Frustrating day and recurrent problems landing

gitmo234

gitmo234

Line Up and Wait
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gitmo234
Today I had one hell of a frustrating evening solo flight. I currently have 50 hours and probably scheduling my check ride sometime this week. I normally train at an airport with a short field so now I actually have trouble with normal sized runways.

During the run-up the skydiver bird pulled in front of me at the hold short line, waiting for me to finish my run up. I radioed he could go around in the grass and I got a snarky response "I CANT GO THROUGH THE DAMN GRASS", which is odd because we normal do if someone is in the way, it's dry out, and he was empty. It was snarky enough that the individual at the unicom made a remark about it. I gave him a look and finished my run up.

I flew today to a normal sized runway. First touch and go a family of deer jumped about in front of me about 20 feet away the second I was fully on the ground. Not enough space to give it gas and get above them, so I hit the brakes and at the last second they cleared. No issues.

Second touch and go a fox ran in front of me.

I do a few more and I always seem to float and when I flare I gain altitude. Its like I have trouble judging either speed or height from runway, and this is a recurrent problem. One of them I bounced (but not too bad) on the rear wheels only. Not really an issue when my instructor is with me. Only when flying solo

I do several more that were better. I let it float a bit in ground effect before flaring.

I return to my home airport and there's half a dozen aircraft in the pattern and a glider transmitting absolute garble (bad radio), so people were complaining they couldnt be understood.

I hope in #3 in the pattern and get on a short final. My instructor (who is teaching another student at the time, also in the pattern), calls out that that the glider turned final on the opposite runway (coming directly at me), so I properly execute a go-round and jump immediately into the downwind for a grass strip.

At this point a gentleman from the glider club sitting on what appeared to be a hoveround chair in the middle of the airfield proceeds to give me a "WTF?!?!" gesture. At this point I'm under pressure and flustered. I come in for the grass strip too low (almost took some corn out with my rudder) and bounce the 172 a few times (rear wheels only) on the grass strip, followed by "WTF!!!" looks from the glider gentleman on the hoveround.

I get back to talk it out with my instructor and he's not available and says "tell me later so I can yell at you for whatever it was".

So I left ****ed off and I would like some advice on what I need to look for when it comes to why I'm floating in the pattern and sometimes seem to bounce when I flare.

On the normal runway at my home airport I seem to do fine. Get me on something longer than 200 feet and of normal width with no obstacles to clear before landing and I struggle.
 
F'n relax. Oh and everyone flies like crap precheckride, same as the artists saying you have to practice and get all the crap art out of your system. Full speed ahead.
 
Nerves are a distinct possibility, and so is the lighter than normal weight, especially if it's a 152 or LSA. Fortunately, your checkride will have meat ballast in the right seat.
 
Welcome to aviation...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
As the others have said, just relax about the landings and such. Everybody has an off day occasionally.

Now I don't know the local procedures at your airport, but run-ups at the hold short line are generally frowned upon, especially on a busy day. That's what run-up pads and the ramp are for... Or, why don't you taxi to the grass for the run-up and let the hold short line be used for it's intended purpose for those ready to depart?
 
You are making yourself hyped up...a few days before my checkride I went out to land at one of the 'hard' little narrow, steep terrain strips I don't like just to make sure I could do it well enough for the checkride. I came in high, fast and hit hard and almost went off the runway. Man was I upset, not because of the hard landing, but because I kept thinking, great, I have 300 landings and I am still screwing this runway up!

On the checkride I landed on that very strip perfectly, the best I had ever done in training....

You will too.
 
OP, when that happens go up and do a few power off stalls. Come in over the numbers 10 knots over. Flair and touch down.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Power off stalls are a good idea.

The wider runway = flaring higher is likely true. My CFI swears its an illusion that I'm falling for at night. Same thing at night. I round out what I think is early and start to flare, then I touch down. At night I swear it looks like I'm 15 feet above the surface when I round out.

I did some reading on the forum about ballooning so I have a few things to mentally try out.

As far as the other issues..."welcome to aviation" is the quote. Reminds me of when I first walked in the door of the FBO. Everyone was pretty much just quiet, unhelpful and gave me long stares as a the new guy. Except my CFI. I looked elsewhere after my first lesson and got the same impression everywhere. It was hard to break into the circle. Now that im close to my certificate a lot of the regulars will actually talk to me now.
 
ClimbnSink said:
F'n relax.
Click to expand...


