Free Lance instructors

cleared4theoption

cleared4theoption

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
May 6, 2010
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363
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Flowery Branch, GA
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Jeremy
For any of you who are, or have trained with a free lance CFI...I have a question.
If you train with an FBO, you can rent from them afterwards... Obviously if your Free Lance CFI doesn't own their own plane, you would be using an FBO anyway...but if the CFI has his/her own plane, is it normal for them to also rent it out after you get your PPL? Or would you end up going to an FBO afterward and get checked out for rental?
 
I had a freelance CFI who owns his plane (well, 2). And hung out in the airport with a lot of CFIs who own. None of them rent out their aircraft. Chances are that you would have to find FBO.

My instructor won't even let me solo in his Piper. I got checked out in FBO's 152 and did most of solo in it. Then checked out C172, did my checkride prep in it and took my checkride too.
 
Freelance instructing used to be very common. Today it's very difficult to find a club or school or rental facility that will allow it.
 
Dang, I thought someone was going to check me out in their Lance for free :) I need some HP/Complex time.
 
cleared4theoption said:
For any of you who are, or have trained with a free lance CFI...I have a question.
If you train with an FBO, you can rent from them afterwards... Obviously if your Free Lance CFI doesn't own their own plane, you would be using an FBO anyway...but if the CFI has his/her own plane, is it normal for them to also rent it out after you get your PPL? Or would you end up going to an FBO afterward and get checked out for rental?
Click to expand...
Any of the above
 
DouglasBader said:
Freelance instructing used to be very common. Today it's very difficult to find a club or school or rental facility that will allow it.
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I got lucky by finding a school that will let me teach in their planes, but you're right, alot of inhsurance policies don't allow it.
 
I allow my students to rent my plane but not just anyone who shows up...

There some folks who are considering organizing a club
 
cleared4theoption said:
For any of you who are, or have trained with a free lance CFI...I have a question.
If you train with an FBO, you can rent from them afterwards... Obviously if your Free Lance CFI doesn't own their own plane, you would be using an FBO anyway...but if the CFI has his/her own plane, is it normal for them to also rent it out after you get your PPL? Or would you end up going to an FBO afterward and get checked out for rental?
Click to expand...
I'm trying to think how I would define normal in this business... LOL.

The FBO I currently work with (until I move in August) has only freelance CFI's flying the aircraft, and does allow you to rent once you are licensed.

Ryan
 
I think an FBO that ONLY did freelancers and posted a SCOREBOARD with various CFI customer ratings would be entertaining to watch. There'd be drama oozing out the door. ;)
 
Hmmm... I own my own plane. I've used freelance instructors. Currently use a CFI that's affiliated with an FBO because he came very highly recommended by a friend that I trust.
 
I am freelance but am associated with a flight school that has a C150, PA-28-180, and BE-35-C33. My students pay for the airplane separately and I charge what I want with the school taking no portion of my income. I'm then free to instruct in other aircraft and charge whatever I desire. It's a nice arrangement.
 
Jesse, that is a nice arrangement. How does the insurance work? Are you named on the school policy or do you provide your own with the school being happy with the coverage you provide?

If I ran a flight school I'd be ok with an independent CFI as long as I had them firmly on the hook regarding their responsibilities while using my airplanes.
 
I used to do this alot, I had a arrangement with a few little schools, I would rent their aircraft and instruct in them, I brought in my own people with my own advertising and used their aircraft/insurance. I had this set up with two different schools and it wasnt hard to do IMHO
 
I had no problem with my club - the board had to approve of the CFI but the insurance was all set so long as the trainee was a club member (CFI members could not instruct non-members). I don't believe my CFI was ever named on the insurance, but I was. Both of the clubs on my then home field had that arrangement.
 
My current flight instructor used to own a C152 that he would train out of. He said the money he hoped to make off the rental cost of the plane, was eaten up in the added insurance costs.

So he no longer does it.
 
TMetzinger said:
Jesse, that is a nice arrangement. How does the insurance work? Are you named on the school policy or do you provide your own with the school being happy with the coverage you provide?

If I ran a flight school I'd be ok with an independent CFI as long as I had them firmly on the hook regarding their responsibilities while using my airplanes.
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I know I am named something on the school policy -- but may not be named insured, might just be named pilot. I've been seriously thinking about picking up a CFI policy with $80k worth of hull. Recent circumstances may expedite that decision.
 
jesse said:
I know I am named something on the school policy -- but may not be named insured, might just be named pilot. I've been seriously thinking about picking up a CFI policy with $80k worth of hull. Recent circumstances may expedite that decision.
Click to expand...

Let me know what that costs you, if you don't mind?
 
