Free 1956 C-172, is it worth the price?

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JoseCuervo

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JoseCuervo
Free 1956 C-172, is it worth the price?


Let's say that you had access to a "free" 1956 straight tail 172 with a run out engine (o-300) that hadn't been flown for 25+ years.

It has been stored outside in a "dry climate", the paint and interior would be a 5/10, completely usable, but faded/dated.

Instruments are original, including vacuum system. Avionics are 30 years old, VFR only, assuming they worked.

What would you do with it?

  • Overhaul the motor, and then start annual process
  • Get a "new" mid-time o-300, then start annual
  • get a zero-time 0-300
  • Upgrade to a 180hp and start annual (zero time or mid time)
  • Don't worry about the motor, the airframe will never pass anuual
  • Aluminum is selling for quite a bit at scrap yards, grab a sawzall
  • Find a aircraft wrecking yard and sell it to them

At the end of the day, gonna have a 57 year old plane with a faded interior and a faded paint job.
 
JoseCuervo said:
At the end of the day, gonna have a 57 year old plane with a faded interior and a faded paint job.
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That would be enough to keep me away from it.

Add up all that money you would spend and see how many hours you could rent a nice one for...or get close to buying something else that's half decent.
 
For free?

I'd have an IA/AP do an annual on it and give me the squawk list for the frame. Go from there.
 
Change the oil and fly it. Try to bring the motor back to life, then you can see what else works. Personally I like the old C-172s and if a VFR plane fits the bill who cares about the instruments? Any panel you install will not keep up with handheld tablet type things. If you need/want an IFR plane then run away and find something else.
 
It'd be worth a lot more than 'free' if you parted it out promptly. The motor and aluminum especially.
 
What kind of radios?
What kind of instrumentation?
If it had a kx155 w/gs and a newer style AI instead of the old AN style AH, and mabe a vertical card DG. I would have a close look at the airframe, if it passes muster, Then send the O-300 off to Carlus Gann for overhaul, and "IRAN" the rest, to get it airworthy.
But but it all depends.
you could probably make a "flying dog" out of it for about what it would be worth as a flying dog. But from there the cost increases exponentially.
With that said. How much will you need to sublet, and how much will you be able to do yourself?
Too many variables to give a definitive answer as to whether or not it's worth it.
BTW, the 57 year old airplane has way more class than a 10 year old same airplane. with fewer ADs to deal with, and fly just as well, handle better (lighter on the controls), with 40 degrees of manual flaps, a taller stance (don't have to duck as far to avoid the "diamond effect"), a smoother running engine, and many neat STCs available.
 
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I'd take it, regardless of the condition as long as it is relatively close to home. Worst case it is scrap, and you'll get the money from the scrap that can be used towards rental time.

EdFred said:
For free?

I'd have an IA/AP do an annual on it and give me the squawk list for the frame. Go from there.
Click to expand...

Ditto, although since the airplane is already out of annual the first thing I'd do is take a look myself and decide whether it is worth bringing a mechanic in to look at it or not. If things look decent and are at least somewhat functional then I'd call a mechanic in to have a look at the airframe to see where we were at.



If I were going to keep the plane I'd probably do an o-360 conversion on it. You might be able to find a serviceable o-300 or tear down the current one and inspect it to save some money though.

Overall, resurrecting this airplane will take a lot of time, patience, and way more money than you think it will. If you aren't an A&P I hope you have a good friend who is or else this might become the biggest burden in getting this plane back into operating condition.
 
Nope, not worth it at all. Please PM me the particulars.

Seriously though.

Old paint? Faded interior? I've never read an NTSB report where ****ty paint or a faded interior was to blame.

Those are simple enough planes. Corrosion would be the difference between flying again or repurposed as beer cans.

Nobody says you have to put a zero time engine on it. Find a mid time one and sell the existing one as a core.
 
-Replace all rubber components in the engine bay.
-Pull jugs, put on new rings and hone the cyl, install new springs and clean the valves.
-New tires, tubes, bearing grease.
-New batt.
-New oil, and do a pre-oil by pumping oil INTO the pressure sender so it circulates well.
-Clean, clean, clean everything.
-Remove all radios.
-Get ferry permit or see about an annual insp.
-Replace oil sender line and start engine.
-go fly.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Free 1956 C-172, is it worth the price?


Let's say that you had access to a "free" 1956 straight tail 172 with a run out engine (o-300) that hadn't been flown for 25+ years.

It has been stored outside in a "dry climate", the paint and interior would be a 5/10, completely usable, but faded/dated.

Instruments are original, including vacuum system. Avionics are 30 years old, VFR only, assuming they worked.

What would you do with it?

