Fresno FSDO - retests?

What is this, like the fourth DPE they've done this with in the last year or two?
 
Henning said:
What is this, like the fourth DPE they've done this with in the last year or two?
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I remember another guy several years ago - I'm sure I can find it archived in the forums somewhere - wasn't he in Las Vegas? And I thought that guy screwed a whole lot of pilots. Dunno how many are involved with this guy.
 
What I'd like to know is what is the FSDO is coming across that is bringing this up.:dunno:
 
Henning said:
What I'd like to know is what is the FSDO is coming across that is bringing this up.:dunno:
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I don't think I've ever heard. Even the last time that generated a lot of posts, nobody got the official word on why.

It also seems to take several years, too. This article says Jan 12 - Jan 14. What took so long to figure this out?
 
Without going into details, it first surfaces when the FSDO gets word of substandard exams.

The Sanford Fl A&P school was a classic case when students began complaining of the test being "too easy".
 
RotorAndWing said:
Without going into details, it first surfaces when the FSDO gets word of substandard exams.

The Sanford Fl A&P school was a classic case when students began complaining of the test being "too easy".
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I watched a check ride on youtube that looked extremely easy. Came across more like a lesson than a check ride. Maybe it's just minor stuff like check breaks before taxi, not using the entire runway on a short field and other things that I've been taught to do.
 
Bummer,not the pilots fault,unless they paid for a paper check ride. The FSDO should give the check ride for no fee.
 
frfly172 said:
Bummer,not the pilots fault,unless they paid for a paper check ride. The FSDO should give the check ride for no fee.
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The FSDO will not charge for the 709 ride but the person getting checked will have to provide the airplane and pay for the gas.
 
It would seem the FAA would be culpable in this, after all they did initially force you to go to their designated examiner whom they are now saying was apparently unqualified. So who's fault was that? It seems counter to how the FAA normally operates which would be to deny any mistake on their part whatsoever.
 
Not that it will likely help the pilots any since the shortest, simplest, and least expensive path to retaining their certificates is to get retested, but section 44709 is under Title 49, which was amended by the Pilot's Bill of Rights. An affected pilot could make the proverbial Federal case out of it. Since some of these pilots have probably been flying for a couple years, it should be difficult for the FAA to claim that the safety of air commerce or transportation was now suddenly jeopardized.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Not that it will likely help the pilots any since the shortest, simplest, and least expensive path to retaining their certificates is to get retested, but section 44709 is under Title 49, which was amended by the Pilot's Bill of Rights. An affected pilot could make the proverbial Federal case out of it. Since some of these pilots have probably been flying for a couple years, it should be difficult for the FAA to claim that the safety of air commerce or transportation was now suddenly jeopardized.
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Actually the way I read that the best thing to do would be add another rating with another examiner, get an MEL or SES and it sounds like you're ok.
 
Henning said:
Actually the way I read that the best thing to do would be add another rating with another examiner, get an MEL or SES and it sounds like you're ok.
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They'd have to hustle since it sounds like they'd have 15 days to get it done.
 
Jim Logajan said:
They'd have to hustle since it sounds like they'd have 15 days to get it done.
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SES weekend anyone? $2k for that would be better than getting in line for a Commercial standard commercial checkride, at least it would be fun..
 
Henning said:
Since no FSDOs are doing 709s this month you may note that it says you have 15 days to get it scheduled.
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I think neither of our understandings is exactly correct. There appear to be two deadlines. This is the original FAA Notice: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N_8900.274.pdf

First deadline is scheduling the exam:
The letter will notify the airman of the decision to reexamine and require the airman to contact the Fresno FSDO POC (referenced in the letter) within 10 business days of receipt of the letter to schedule a reexamination.​
The second deadline is the reexamination itself:
When the Fresno FSDO is contacted by the airman, they will allow the airman to choose from available dates and times to schedule the reexamination. The reexamination should normally take place within 15 days of receipt of the letter of notification; however, there may be exceptions that delay the reexamination in accordance with
FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 7, Section 1, subparagraph 5-1419C. The inspector should accommodate the airman as deemed necessary and appropriate to the situation, but may not allow the airman to postpone the reexamination indefinitely. If the airman does not intend to operate aircraft for a short period of time, or needs time to practice and cannot meet the 15-day deadline, the airman may temporarily deposit their airman certificate at the FSDO for a maximum of 30 days in accordance with the temporary deposit and reissue policy (refer to
FAA Order 8900.1 Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 5, Miscellaneous Part 61 Certification Information).
​
 
