Fuel Tank FOD

B

bigblockz8

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
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Display name:
Gore
I was starting my training again today and found some prizes in the fuel tank. Here's the story:

I was scheduled to fly from 8am-10am. Got to the airport at 7am via bike. Got the keys and went to preflight, a person taps me on my shoulder. There was a mix up and he now has my aircraft for 8am-12pm, no one told me. All other a/c are busy so I am SOL. He's a CFI candidate and offers me the chance to fly his 4hr slot, he needs the practice and his check is Tuesday. This is his final right seat flight. I agree of course. I also call my CFI to tell him to go back to sleep, he says he'll meet me at noon and we'll do a supervised solo. I'm excited! :D

He preflights since he is PIC and we taxi out. I hear the normal splashing of avgas but I am hearing a ping. I ask him if he hears it and he shuts off the engine. We both hear it. He decides to do a trip around the pattern. I fly it and I must say, he taught me new stuff in just eight minutes. Greaser of a landing and I'm happy and he's confident. I still hear pinging!

I ask if we can taxi back and he agrees that he wants to find what's wrong as well. We both pick the tanks and there it is! A flashlight and fuel stick in the left tank!

Bye bye flight. It made sense why none of those were in the aircraft now. Someone apparently dropped the stick and I'm guessing they got a light and looked for it...Glad that the flashlight didn't start a fire or anything.

WHO LEAVES A FLASHLIGHT IN A FUEL TANK!?!?!? On top of that how do you drop the stick inside? They must have slid it a certain way to have "lost" it. The aircraft was taken into the hangar. I assume they drain the 100LL and fish the stuff out?

To further ruin the day I waited around until noon when my CFI was going to show. Sat there until almost 4 pm! Then he called and said he wouldn't be able to make our new 12pm-2pm flight...I asked why he's calling at 3:44 pm to tell me and he said,"Oh yeah well I forgot but I went out to eat at like 12 instead. That food was good." Bye bye new CFI.

Has anyone ever dropped stuff into a fuel tank? I am still confused on how they did so!
 
Well, Greg, at least after this, you'll never drop a fuel dipstick into a tank. It's easy and happens in a flash.

At a lot of clubs, the dipstick is chained to a flat piece of plywood that is at least 4"x4".
 
bbchien said:
Well, Greg, at least after this, you'll never drop a fuel dipstick into a tank. It's easy and happens in a flash.

At a lot of clubs, the dipstick is chained to a flat piece of plywood that is at least 4"x4".
Click to expand...

I have also learned not to bring a non watertight and small pocket sized flashlight near the opening. I still wonder why the flashlight was still on and how that didn't= KABOOM!
 
bigblockz8 said:
I have also learned not to bring a non watertight and small pocket sized flashlight near the opening. I still wonder why the flashlight was still on and how that didn't= KABOOM!
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Not enough oxygen in the tank (displaced by fuel vapors), or not enough heat or spark.
 
bigblockz8 said:
I have also learned not to bring a non watertight and small pocket sized flashlight near the opening. I still wonder why the flashlight was still on and how that didn't= KABOOM!
Click to expand...
Greg, it is unlikely (although not impossible) for a flashlight to cause an explosion.

The fuel gauge senders in the typical spam-can plane are not sealed. They are likely to produce sparks in the ullage* routinely. They don't cause explosions because the fuel air mixture is too rich for that to happen.

*Ullage = the volume of the tank above the level of the fuel.

-Skip
 
Is this a flying club or a flight school? The CFI commits to a noon show and decides to go to lunch instead? It's time for a new CFI, hope the candidate passes and offer to be his first student.

Strange they would give you the keys knowing it was rescheduled to someone else.

I hope the old CFIs lunch date (she?) was worth it to lose a student and maybe a job with the flight school.
 
I've heard clunking in my fuel tanks since I bought the plane. Makes me curious if there is something splashing around in there. Never thought anything of it until now.
 
BillTIZ said:
Is this a flying club or a flight school? The CFI commits to a noon show and decides to go to lunch instead? It's time for a new CFI, hope the candidate passes and offer to be his first student.

Strange they would give you the keys knowing it was rescheduled to someone else.

I hope the old CFIs lunch date (she?) was worth it to lose a student and maybe a job with the flight school.
Click to expand...