  • Overhaul the motor, and then start annual process
  • Get a "new" mid-time o-300, then start annual
  • get a zero-time 0-300
  • Upgrade to a 180hp and start annual (zero time or mid time)
  • Don't worry about the motor, the airframe will never pass anuual
  • Aluminum is selling for quite a bit at scrap yards, grab a sawzall
  • Find a aircraft wrecking yard and sell it to them

At the end of the day, gonna have a 57 year old plane with a faded interior and a faded paint job.
Click to expand...

If you want a new airplane, no. If you want some fun, you are willing to do some work and spend money where you need to, yes! I would, it would be fun bringing it back to life.
 
During discussions of other low-cost projects on this and other forum someone will often suggest that "it would have to be free to be a good deal and even then might not be due to all of the unknowns you might encounter along the way."

I think this might be one of the examples of that mind-set. A lot of work (time and/or money) will be required to know everything you want to know before committing the first dollar to the resuscitation of this pup. If you've got plenty of both and want to take it on, it might turn out great. For me, I already got my T-shirt for such projects and wouldn't touch it with a stick.
 
I can't imagine that the money you would spend to make it airworthy couldn't easily be used to buy something already airworthy.
But if it is "free", part out what you can and scrap the rest.
 
docmirror said:
-Replace all rubber components in the engine bay.
-Pull jugs, put on new rings and hone the cyl, install new springs and clean the valves.
-New tires, tubes, bearing grease.
-New batt.
-New oil, and do a pre-oil by pumping oil INTO the pressure sender so it circulates well.
-Clean, clean, clean everything.
-Remove all radios.
-Get ferry permit or see about an annual insp.
-Replace oil sender line and start engine.
-go fly.
Click to expand...
Repair hidden corrosion caused by rodent nest....
Replace unserviceable pulleys and cables....
 
That means getting it to a location where the parts can be removed, inventoried, stored, advertised, cataloged, sold, shipped, billed, etc. You gotta look at the entire picture before taking the first step. The undertow on these deals is strong, swift and deep.

JOhnH said:
I can't imagine that the money you would spend to make it airworthy couldn't easily be used to buy something already airworthy.
But if it is "free", part out what you can and scrap the rest.
Click to expand...
 
OK, add those too. I forgot the control cables and pulleys.
 
I'd take it. Put it in the backyard tied down and let my kids fly the **** out of it.
 
You would be required to inspect this old aircraft pretty close to decide if it were cost effective or not.

The paint and interior do not make it unsafe to fly.

Start at the bottom and work up
Tires, are they safe to fly?
Brake disks are they the old bendix type? if so, no, do not fly them. Cleveland conversion kit is about:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/clevelandcessna.php?clickkey=143893

spray the cylinders with WD 40 allow to set a day or two, turn engine over by hand a few times then bore scope the cylinders to see if there is any pitting on the bore. If there is none, change the oil, start it see how well it runs, it may surprise you and run great.

engine lower end is probably good if you were to retro fit after market cylinders remove a few and see whet the other steel stuff looks like, before you buy a bunch of cylinders.

hook a vacuum cleaner to the venturis and see how many instruments spin up.

have an A&P-IA inspect it IAW an annual and see what their discrepancy list looks like.

do not sign a work order that states they have authority to repair any thing with out your specific authorization.

When these old 172s are straight and clean of corrosion they are worth about 10k as a project.

be certain it has a clean title, check the FAA data base by N number see who was the last registered owner. if they are going to give it to you, get a bill of sale signed by the last registered owner.

Chasing the title might be the biggest hurtle you have.
 
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Being a creature-comfort kind of guy with a 30+ year history of long-haul trips in Cessna singles, I immediately thought about the foam that was once installed in all the seats and is now a layer of powder lying in the bottom of each seat.
 
bbchien said:
Repair hidden corrosion caused by rodent nest....
Replace unserviceable pulleys and cables....
Click to expand...

The early 172s had stainless steel cables installed in most of them, and they ride on phenolic shives with bronze bushings, I'll bet when they are oiled they will be OK.

And the ramp queens seldom get rodents, hangar queens yes, big time.
 
wabower said:
Being a creature-comfort kind of guy with a 30+ year history of long-haul trips in Cessna singles, I immediately thought about the foam that was once installed in all the seats and is now a layer of powder lying in the bottom of each seat.
Click to expand...


You got that right, the seats in this aircraft will last about 20 minutes before a spring pokes thru.

But that isn't an airworthy issue. :)
 
My fix-up budget includes all money spent. Well, at least all of it that I can identify up front, which is normally about half of it.

Tom-D said:
You got that right, the seats in this aircraft will last about 20 minutes before a spring pokes thru.

But that isn't an airworthy issue. :)
Click to expand...
 
EdFred said:
I'd have an IA/AP do an annual on it and give me the squawk list for the frame. Go from there.
Click to expand...

Same here have them tell you what needs to be done to make it airworthy.
It needs to be airworthy not pretty :D
 
ron22 said:
Same here have them tell you what needs to be done to make it airworthy.
It needs to be airworthy not pretty :D
Click to expand...