Jim Logajan said:
I think neither of our understandings is exactly correct. There appear to be two deadlines. This is the original FAA Notice: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N_8900.274.pdf

First deadline is scheduling the exam:
The letter will notify the airman of the decision to reexamine and require the airman to contact the Fresno FSDO POC (referenced in the letter) within 10 business days of receipt of the letter to schedule a reexamination.​
The second deadline is the reexamination itself:
When the Fresno FSDO is contacted by the airman, they will allow the airman to choose from available dates and times to schedule the reexamination. The reexamination should normally take place within 15 days of receipt of the letter of notification; however, there may be exceptions that delay the reexamination in accordance with
FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 7, Section 1, subparagraph 5-1419C. The inspector should accommodate the airman as deemed necessary and appropriate to the situation, but may not allow the airman to postpone the reexamination indefinitely. If the airman does not intend to operate aircraft for a short period of time, or needs time to practice and cannot meet the 15-day deadline, the airman may temporarily deposit their airman certificate at the FSDO for a maximum of 30 days in accordance with the temporary deposit and reissue policy (refer to
FAA Order 8900.1 Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 5, Miscellaneous Part 61 Certification Information).
​
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I was just offered a 60 day extension "no problem", the first ride I could get scheduled is Nov 10. The FAA is having real problems...:nonod:
 
Jim Logajan said:
Not that it will likely help the pilots any since the shortest, simplest, and least expensive path to retaining their certificates is to get retested, but section 44709 is under Title 49, which was amended by the Pilot's Bill of Rights. An affected pilot could make the proverbial Federal case out of it. Since some of these pilots have probably been flying for a couple years, it should be difficult for the FAA to claim that the safety of air commerce or transportation was now suddenly jeopardized.
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^^THIS^^

The FAA should have to prove in front of an NTSB ALJ, by clear and convincing evidence, that air safely will continue to be affected if they are to retest pilots when THEIR examiner f*cked up.

Mr. Infohe might want to draft legislation in similar wording to go with his PBOR pt2:yes:
 
The FAA isn't providing any loopholes:

...will be reexamined unless they have subsequently been reexamined or tested by another DPE or FAA inspector for a higher grade of certificate in the same category of aircraft with satisfactory results on the first attempt; in those cases, no reexamination letter will be sent. An added rating to the same grade of certificate or a certificate issued in a different category of aircraft does not satisfy the requirement of this notice. The test for the higher grade of certificate must have taken place prior to the airman receiving the letter of reexamination. Any practical test after the airman has received the letter of reexamination does not negate the requirement to be retested...
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Who in their right mind would ever complain that a checkride is too easy?!?! :mad2:
 
Matthew said:
I remember another guy several years ago - I'm sure I can find it archived in the forums somewhere - wasn't he in Las Vegas? And I thought that guy screwed a whole lot of pilots. Dunno how many are involved with this guy.
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Yes, Eddie Lane, the number was about 500 pilots needing to retest.

I have not heard a number in Fresno. Just that Flying Mag eNews reported it yesterday. 10 days to respond and schedule a check ride within 15 days.

I just heard from a former DPE, he said the FAA has been on a "witch hunt". Follow the rules as a DPE and you're ok.
 
Henning said:
I was just offered a 60 day extension "no problem", the first ride I could get scheduled is Nov 10. The FAA is having real problems...:nonod:
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I take it you got a letter?
It took them over two years to schedule the 500 from Eddie Lane fiasco.
And the rides have to be with an FAA examiner, not another DPE.
 
I guess the good thing about my having taken my private check ride with an FAA examiner rather than a DPE is that this shouldn't happen to me. Although I guess there are no guarantees. . . .
 
BillTIZ said:
I take it you got a letter?
It took them over two years to schedule the 500 from Eddie Lane fiasco.
And the rides have to be with an FAA examiner, not another DPE.
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No, I need a 709 due to my gear up at Appleton.
 
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