FSDO access stories

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airheadpenguin

Pre-takeoff checklist
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airheadpenguin
I had a chance to visit the Boston FSDO today to trade in my AGI and FOI written tests for a shiny new temp airman certificate. Following the advice here and on the FSDO site, I called yesterday and scheduled an appointment.

Drove to the FSDO which is in an office park with parking lot on all 4 sides. All 4 doors were locked no obvious signage for visitors. Eventually hit the intercom and was questioned and allowed in. From there metal detector and ID check. Then I got a temp badge and signed in. At this point get directions to a room with a 4" thick Plexiglas window to tell the receptionist who I'm there for and that I have an appointment.

The person I'm meeting with comes out and escorts me down the hall to another locked room that she opens with a key. All of this to fill out a paper 8710 and issue my temp cert.

This has me wondering a couple of things:
1) Is this FSDO special, or are others like this as well?
2) Have I completely misunderstood the role of the FSDO, what justifies the 3+ layers of physical security just to talk to the receptionist?
 
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It must be how it is in Boston.

In Little Rock, you still have to be buzzed in but that's it. You go to the reception desk, fill out the sign in sheet, grab one of those red FAA visitor badges and tell the lady to call who ever your meeting. Ours is normally library quite, which ends up being kinda spooky.
 
I went to the Denver FSDO a little less than a year ago to renew my CFI. I made an appointment, which was a new procedure from two years previous when you could just walk in during certain hours. When I got to the guardhouse the security people tried to call the inspectors but no one would answer the phone for a while. Seems that they were in a meeting. The security people were apologetic but said there was nothing they could do if no one answered. They tried numerous numbers. Finally someone answered and an inspector had to walk out of the building to the guardhouse to escort me inside. My bag went through a screening machine. Once inside I didn't notice that we went through any locked doors. At least I didn't need to use the rest room because I remembered from a previous visit that one of the office workers had to escort me there too!
 
Is this to protect them from 121/135 guys who lost their medical and are ****ed or from ASIs who go postal?
 
Some are different than others. Went to the Philly FSDO to get a DC-10 type rating added to the certificate. Didn't make an appointment. Sign on the door said to call and make an appointment, all others would be turned away. As I started walking away some Maintenance FSDO guys asked if I needed any help. Told them what I wanted and they politely let me in and told the receptionist to take care of me. She was behind a glass window, got a temp escort badge and the guy that handles 8710s came up and brought me back. Was in and out in 10 minutes but he must have stressed "making an appointment from now on" 5 or 6 times. He made sure I knew that he was only helping me because he was in a good mood and to tell my friends to make an appointment from now on.

The Indianapolis FSDO was much more relaxed. I asked if I needed to make an appointment and they said, "No, we are pretty much here all day...come on by" So I just showed up and was helped right away. There weren't many people inside. Still the same type of security with a receptionist behind a glass window and stuff.
 
Many federal agencies have increased security after Oklahoma City.
 
Does your FSDO share an office building with another federal agency like FBI, Secret Service? If so the actual security may be for those agencies and not the FSDO.
 
CnBeta said:
Does your FSDO share an office building with another federal agency like FBI, Secret Service? If so the actual security may be for those agencies and not the FSDO.
Click to expand...

As far as the signs outside, no but who knows its a reasonable size office building and the others don't like extra attention
 
The Denver FSDO and TRACON are next door to each other. However stopping at the guardhouse is new for the FSDO. You could previously enter the building and go through security there.
 
Three levels of security to "protect" the receptionist for a bunch of bureaucrats?

"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

Ayn Rand
 
The Allegheny FSDO is in an office plaza the shares a parking lot with a supermarket. Once you find where exactly their office is inside the building (I got lost), you sign in and get a visitor badge. No security screening, and I don't recall ever having to page someone to open the door for me. Walked out with a temporary AGI.
 
LAS FSDO, call and make an appointment. The Ops inspectors are only making appointments 3 days a week. Sometimes you can get same day.

The front door is locked, buzz to get let in. Never got past the lobby. The receptionist behind thick plexi takes the information. The Ops inspectors come to the lobby. At least for filing CFI renewals or getting a student certificate.
 
If the federal agency is in a building owned or leased via/by GSA (99% will be yes to this question), security requirements exist. Those involved in transportation, law enforcement, regulatory matters, likely have internal agency security requirements in addition to GSA's

This is largely a result of the OKC bombing incident in 1995
 
B350ATP said:
If the federal agency is in a building owned or leased via/by GSA (99% will be yes to this question), security requirements exist. Those involved in transportation, law enforcement, regulatory matters, likely have internal agency security requirements in addition to GSA's

This is largely a result of the OKC bombing incident in 1995
Click to expand...