I was fortunate enough to join a club with a 172, 182 and an Arrow... and a few CFIs as members. I finished up my PPL with one, who moved shortly thereafter. I'll be working with one of the others to pick up my HP and complex endorsements and get checked out in the bigger planes.

I don't know what the club rules are about member CFIs training non-members. I do know that CFIs from the FBO/school where the club keeps the planes and buys fuel are all approved to train members in club airplanes.
 
ja_user said:
Let me know what that costs you, if you don't mind?
Click to expand...

I just spent roughly $1,100 for the following coverage: non-owned insurance and cfi insurance. (Covers instructing in aircraft or my personal non-commercial use in aircraft. Would not cover me ferrying an aircraft unless I was providing instruction)

$500,000 each accident
$500,000 property damage
$100,000 each person
$80,000 Aircraft Damage liability

$1,000 regardless of fault for aircraft damage as well
$5,000 towards a lawyer if the FAA tries to take any enforcement action towards me

Aircraft single engine
Aircraft multi engine
Seaplane
Light sport
Experimental
 
jesse said:
I just spent roughly $1,100 for the following coverage: non-owned insurance and cfi insurance. (Covers instructing in aircraft or my personal non-commercial use in aircraft. Would not cover me ferrying an aircraft unless I was providing instruction)

$500,000 each accident
$500,000 property damage
$100,000 each person
$80,000 Aircraft Damage liability

$1,000 regardless of fault for aircraft damage as well
$5,000 towards a lawyer if the FAA tries to take any enforcement action towards me

Aircraft single engine
Aircraft multi engine
Seaplane
Light sport
Experimental
Click to expand...
That's pretty close to what I'm spending on it. It is DEFINITELY worth it, especially if a student makes a mistake while you are on board.

Ryan
 
jesse said:
I just spent roughly $1,100 for the following coverage: non-owned insurance and cfi insurance. (Covers instructing in aircraft or my personal non-commercial use in aircraft. Would not cover me ferrying an aircraft unless I was providing instruction)

$500,000 each accident
$500,000 property damage
$100,000 each person
$80,000 Aircraft Damage liability

$1,000 regardless of fault for aircraft damage as well
$5,000 towards a lawyer if the FAA tries to take any enforcement action towards me

Aircraft single engine
Aircraft multi engine
Seaplane
Light sport
Experimental
Click to expand...

Jesse, can I ask who that was with? I'm looking at getting the same... does that also include professional insurance (ie: if the pilot does something later while you aren't in the plane)?
 
kevmor99 said:
Jesse, can I ask who that was with? I'm looking at getting the same... does that also include professional insurance (ie: if the pilot does something later while you aren't in the plane)?
Click to expand...

I believe so but i don't remember. It's the NAFI Avemco deal. Basically you get a better deal through Avemco doing the NAFI package -- so if you're not a NAFI member you'll have to pay to become one (its worth it on the insurance alone).
 
At my school, we rent club aircraft and pay the CFIs in cash. Admittedly, we can only use CFIs that are authorized by the school, but I have known some CFIs that aren't on the list to teach there on occasion. I somehow think that it isn't hard to get authorized. I also know that the school doesn't demand that you rent their aircraft, and I do not think that the CFIs pay the school (though they do help out at ground school etc for free). I think the school just hopes for eventual rental revenue.
 
I belong to a club that has 2 172N's, and I hired a freelance instructor. The club had to vote on letting my use the planes as a student pilot, but that was the only sticking point. My CFI never rents out his own plane (I have actually never seen his plane); he relies on his students providing the plane for all ratings.
 
TMetzinger said:
Jesse, that is a nice arrangement. How does the insurance work? Are you named on the school policy or do you provide your own with the school being happy with the coverage you provide?

If I ran a flight school I'd be ok with an independent CFI as long as I had them firmly on the hook regarding their responsibilities while using my airplanes.
Click to expand...
The deal I have with an FBO is to send my hypothetical students (I don't have any at the moment :() up with one of the school's instructors atleast once (most likely just prior to solo) during their training just to check my work (I'm a new instructor, so I'd do this even if it wasn't policy).
 
My brother is a free lance instructor that owns a plane and is more than happy to solo students and rent to former students. Can't say it is all that common but I can say for sure there is at least one guy in the Philly area willing to rent out his cherokee.

Also to the poster that said free lance instructors were restricted by some fbo's from renting on their home turf. I know some try to stop guys from doing it, however, if the airport is federally funded they can't stop them. They can be a real pain dealing with but there are very specific requirements placed on airport authorities that accept federal grant money to prevent this type of monopolistic attitude towards FBO operators. And yes he had to deal with this very situation. He still rents his ride out.
 
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