This!!! And airplanes don't float, they fly. Especially when too fast in ground effect. Practice and you'll get it. Maybe grab your instructor and go to the longest widest runway around followed by the most narrow you can find. You'll get it, practice practice, practice!!


Don't tell anyone, but I still screw up a landing every now and again!


-VanDy
 
It is bad form to block the runway. It is also bad form to play controller and advise inappropriate taxi instructions to a pro.
 
Sounds like you just had an off day.
I mean it was off from the get go and you pressed on and it kept being off.

I agree, relax. My instructor always had to tell me "Bryan. Slow down" sometimes even "Just stop. you are trying to do too much in too short a period of time."

I have a hard time with this next part but when someone cuts you off in traffic. let it go, move on and forget about it. Meaning if you Eff up something in flying don't let that Eff up affect your next thing.

In reading your post, I can feel the tension building through out the flight. You can do that with most things in life and live but in flying, you gotta let the sky diver plane cut you off and say "Well this gives me more time to make sure I have my radios dialed in and go over my pre-takeoff checklist one more time."


No question a lot of siht happened today most were challenges you will have to deal with in normal flying (usually spread out over many more flights) but the real question is "what is wrong with my landings?"

The answer is you are coming in too fast.
 
kgruber said:
It is bad form to block the runway. It is also bad form to play controller and advise inappropriate taxi instructions to a pro.
Click to expand...

I actually talked with my CFI and the FBO today who had a full report of yesterday's chaos overall and the only thing I did wrong here was get frustrated on my landing. It is standard procedure todo the run up at the hold short line. That particular plane has a prop that's too large and needs to be changed because it prohibits some of its movement. It's scheduled for change this fall. He was supposed to back taxi and use a different route. The FBO said I shouldn't have rushed through the run up and he could have waited or gone the other way as they have a dedicated taxiway for skydive use, instead of coming down our taxi way the going across a field.

As far as the gliders I was told that's a huge recurrent problem. They make no or incorrect radio calls like announcing they're in the pattern at 3000 feet agl. The FBO has been pushing them to work on radio use more and it's working but not
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Sounds like you just had an off day.
I mean it was off from the get go and you pressed on and it kept being off.

I agree, relax. My instructor always had to tell me "Bryan. Slow down" sometimes even "Just stop. you are trying to do too much in too short a period of time."

I have a hard time with this next part but when someone cuts you off in traffic. let it go, move on and forget about it. Meaning if you Eff up something in flying don't let that Eff up affect your next thing.

In reading your post, I can feel the tension building through out the flight. You can do that with most things in life and live but in flying, you gotta let the sky diver plane cut you off and say "Well this gives me more time to make sure I have my radios dialed in and go over my pre-takeoff checklist one more time."


No question a lot of siht happened today most were challenges you will have to deal with in normal flying (usually spread out over many more flights) but the real question is "what is wrong with my landings?"

The answer is you are coming in too fast.
Click to expand...

Thanks man. Some sleep and talking to my instructor helped. His answer was "that's why I tell you too remain calm". He said we'll work some this afternoon.

My first solo went from calm winds to a crosswind beyond airframe rating with gusts even higher, in a matter of minutes. I landed it but it was extremely rough. On the way back my CFI said it deteriorated to the point where he wouldn't normally fly, and none of this was on the weather so ever since then I've had an issue with coming in too fast
 
I too had problems getting my landings right. Relax and try to not land but hover just few feet over the ground then flare helped me out. I also look at long end of runway to help visualize things better.
 
gitmo234 said:
Now that im close to my certificate a lot of the regulars will actually talk to me now.
Click to expand...
Apparently that now includes "communication" from the guy in the hoveround.

As to the floating, IME it's usually about coming "over the fence" with too much airspeed. Even a 172 needs to approach a few knots slower when solo vs with two on board, especially if the fuel load is light. And pilots tend to add a few knots when they're uncomfortable for any reason including getting uptight about others in the pattern, the fact that the CFI isn't in the airplane, or when an approaching checkride is on their mind.

Climbing during the roundout (ballooning) is probably a combination of too much speed and failing to look all the way to the end of the runway while holding the nose off the ground. If you focus mainly on the horizon (far end of the runway) the fact your sink rate or lack thereof will be far more apparent.
 