It's a school. They gave me the keys because I was the first to ask for them. Walked in and said I had the aircraft from 8-10,the guy handed me the keys and slip. And yes, new CFI time, yet again. I didn't mind him blowing me off when his child was due in the next couple hours but lunch, really? Sent a complaint to the chief CFI.
 
Someone needs to rewind the schedule and find out who flew that plane last at night... I would then take them out back and kick the **** out of them for

1- dropping stuff in the tanks...
2- Not telling anyone about it....

And the flight club /school needs to ban that pilot from EVER using their planes again.. IMHO :yesnod:
 
I think you need to stick with a CFI for a little while. After awhile you will get a reputation and noone will want you as a student. I only ever quit flying with 1 CFI, and that was just because our schedules never meshed. He was a great instructor and pilot, but he had students already when my schedule was good to fly.
 
DavidWhite said:
I think you need to stick with a CFI for a little while. After awhile you will get a reputation and noone will want you as a student. I only ever quit flying with 1 CFI, and that was just because our schedules never meshed. He was a great instructor and pilot, but he had students already when my schedule was good to fly.
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David... David... David.... The OP said he had a confimation of the CFI to show at noon.. he waited till 4PM.. The CFI said oops,,but the food was good... In my book that CFI would be on the bottom of my list to ever use again... But that is just me..:yesnod::yesnod: YMMV.
 
N801BH said:
David... David... David.... The OP said he had a confimation of the CFI to show at noon.. he waited till 4PM.. The CFI said oops,,but the food was good... In my book that CFI would be on the bottom of my list to ever use again... But that is just me..:yesnod::yesnod: YMMV.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did not specify that CFI. I forget how many CFIs Greg says he has flown with but it is upwards of 10 IIRC. I would find one and stick with him, even if he does little things that tick you off.
 
I dropped a stick (straw) into tank of a C-150 once, too. It happened at a refueling stop about 2 hours away from the base, so it took a while to find a suitable peice of wire to fish it out.

It surprises me that some people decide not to report incidents of this nature. What else is that they are not telling?

I once asked about the nature of good sized ding on a flap of Cherokee. I was told that a renter made an off-airport landing and hit a fencepost. The same post busted the stabilator quite well, too. And still that guy pretended that it was like that. The owner threatened to call FSDO to investigate before he became amenable to paying for the stabilator replacement.
 
N801BH said:
Someone needs to rewind the schedule and find out who flew that plane last at night... I would then take them out back and kick the **** out of them for

1- dropping stuff in the tanks...
2- Not telling anyone about it....

And the flight club /school needs to ban that pilot from EVER using their planes again.. IMHO :yesnod:
Click to expand...

Using a flash light to look in the tank to find the dropped stick doesn't mean that it was night time.
 
Hey Greg, if you think you might be able to get transportation to W29, Bay Bridge, I can definitely give you a couple of names at Chesapeake Sport Pilot. It would be a switch of instructor (which it sounds like is needed) and a switch of airplane, but from my experience, CSP has been as reliable as clockwork, and the instructors have all been absolutely top notch. Didn't fly with another instructor until mine went to Bermuda for a vacation and I still wanted to fly. He told me well in advance that he would be gone, though...:). The biggest change would be the airplane, and I went from 172s to Eaglets with no problem at all.

PM me if you're interested.
 
Are you still at Freeway? Are they that bad? I think you have the worst luck in the world when it's come to your training. We'll wait for the next story...
 
DavidWhite said:
Yes, I did not specify that CFI. I forget how many CFIs Greg says he has flown with but it is upwards of 10 IIRC. I would find one and stick with him, even if he does little things that tick you off.
Click to expand...

I have had eight now. Getting near 10. I gave this one three "second" chances and this was the last one. I found a great CFI, I am just unable to join the club he flies with and actually get to that airport. This one is just a 30-40 min bike ride which isn't too bad. I don't want to leave this one, I've done all of my landing practice with him. I am due for supervised solo but I am annoyed with the excuses. I'd give it one more go but I think I'll just save a couple grand and ignore the temptation for solo, I'll join that club with the great CFI.
 
jpower said:
Hey Greg, if you think you might be able to get transportation to W29, Bay Bridge, I can definitely give you a couple of names at Chesapeake Sport Pilot.
Click to expand...

AirDC said:
Are you still at Freeway? Are they that bad? I think you have the worst luck in the world when it's come to your training. We'll wait for the next story...
Click to expand...

