France Flying?

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

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Kimberly
I talked about this in a local airport but now want to ask the question for real:

Flying in France.

Can I do this? How? A friend of mine is now living in Paris and keeps asking me to visit. I cannot afford to go, but if one day I could the question remains:

Whatever country (Italy, France, Etc): can I fly there? How?


I (momentarily) looked into this in regards to Canada. I think you send them $45 and they convert your USA cert into a Canadian one.


Has anyone done this? How complicated and expensive can this whole process be? From conversion, to checkout, to solo, to passengers in a foreign rental aircraft?

VERY hypothetical here......


Kimberly
 
You can fly only on us registered aircraft which you won't find unless you know someone. Other than that you can fly with the local instructor. I've done it in Russia and Australia
 
sdflyer said:
You can fly only on us registered aircraft which you won't find unless you know someone. Other than that you can fly with the local instructor. I've done it in Russia and Australia
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That's strange. I thought in Canada I could "do it." As in, convert my certificate, get checked out in a plane, and go fly.

You are saying I can't do this in other countries? Ever?
 
If you want to us your US pilot certificate the easiest way to fly in Europe is to find a US registered aircraft to rent. They are not as uncommon as you might think. Another way is to fly with an instructor who is certificated in that country or just fly with a pilot from that county in a foreign registered aircraft. Again not too hard. I have a Finnish pilot friend and we have this arrangement.

The one thing you will find out is that flying in Europe will take you to a new level of expensive. In the UK they actually print coupons in the flying mags for free landings at certain airport at certain times to help reduce the cost. Going and doing touch and goes can kill you in landing fees if you are not careful. Fuel is SUPER expensive too. That is why glider flying is so darn popular there. And that brings up another idea. When in France look for a local glider club and do a few lessons!!!!
 
ScottM said:
If you want to us your US pilot certificate the easiest way to fly in Europe is to find a US registered aircraft to rent. They are not as uncommon as you might think. Another way is to fly with an instructor who is certificated in that country or just fly with a pilot from that county in a foreign registered aircraft. Again not too hard. I have a Finnish pilot friend and we have this arrangement.

The one thing you will find out is that flying in Europe will take you to a new level of expensive. In the UK they actually print coupons in the flying mags for free landings at certain airport at certain times to help reduce the cost. Going and doing touch and goes can kill you in landing fees if you are not careful. Fuel is SUPER expensive too. That is why glider flying is so darn popular there. And that brings up another idea. When in France look for a local glider club and do a few lessons!!!!
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I may never go. But a lottery ticket only costs $1
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I may never go. But a lottery ticket only costs $1
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True. But saving that dollar each week will get you closer to actually going. If you have someone to visit over there and a place to stay that will really take the edge off on the travel costs. Never say never!!

I love France, great country and great people. It is so beautiful and fascinating. I will back down on the Riviera again this month for a few days and am looking forward to it. Arrival in Nice on Monday and up into the foot hils of the alps just above Antibes. Dinner down on the Med in Juan Les Pins, then work the next day. Friday back to Nice for a relaxing time and then home via Madrid. Ahhhhh!
 
ScottM said:
True. But saving that dollar each week will get you closer to actually going. If you have someone to visit over there and a place to stay that will really take the edge off on the travel costs. Never say never!!

I love France, great country and great people. It is so beautiful and fascinating. I will back down on the Riviera again this month for a few days and am looking forward to it. Arrival in Nice on Monday and up into the foot hils of the alps just above Antibes. Dinner down on the Med in Juan Les Pins, then work the next day. Friday back to Nice for a relaxing time and then home via Madrid. Ahhhhh!
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I am so jealous. With one exception, I've never left the USA. Would be cool - someday.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
That's strange. I thought in Canada I could "do it." As in, convert my certificate, get checked out in a plane, and go fly.

You are saying I can't do this in other countries? Ever?
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You can...it just depends on the country as far as how many hoops you have to go through to get the license conversion. I looked into this a while back when I thought I was going to get orders to Australia.

Biggest thing you will find is that it will be a hell of alot more expensive flying in France than it is here!
 
I cant speak to France, but in New Zealand we actually got New Zealand pilot certificates based on our US certificates. We had to take a checkride there with their equivalent of a DE and, IIRC, do a brief test on differences. The certificates were only good for 3 months. For a longer duration, we would have had to get a New Zealand medical. With these certificates, we were legal to fly New Zealand registered planes.