I flew with another pilot yesterday for the first time, split the flight, I flew one leg he flew the other. I bounced my landing....salvaged it with a blip of power but I was rather embarrassed and ticked off. I'm chalking it up to 'shiznit happens' and will just have to do better next time
 
This comes up so often, but there are always new forum members, so...

So many here advocate looking "down the runway" or "at the far end of the runway" or even "at the horizon", that it must work for some.

I found it did NOT work for my students.

I will post this article I wrote for the Cirrus Owner's magazine, for those who might be new or missed it before:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22997486/Wheretolook.pdf

And the FAA take from Airplane Flying Handbook:

11403149764_e680233f9f_z.jpg
 
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That article in the dropbox you posted was great. Never thought of the comparison to night VS day landings. My night landings are always smooth and I NEVER balloon on them. The only issue is that it always feels like I'm very high off the pavement (optical illusion), but they're always very smooth. So much that i'd rather fly at night than any other time.
 
gitmo234 said:
That article in the dropbox you posted was great. Never thought of the comparison to night VS day landings. My night landings are always smooth and I NEVER balloon on them. The only issue is that it always feels like I'm very high off the pavement (optical illusion), but they're always very smooth. So much that i'd rather fly at night than any other time.
Click to expand...

You're going to get it. Relax and you'll get in the groove. My landings sucked until I just calmed down. Now 9 of 10 are greasers and the odd one is just fine. Even if I am flying a death trap....
:hairraise:
 
Gitmo,

I just recently soloed, and I was kinda nervous about my landings. I did 3 full stop taxi backs, and I greased all 3 landings...the best landing in my short flying experience. (22 hours)

The thing that helped me was actually not having my CFI in the plane with me. I found myself waiting for him to tell me what to do next. With him out of the picture I could fly the plane, and feel what I need to do, when I needed to do it. Don't get me wrong, the training I received from my CFI allowed me to feel relaxed, because I knew exactly what to do. I wasn't allowed to do more than 3, but I could have stayed out there for 10 more...what a rush. Tower knew it was my first solo, and the guy was great. He allowed me to use the longer, wider runway (33L) instead of the normal T&G runway (33R), talked slowly, and even told me I did a "great" job when I was done. I had a departing 737 on an intersecting runway (6) and I actually told tower I wanted to wait 45 seconds for the wake turbulence to subside. He said "good call". It was a great experience, and definitely a highlight of my life I will always remember. (go it all on GoPro)

Just hang in there it will all work out...you'll see.:thumbsup:
 
Good job! I was doing well until my first solo. Things with the weather went from perfect to "shouldnt be flying" weather, none of which was in the forecast, very quickly.

There were supposed to be some very light winds coming in, but in between landings things went from calm winds to (on the last landing) 15 knot gusting 20 crosswinds. I landed fine (barely) but it was hairy enough it was a mental setback for a long time. It took a few months and lots of practice to be able to think of flying without starting to sweat and get nervous, although I was still flying. When I told the tower I wasnt going up again due to the winds he said "yeah they're 15 knots gusting 20, probably a good call".

I actually just got a new instructor and switched airports. I spent roughly $2500 on flying and ground instruction between thursday to sunday, and on sunday about an hour before my last scheduled flight time my wife texted me that she was getting really sick at home and asked that I come home.

I checked with the airport manager and he said it was fine, go take care of my wife. A little bit later I started getting nasty messages from my instructor about charging a late fee, he didnt believe that my wife was sick or if she was I knew ahead of time, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Probably like 7 or 8 text messages. The airport manager said he'd take care of that problem, but i kept getting text messages. I finally responded with "I've logged 50 hours, you've been late far to lessons far more than I have, and I rarely cancel, you'd think at this point I'd have a pass for a family illness. Go ahead and take the late fee from my account. If it goes over, let me know and I'll settle up, I wont be back."

With that, I'll be taking my plane (when I pick it up this month), and my instruction elsewhere. I called another airport and spoke with their CFI and it was a world of difference. Just from talking on the phone I feel more comfortable with him.
 
Gitmo, flying is is not easy or everyone would be doing it.
As a student you have been in a cocoon with the instructor looking ahead and keeping you in a bubble of calm, serene air (even if you think he is a jerk).
When you are out there by yourself that cocoon is gone. You need to come my local field on a busy weekend with meatbombs falling from the sky, choppers coming at you as you roll onto final, NORDO ultralights doing whatever it is they do ( shrug), quavery voiced students announcing their position every 3 seconds (and often wrong) as the the crop dusters come screaming in over the trees to the crosswind runway.
And not a one of them gives a damn about your tender feelings. Welcome to the real world.