Wasn't OKC a truck bomb parked out front?

How does hiding behind three layers of internal security protect the building from a truck bomb?
 
B350ATP said:
If the federal agency is in a building owned or leased via/by GSA (99% will be yes to this question), security requirements exist. Those involved in transportation, law enforcement, regulatory matters, likely have internal agency security requirements in addition to GSA's

This is largely a result of the OKC bombing incident in 1995
Click to expand...

I call BS. I go into many federal agencies and contractors, including some alphabet soup organizations. I can get into offices in any of the fields you listed by basically calling ahead with a reason and having an escort.

The FAA is one of the few with that level of horse hockey to deal with.
 
Since 9/11, all the FSDO's I've been to, are locked up.
 
Seattle FSDO is the same. Guard shack, metal detectors, armed guards, and then a fat old guy that had the best demeanor in the world. It's a federal facility I guess, but to protect who from who?
 
airheadpenguin said:
I had a chance to visit the Boston FSDO today to trade in my AGI and FOI written tests for a shiny new temp airman certificate. Following the advice here and on the FSDO site, I called yesterday and scheduled an appointment.

Drove to the FSDO which is in an office park with parking lot on all 4 sides. All 4 doors were locked no obvious signage for visitors. Eventually hit the intercom and was questioned and allowed in. From there metal detector and ID check. Then I got a temp badge and signed in. At this point get directions to a room with a 4" thick Plexiglas window to tell the receptionist who I'm there for and that I have an appointment.

The person I'm meeting with comes out and escorts me down the hall to another locked room that she opens with a key. All of this to fill out a paper 8710 and issue my temp cert.

This has me wondering a couple of things:
1) Is this FSDO special, or are others like this as well?
2) Have I completely misunderstood the role of the FSDO, what justifies the 3+ layers of physical security just to talk to the receptionist?
Click to expand...

After 9/11 it got stupid for some reason. You used to be able to just walk into the FSDO and ask a question or paperwork and be directed to someone that could help you.
 
B350ATP said:
If the federal agency is in a building owned or leased via/by GSA (99% will be yes to this question), security requirements exist. Those involved in transportation, law enforcement, regulatory matters, likely have internal agency security requirements in addition to GSA's

This is largely a result of the OKC bombing incident in 1995
Click to expand...

Maybe, but the current lockdown of the FSDOs didn't start until post 9/11.
 
What I always thought was funny about it is why do they think someone would want to blow up the FSDO? :dunno: Tower, Approach, Center facilities yes, but an office building of no consequence? It's not like the IRS building, that makes a statement. Most bombers and terrorists are trying to make a statement.
 
Jeez, the post-911 Washington (Dulles) FSDO isn't that bad. You enter a regular office building, go into the anteroom and ring the bell. The inspector comes out and usually just does your paperwork on a small round table in the ante room.
 
All that security and requiring an appointment sure sounds like a way to have easy work days...
 
I've been to the FSDO in Richmond a few times - adjacent to the Virginia Aviation Museum...nicest people, very accommodating , and genuinely passionate about aviation (wanting to help). You enter and there is a waiting room and a glass wall. One time we went with an appointment the other time not, and both times there were no issues getting an audience within about 5 minutes.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Wasn't OKC a truck bomb parked out front?

How does hiding behind three layers of internal security protect the building from a truck bomb?
Click to expand...

It's just pretty window dressing.

Have you heard of the TSA?
 
I used to laugh when they put Jersey barriers all around the Leesburg AFSS and kept people from parking near it. A FSS!. Do you know how much it would have disrupted the air transport system if the FSS was blown up. Not at all. The phones would have rung over to Altoona. The biggest threat that the AFSS had was some idiot terrorist would mistake it for Washington Center down the street (though ZDC has always had real security, a fence well away from the buildings and guards).

Amusingly the press was one of those who couldn't understand the difference. There was an article where a Washington Center controller was arrested for having drugs on him at the facility. A little digging turned out to be a Flight Service Specialist at the Leesburg AFSS.


Oddly, I walked into the Dulles FSDO and got my business transacted without having to submit to any security or an appointment. I suspect there's more ire directed at FSDOs from domestic pilots than from any external threat.
 
After all of these stories I guess our local FSDO is extremely laid back.
 
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ClimbnSink said:
All that security and requiring an appointment sure sounds like a way to have easy work days...
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Bingo! We've got a winnah!

Combine a perceived need for security with laziness and an unlimited budget of other people's money, and you have created an extremely pleasant workplace.
 
ARFlyer said:
It must be how it is in Boston.

