe the overriding issue is whether I can get it certificated as SLSA or ELSA.

Oh, yes, I, too would love some expansion of LSA rules. I'm not optimistic about any change and am proceeding as if there won't be one. I'd support the effort to expand LSA if it were organized.
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An owner (who's a pilot) can do preventative maintenance on a certificated non-LSA airplane also.
 
I would love to see an increase in GTOW. I'm convinced that if the C162 had a GTOW increase it would be a much more useful airplane. It clearly can take the weight. I fly it at gross all the time and it still climbs at 1,000fpm on a hot day.
 
paflyer said:
An owner (who's a pilot) can do preventative maintenance on a certificated non-LSA airplane also.
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They said maintenance. NOT preventative maintenance. Looks like E-LSA and S-LSA you can do it all after completing a course. Exception seems to be use for hire where the 100-hr inspection regime kicks in and that seems to require an A&P.

My gal is E-AB. I can sign everything except the annual because I am not the builder and not eligible for the repairman's certificate.
 
rolivi said:
They said maintenance. NOT preventative maintenance. Looks like E-LSA and S-LSA you can do it all after completing a course. Exception seems to be use for hire where the 100-hr inspection regime kicks in and that seems to require an A&P.

My gal is E-AB. I can sign everything except the annual because I am not the builder and not eligible for the repairman's certificate.
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A Light Sport Repairman (LSRM-A) can do all repairs and inspections, including 100hr inspections, on any Light Sport Aircraft (That's S-LSA and E-LSA, not standard category airplanes which a Light Sport pilot can fly, such as a cub or champ.) There's a 120 hr. course and test to acquire this certificate.
 
Cogito said:
A Light Sport Repairman (LSRM-A) can do all repairs and inspections, including 100hr inspections, on any Light Sport Aircraft (That's S-LSA and E-LSA, not standard category airplanes which a Light Sport pilot can fly, such as a cub or champ.) There's a 120 hr. course and test to acquire this certificate.
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I was just reading about this yesterday. Interesting.
 
On re-reading... and great if you know, is the difference between S-LSA and E-LSA is that the course is 120hrs instead of 16hrs?

I'd factor that if I was going LSA since I would never use for hire so I'd take the E train.
 
There's the 16 hour Light Sport Repair-Inspection class that allows you to get the repairman certificate for an E-LSA that you own. That lets you perform and the condition inspection and return the plane to service.

Then there's the longer 120 hour LSRM-A class that lets you do any maintenance, repair and inspection on any LSA, whether it's yours or not, S-LSA or E-LSA.

If you own an E-LSA you (or anyone else) can do any or all of the maintenance and repair, or make any modifications you want without any certificate or special training. You just can't do the condition inspection without the repairman's certificate, OR an A&P certificate. Doesn't need to be A&P-IA, just A&P or the repairman certificate. Of course if a modification takes it outside the LSA parameters you would have to convert it to E-AB, which can be done, but if so it can never again be LSA.


Confused yet? :)
 
DaleB said:
Of course if a modification takes it outside the LSA parameters you would have to convert it to E-AB, which can be done, but if so it can never again be LSA.
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Dale, are you saying I could convert my S-LSA an EAB? I thought one had to build 51% of a plane for it to be EAB. I'd like you to be correct, can you refer us to documentation on this, please?
 
IIRC, you can convert your SLSA to an ELSA.
 
GeorgeC said:
IIRC, you can convert your SLSA to an ELSA.
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This I know is true. But if one could convert an S-LSA to EAB there might be many benefits including greater speed and useful load. What's the benefit of converting an S-LSA to E-LSA unless the manufacturer is out of business or won't write LOA's?
 
labbadabba said:
I would love to see an increase in GTOW. I'm convinced that if the C162 had a GTOW increase it would be a much more useful airplane. It clearly can take the weight. I fly it at gross all the time and it still climbs at 1,000fpm on a hot day.
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Performance is often not the limiting factor when determining max gross - structure is.
 
Cogito said:
What's the benefit of converting an S-LSA to E-LSA unless the manufacturer is out of business or won't write LOA's?
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1) Ability to make modifications and parts substitutions without Letters of Authorization from the factory - which can be hard to get and/or expensive.

2) The ability for anyone to work on the plane.

3) The ability to do your own Annual Condition Inspections with just a 16-hour course.

I converted my Sky Arrow in 2009 and have no regrets. Changes the whole nature of the owner experience.
 
Las was rubbish from the start. If they had increased the weight limit to include the one fiddy and similar then life would be peachy. Now you have a bunch of rotting airplane corpses and manufacturers that lost their asses of the whole useless affair. The airplanes that fit well into the category are not the ones new pilots want to fly, the lsa that are twenty or thirty grand are nothing that new to the sport pilots really want and the ones they want are well over a hundred grand. I don't think they did their homework when they wrote this out and it has been a dud since day one.
People wanted a cheap alternative to a ppl and what they got was a slightly cheaper ppl with none of the fun and much more expensive machines to purchase.
 
FastEddieB said:
1) Ability to make modifications and parts substitutions without Letters of Authorization from the factory - which can be hard to get and/or expensive.

2) The ability for anyone to work on the plane.

3) The ability to do your own Annual Condition Inspections with just a 16-hour course.

I converted my Sky Arrow in 2009 and have no regrets. Changes the whole nature of the owner experience.
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Sounds like E-LSA is working for you, Eddie, I'm glad. Personally, I've found getting an LOA easy enough (I have a good relationship with the manufacturer) and never considered the 120 hr. course a burden (had a great time learning to repair, maintain, and inspect small aircraft.)
 
Cogito said:
Dale, are you saying I could convert my S-LSA an EAB? I thought one had to build 51% of a plane for it to be EAB. I'd like you to be correct, can you refer us to documentation on this, please?
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Sorry, I mis-stated that. You can build it as an E-AB, but you can't convert it there from E-LSA. You can convert S-LSA to E-LSA, but I don't think either one can be made E-AB.

But also remember, you specifically do not have to build 51% of an amateur built airplane for it to be registered E-AB. It's just that 51% of it has to be built by amateur builders. Plenty of guys buy projects that are more than half done and still register them as experimental amateur-built. You may have a little more work convincing the FAA to give you the repairman certificate, but that's a separate issue.
 
Don't hold your breath waiting for any significant change in the LSA limits. The ultralight crowd has been talking for thirty years about an increase from the 254# empty weight limit, and that ain't gonna happen, either.

LSA started mainly as a way to get all the "fat" ultralights (overweight ones and 2-seaters) legal. The FAA wanted to end "rulemaking by exemption", i.e. get rid of the widely abused "training" exemption for 2 seat ultralights. Along the way, the rulemaking got hijacked by the larger aircraft manufacturers, in particular all the European plastic airplane makers, and left the ultralighters high and dry without a viable way to safely train, since nobody can afford what a 2 seat "ultralight like" plane now costs under the new rules.
 
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