Hang in there and you will make it.
 
Guys,

My CFI has been expired for a while, and I'm currently operating sans medical as a Sport Pilot.

But if anyone wants to fly into Copperhill, TN, I would not mind flying with them and critiquing their landing technique. I really do have a lot of expertise in this area and have a pretty good handle on what works and what doesn't.

Obviously, you'd need to already be licensed to act as PIC of your aircraft.

Really just looking for any excuse to fly!
 
FastEddieB said:
Guys,

My CFI has been expired for a while, and I'm currently operating sans medical as a Sport Pilot.

But if anyone wants to fly into Copperhill, TN, I would not mind flying with them and critiquing their landing technique. I really do have a lot of expertise in this area and have a pretty good handle on what works and what doesn't.

Obviously, you'd need to already be licensed to act as PIC of your aircraft.

Really just looking for any excuse to fly!
Click to expand...

Let me see how my airplane purchase goes and I may just take you up on that
 
FastEddieB said:
Guys,

My CFI has been expired for a while, and I'm currently operating sans medical as a Sport Pilot.

But if anyone wants to fly into Copperhill, TN, I would not mind flying with them and critiquing their landing technique. I really do have a lot of expertise in this area and have a pretty good handle on what works and what doesn't.

Obviously, you'd need to already be licensed to act as PIC of your aircraft.

Really just looking for any excuse to fly!
Click to expand...

I WILL bring the Dakota up when its out of annual and I have some time in a couple weeks. Any good food around there?

Dan
'79 Dakota
 
Two things: One: best advice I was ever given when I was struggling to grease that perfect landing: Go home, sit in a dark room, close your eyes and visualize the entire landing sequence over and over in your head. Relax, visualize, repeat. Relax, visualize, repeat. I would never thought it would work but it did for me.

Two: Bad aviation events seem to happen in 3's. If you encounter two unexplainable events....call it off. Shut down, walk away, re-engage later. Start at square one. Often with a fresh start you will find yourself refreshed, relaxed, in the groove, and on top of your game. Break that series of 3 events before it bites you in the butt. I can't explain why but it seems to hold true.

Best of luck. We all strive for perfection. We all get too wrapped around the axle. We all need to step away sometimes.
 
FastEddieB said:
This comes up so often, but there are always new forum members, so...

So many here advocate looking "down the runway" or "at the far end of the runway" or even "at the horizon", that it must work for some.

I found it did NOT work for my students.
Click to expand...

I completely agree that staring at the far end of the runway doesn't make it easier to judge your height above the pavement. What you get from looking at the horizon is a very precise sense of your sink rate. And IMO, if you start your roundout reasonably close to the ground and within a few knots of Vs * 1.2 you can get consistently good landings simply by managing the sink rate. IOW, unless you're trying to hold the airplane off the runway until the last possible millisecond, gradually reducing the sink rate to about 50 FPM as you bleed off the speed will make for a decent landing.

Also I don't like fixating on the edge of the runway as this makes it difficult to maintain the centerline let alone keep the airplane aligned properly. I'd say the best landings occur when the pilot's eyes are moving around and picking up different information from different perspectives.
 
There is a distinct and difficult 'hump' to get over trying to figure out landings. That's why there are so many 'tips' attempting to break down the process into manageable and distinctive steps.

Like anything tough to get that involves danger, it simply takes a lot of tries to slowly, or suddenly get it right. And even then, you may still ponder why it went right.

Don't quit, and don't get impatient. Don't over practice, and don't over think it. It's a lot like golf. The game is impossible till one day you do something that seems to work, then you get two more of those days, and, wham, you are driving the ball straight and long and are ready for the PGA tour.

Sadly, not your CFI nor any verbal instruction, nor any video watching others land gives you the series of judgements, queues, tactile feel and timing you need to master to get landings down to a point you feel confidence with them... It's your muscle memory, not theirs...

One thing to remember, even if you become a carrier pilot you will still have a rough or goofy landing once in a while. But most of the time you will get down and smile - that is, after you figure out your own personal technique.

For some it takes 200 landings, others 400...for you who knows.

Try to use the same plane (or type/model) and use the landing configuration specified in that planes pilot handbook. Imprint the basics in your head, and go out and keep doing it over and over and you will eventually start to nail them.
 
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