In Little Rock, you still have to be buzzed in but that's it. You go to the reception desk, fill out the sign in sheet, grab one of those red FAA visitor badges and tell the lady to call who ever your meeting. Ours is normally library quite, which ends up being kinda spooky.
Click to expand...

It's how it is in a Federal building.

My guess is the Boston FSDO isn't the only office there.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Bingo! We've got a winnah!

Combine a perceived need for security with laziness and an unlimited budget of other people's money, and you have created an extremely pleasant workplace.
Click to expand...

Jay, stick to something you know about.

It's about Federal workers getting killed by the hundreds by racist ***holes with lots of fertilizer in a Ryder truck.
 
If our government were any more paranoid, you'd need an appointment to send a letter in the mail.
 
Marauder said:
Many federal agencies have increased security after Oklahoma City.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. When this transformation happened to the Oakland FSDO I had assumed it had to do with 9/11 but it happened immediately after. Obviously it must have been in the planning, development and construction stages for years prior to that. One of the things that struck me as odd was that they are no longer at the airport :dunno:
 
MAKG1 said:
Jay, stick to something you know about.

It's about Federal workers getting killed by the hundreds by racist ***holes with lots of fertilizer in a Ryder truck.
Click to expand...
No, barricades out front, preventing *******s with fertilizer-filled rental trucks from parking too close, are viable and logical deterrents.

Everything else described in this thread is paranoia, conveniently feeding into laziness. But, golly, three layers of security before you reach a receptionist sure weeds out the riffraff, and makes for a pleasant "20 and out"...
 
Jay Honeck said:
No, barricades out front, preventing *******s with fertilizer-filled rental trucks from parking too close, are viable and logical deterrents.

Everything else described in this thread is paranoia, conveniently feeding into laziness. But, golly, three layers of security before you reach a receptionist sure weeds out the riffraff, and makes for a pleasant "20 and out"...
Click to expand...

I'll say it again. Stick to something you know about.

There are OFTEN -- perhaps even always -- barricades in front of Federal buildings. These days, they are usually disguised as planters or other structures less ugly than big concrete highway barricades.

The truck bomb is hardly the only threat to Federal workers, and it would be really stupid to guard only against that.

The uninformed BS assumption that all Federal workers are just lazy is … lazy. No one makes a lot of work -- and security plans definitely qualify if you have ever even seen one -- to avoid work.
 
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MAKG1 said:
I'll say it again. Stick to something you know about.

There are OFTEN -- perhaps even always -- barricades in front of Federal buildings. These days, they are usually disguised as planters or other structures less ugly than big concrete highway barricades.

The truck bomb is hardly the only threat to Federal workers, and it would be really stupid to guard only against that.

The uninformed BS assumption that all Federal workers are just lazy is … lazy. No one makes a lot of work -- and security plans definitely qualify if you have ever even seen one -- to avoid work.
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And I will say it again -- as a taxpayer for over 40 years, and a keen observer of the "progress" our government has made in those four decades, I believe I have every right to make the statements I have made.

Non-descript bureaucrats hiding behind three layers of "security" is patently absurd. It's Orwell, combined with a wee bit of Benny Hill. It's what happens when limitless paranoia meets a limitless budget.

Sorry, you don't have the right, experience, or standing to hush me -- or anyone else -- on this subject.
 
Jay Honeck said:
And I will say it again -- as a taxpayer for over 40 years, and a keen observer of the "progress" our government has made in those four decades, I believe I have every right to make the statements I have made.

Non-descript bureaucrats hiding behind three layers of "security" is patently absurd. It's Orwell, combined with a wee bit of Benny Hill. It's what happens when limitless paranoia meets a limitless budget.

Sorry, you don't have the right, experience, or standing to hush me -- or anyone else -- on this subject.
Click to expand...

Oh, that "I have every right" thing goes both ways.

You have every right to show you don't know a damn thing about it. You have no right to be free of criticism for doing so.

What's absurd is some guy who doesn't know a damn thing about security or even how a Federal office works, thinks he can make even slightly intelligent grunts about it.

So, what "observation" have you made? Have you reviewed any security plans at all? Have you worked directly with civil servants in any manner that didn't involve taking a number and sitting down? Or did you just sit in your motel and watch some idiot commentator on TV several years ago?
 
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I'm lost... what's this argument about? The need for more security at Federal buildings or less?
 
Real security: Yes.
Security Theater: No.
Seucrity as an excuse to not work or deal with the public: No.

Comments about government employees being lazy are about as welcome as comments about hippy beach comber ex-paperboy hotel managers.
 
OkieAviator said:
I'm lost... what's this argument about? The need for more security at Federal buildings or less?
Click to expand...

It started with a simple question but as usual turned into a typical POA pi**ing contest between a couple members who don't realize that no one else is reading their posts ;)
 
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