Yes, definitely not worried about pretty. Safe and useable is priority.

Any estimates on cost of Annual INSPECTION (with goal of inspecting and generating a ToDo list on just the airframe)?
 
I'll take it if you won't.

It is only a deal if you can do a good portion of the work. If you have to pay a shop for everything, the chances of you coming out ahead are low.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Yes, definitely not worried about pretty. Safe and useable is priority.

Any estimates on cost of Annual INSPECTION (with goal of inspecting and generating a ToDo list on just the airframe)?
Click to expand...

$600 to $750 in my area. But you'll probably want to add some borescope (and other misc inspection tasks) time to that. It'd still be well under $1,000...again in my area.
 
Can you afford to own an airplane? Do you want this one, this project? Sure you can scrap it or part it but that would be a shame. Let someone have it that can afford it. And I do not mean me although I imagine someone on this board would be a good candidate. Sell it cheap to someone that will fly it.
 
timwinters said:
$600 to $750 in my area. But you'll probably want to add some borescope (and other misc inspection tasks) time to that. It'd still be well under $1,000...again in my area.
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Thanks much. Good info.

Assuming the airframe could be brought to airworthy, with a $3k-$5k-$7k-$10k check, then what?

Still trying to kick around what the possible long term direction would be with regards to the engine.

rebuild-replace-upgrade?
 
It would be nice to actually see an older Cessna restored to style appropriate to it's vintage. A stock '56 172 would be pretty neat to have, even if it is still only a $25k plane when all is said and done.

Of course, there's no such thing as free. Ask around...there are plenty of "free" boats out there...
 
JoseCuervo said:
Thanks much. Good info.

Assuming the airframe could be brought to airworthy, with a $3k-$5k-$7k-$10k check, then what?

Still trying to kick around what the possible long term direction would be with regards to the engine.

rebuild-replace-upgrade?
Click to expand...

Tom's advice sounds spot-on to me... take some cheap and prudent steps to evaluate what is installed and it might very well surprise you. Maybe it is siezed completely, maybe it will run after a little TLC and give years of service.

A dog of a 150 will still cost ~20k... I'd rather have a classic 172 for the same money. Maybe strip that faded paint and polish it? That would be cool.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Still trying to kick around what the possible long term direction would be with regards to the engine.

rebuild-replace-upgrade?
Click to expand...

Long term? Follow IRAN. If you clean up the jugs and the valves, clean out the oil passages, and it runs, then run it. If you have cam problems, deal with that then, if you have carb problems, deal with that. If you just don't trust the engine, have it MOHed. Who knows? It may run for 1000 hours, or it may not make 5 hours. Run it, and learn. Change oil often and send it off for analysis.
 
A wise man once said of free (old) airplanes "It's worth exactly what you paid for it, but it will never be worth what you put into it."
That being said it might be a great learning experience. Sort of like Harvard, but with no degree after all your money is spent.
 
If you have an A&P friend who will inspect your work and sign it off you could use this to warn YOUR A&P. Keep a work log with lots of pictures. I'm slowly doing this with my plane. At my current rate I will be dead before I have done enough to earn mine.

Jim
 
Does it have logs? Damage history? not a ton of TT? Are you mechanically savvy? know a good A&P?

I'd have a AP go over it, make a list of what it NEEDS and THAT WOULD BE NICE, bust out a calculator and take a look at your available funds, add another 20% and go from there.


Paint and interior can be done for not much if you know the regs and out source it.


Could be a GREAT find, could be a pass, I'd 100% say look into it though



Good luck!
 
Shepherd said:
wise man once said of free (old) airplanes "It's worth exactly what you paid for it, but it will never be worth what you put into it."
Click to expand...


That's not always true in my experience.


Your "old man" may have been wise, but perhaps not too resourceful
 
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I'd' probably do it on the proviso that I authorize a wings off restoration and I keep the airplane for a long time. Yeah, I'll be in for way more than the aircraft is worth, but way less than a new Cessna.
 
Tom-D said:
The early 172s had stainless steel cables installed in most of them, and they ride on phenolic shives with bronze bushings, I'll bet when they are oiled they will be OK.
Click to expand...

I've not heard that term before... is that a fancy way of saying "bakelite?"
 
I'd change the oil, preflight it, check for squeaks and lube them, then go fly it around for a while and see how it does. If it does ok, fly it till it needs real money to keep flying and salvage/scrap it out.
 
Worst case, a sawzall and a trailer has it off your hands at a scrapyard within the hour. Anything you can do beyond that is just more profit.
 
If I had the space, I'd keep it. Talk about your learning experiences. It would be like a medical student having his own cadaver in his dorm room. :yes:

Besides, I'm kinda sweet on straight tail 172s. I'd keep it if it turns out to be nothing but a lawn ornament on my property. With my last name, I've got junk in my DNA anyway.
 
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