Yup still @ Freeway. Can't drive and if I want a 10 min ride to the airport I must annoy my mom like crazy. It's easier to ask for $100 than a ride there, so for now, stuck at Freeway. Freeway is in between good and bad. They have fair equipment, a bit overpriced, the CFI's are like cowboys in a sense though. I asked one about signing me off for the written and he said," $100 and sure." I turned around and left a note for the chief CFI, no dirty side deals with him. The $100 isn't for reviewing my knowledge and filling in any gaps either. One thing I respect though, the owner is an active CFI and is very busy either improving the business, getting new customers, checking on students, or flying. I just seem to have slipped under his radar.

Next story should be positive, hopefully. I'm going back to looking into a club I liked. Not a single complaint other than having a PC-12 ride our a** and getting ****y on air.
 
N801BH said:
Agreed...... But.... my money is on a nightime flight..:yesnod:
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I'd guess a flight within the past 240 hours. It was a maglight and from experience mine stays on up to 10 days. It was on when I found it. Could have been night or a cloudy day. I didn't have an issue but that's because it was on and illuminating the stick as well as showing itself. Money on a night flight as well.
 
It is not unusual to find stuff inside the wing. At MROs I have seen bucking bars, wrenches and even a vacuum cleaner inside the wing tank of a B747. Some of these events happens at work shift time when the mechanic or assembler leaves the area without doing a tool inventory.

José
 
When I was pumping gas I saw all kinds of stuff in tanks. I would call the owner and report it before I would go any further. Helped more than a few fish the junk out. 2 Flashlights, keys, dipsticks. Saw the float off a sending unit floating in the tank of a Cardinal. Showed it to the owner, who swore the gauges worked just fine. All the times I fueled airplanes in the middle of the night with a mini mag hanging out of my mouth, it's a wonder I never dropped one in.
 
Piloto said:
It is not unusual to find stuff inside the wing. At MROs I have seen bucking bars, wrenches and even a vacuum cleaner inside the wing tank of a B747. Some of these events happens at work shift time when the mechanic or assembler leaves the area without doing a tool inventory.

José
Click to expand...

Ok now I can sort of see how most of the stuff everyone's mentioned they found in tanks could have gotten there. Flashlights, dipsticks, it all works. But a vacuum cleaner??? Was someone vacuuming the top of the 747's wing??? I mean, common sense would tell that a vacuum cleaner would never come close to the fuel tank of any airplane, let alone a 747.
 
This thread reminds me that I've been meaning to stuff our fuel stick through a tennis ball. Chained to a board. You've got to be kidding.

Might be time to just leave the big LED monster MagLite in the plane too. You'd dent the wing dropping that thing. And it wouldn't fit through the hole. Need to go see if it'll fit in the "glove" box.

So far, the really cool technique that's served well for years has been just to hold on to the darn things. Sheesh. What's everyone doing, fueling after having a fried chicken dinner and not washing up afterward? ;)
 
denverpilot said:
This thread reminds me that I've been meaning to stuff our fuel stick through a tennis ball. Chained to a board. You've got to be kidding.

Might be time to just leave the big LED monster MagLite in the plane too. You'd dent the wing dropping that thing. And it wouldn't fit through the hole. Need to go see if it'll fit in the "glove" box.

So far, the really cool technique that's served well for years has been just to hold on to the darn things. Sheesh. What's everyone doing, fueling after having a fried chicken dinner and not washing up afterward? ;)
Click to expand...

It's that whole opposable thumb thing........complicated. :D
 
jpower said:
Ok now I can sort of see how most of the stuff everyone's mentioned they found in tanks could have gotten there. Flashlights, dipsticks, it all works. But a vacuum cleaner??? Was someone vacuuming the top of the 747's wing??? I mean, common sense would tell that a vacuum cleaner would never come close to the fuel tank of any airplane, let alone a 747.
Click to expand...

After some investigation it was found that the vacuum cleaner was left by the cleaning lady at Boeing assembly palnt in Everett. On large jet airplanes you can crawl inside the tanks for repairs, cleaning or during assembly. It looks like the cleaning lady forgot about the vacuum cleaner and the next shift assumed a clean tank and installed the manholes with the cleaner inside. This is why a tool inventory after a job is important

José
 
Our solution to the dipsticks is simple, we make our own our of a dowel rod to long to fall into the tank,
 
Piloto said:
After some investigation it was found that the vacuum cleaner was left by the cleaning lady at Boeing assembly palnt in Everett. On large jet airplanes you can crawl inside the tanks for repairs, cleaning or during assembly. It looks like the cleaning lady forgot about the vacuum cleaner and the next shift assumed a clean tank and installed the manholes with the cleaner inside. This is why a tool inventory after a job is important
Click to expand...

Does that make it an ISO 9000 and FAA Certifed vacuum cleaner? ;)
 
I don't think I've ever seen a fuel stick short enough to drop down into the tank. All I've ever used have been the hollow glass/plexi tube/straws that are long enough to touch the bottom of the tank while still protruding long enough to have your entire fist wrapped around the tube with the thumb on top...
 
gkainz said:
I don't think I've ever seen a fuel stick short enough to drop down into the tank. All I've ever used have been the hollow glass/plexi tube/straws that are long enough to touch the bottom of the tank while still protruding long enough to have your entire fist wrapped around the tube with the thumb on top...
Click to expand...

At the right angle it'll go in. Never underestimate a human's ability to screw up. I was once walking up to a door holding my keys with the intent of unlocking it. The keys slipped out of my hand, hit the floor, and slid under the door into the locked room.
 
Piloto said:
After some investigation it was found that the vacuum cleaner was left by the cleaning lady at Boeing assembly palnt in Everett. On large jet airplanes you can crawl inside the tanks for repairs, cleaning or during assembly. It looks like the cleaning lady forgot about the vacuum cleaner and the next shift assumed a clean tank and installed the manholes with the cleaner inside. This is why a tool inventory after a job is important

José
Click to expand...

That's impressive... Next question--how long was it in the tank?
 
gkainz said:
I don't think I've ever seen a fuel stick short enough to drop down into the tank. All I've ever used have been the hollow glass/plexi tube/straws that are long enough to touch the bottom of the tank while still protruding long enough to have your entire fist wrapped around the tube with the thumb on top...
Click to expand...

It's not possible for me to lose the dipstick in the aux tank (it's a more or less cylindrical tip tank) but I could (though I never have) drop it into the main. The fuel tank is pretty and if I tried it would go in their at an angle. I rarely dip the mains anyhow because of the wing dihedreal if you can see fuel, you have 20 gallons. I'm not sure how accurate readings above that are.
 
jesse said:
At the right angle it'll go in. Never underestimate a human's ability to screw up. I was once walking up to a door holding my keys with the intent of unlocking it. The keys slipped out of my hand, hit the floor, and slid under the door into the locked room.
Click to expand...

Sorry but that is hilarious. I can see myself doing that. Can't stop laughing now, thanks for the story!
 
jesse said:
At the right angle it'll go in. Never underestimate a human's ability to screw up. I was once walking up to a door holding my keys with the intent of unlocking it. The keys slipped out of my hand, hit the floor, and slid under the door into the locked room.
Click to expand...

I have mental images of my keys dropping from my hands and disappearing down the crack between the floors when I step onto elevators. I hope it's not self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
I know of a student who recent dropped the dip stick into the tank of a C-150. Spent the better part of his lesson fishing it out.

I've seen a few odds and ends in the tanks over the years. The chains from the Cessna fuel caps, fuel sender floats, chunks of sealant.
 
I know several FBOs that poke the top end of the fuel stick through an old tennis ball.

The ball won't fit through the fuel opening, and the yellow ball makes it easier to figure out where the last renter stuffed it.
 
... and a cross post from the red board:




Speaking of debris in tanks...


(inside a Mooney wet wing -- that's the fuel sump opening there in the middle)
5134zt.jpg


This photo is courtesy of Greg and Andrew Manzie who posed the question:

How do frogs get into a Mooney fuel tank?

 Top marks to Brian Dunstan who concluded is
that they crawl into a fuel nozzle when it is
cool and free of fuel and then get pumped into
the fuel tank by an unsuspecting pilot.
Click to expand...
 
jpower said:
That's impressive... Next question--how long was it in the tank?
Click to expand...

I think it was in the tank for five years. This was an industrial hand held vacuum cleaner. They are widely used for cleaning shavings and debris from the assembly process. The cleaner was in relatively good shape. There was no damage caused by it.

José
 
Shake it out, should work fine... it's well lubed by now!
 
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