From your description of Canada, it sounds like they may offer something similar, but cant be sure. (Edit: for Canada, look here: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/standards/general-personnel-usconversion-appendixa-2393.htm)
 
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ScottM said:
True. But saving that dollar each week will get you closer to actually going. If you have someone to visit over there and a place to stay that will really take the edge off on the travel costs. Never say never!!

I love France, great country and great people. It is so beautiful and fascinating. I will back down on the Riviera again this month for a few days and am looking forward to it. Arrival in Nice on Monday and up into the foot hils of the alps just above Antibes. Dinner down on the Med in Juan Les Pins, then work the next day. Friday back to Nice for a relaxing time and then home via Madrid. Ahhhhh!
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Hi Scott,

If you're in Antibes, I recommend a short visit to the beautiful village of Mougins - it's only 25 min from Antibes.
Great dining in romantic restaurants....

The fantastic medieval towns of Saint Paul de Vence, Gourdon, Tourrettes sur Loup and Valbonne are also nearby.
Highly recommended if you can spare an extra day or two...

I spent a lot of time in that region, and visiting the villages I mentionned is much more interesting and satisfying than spending the day in Nice - trust me.

Don't drink too much Rose ( pronounced Rosay ) wine :wineglass:...:)

Alon
 
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Flying in France and Europe will redefine expensive. I did do some soaring over the Les Alpille outside of St. Remy in Provence several times, which is where Van Gogh did a lot of his work. I think dual rides including the winch launch were around $100. It is a beautiful region, and the rose is really good. Actually all of the food was really good. Not too many people speak English there, but there is also not too much anti American sentiment, either. It would be a great trip.
 
It is the same deal as in most ICAO countries.

You can get a temporary validation of your FAA license. You have to take the following documents to the local office of the DGAC (civil aviation authority):


  • your pilots license, including validity date
  • your medical certificate
  • your logbook
  • an ID card or a passport, and a certificate to prove that you live in a non-EU country, if you're a EU citizen
Processing may take a week or a month ;) You may or may not have to take a checkride ;) . The validation is for VFR non-commercial flight only.

For a short trip, your best bet is to find the local aeroclub and to go up with an instructor. France is a beautyful country from the air and there is actually a pretty active general aviation sector, however at VFR altitudes the place is littered with special use airspace and local knowledge is important to stay out of the french militarys hair.
 
ScottM said:
If you want to us your US pilot certificate the easiest way to fly in Europe is to find a US registered aircraft to rent. They are not as uncommon as you might think. Another way is to fly with an instructor who is certificated in that country or just fly with a pilot from that county in a foreign registered aircraft. Again not too hard. I have a Finnish pilot friend and we have this arrangement.

The one thing you will find out is that flying in Europe will take you to a new level of expensive. In the UK they actually print coupons in the flying mags for free landings at certain airport at certain times to help reduce the cost. Going and doing touch and goes can kill you in landing fees if you are not careful. Fuel is SUPER expensive too. That is why glider flying is so darn popular there. And that brings up another idea. When in France look for a local glider club and do a few lessons!!!!
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I've had the privilege of flying in Italy & Switzerland, courtesy of a fellow Commander owner.

Ditto to Scott's comments about the expense. We were over $150 at Milano Linate before we even turned the prop. Flew from Milano to Lugano (over Lake Como) because gas taxes were about $2/gallon lower in CH (and I still think we paid more than twice the going price in the US for fuel). Still had about a $50 landing fee at Lugano plus another $40-ish ATC fee. There was another $50 or so returning to Milano.

Because of the airspace & rule differences, I'd suggest finding a flying club at one of the smaller airports in the French countryside & flying with another pilot or instructor. There are ways to get your license validated & it's really best to know the local language fluently if you go that route. Unless you plan a really long trip, my recommendation is to find a club or instructor. One thing you'll find is that many of the folks over there will be as curious about flying in the US as you are about flying in their country.

I like France a lot, especially the South of France (Nice, San Tropez, Provence, Aix en Provence) and Paris. If you trundle over to Italy, well worth it to go to Tuscany and book a balloon ride over the countryside.

I'll be headed back over later this fall on a personal project (long story), and currently have plans for either Paris or Italy (Milan->Pompeii) during the holiday season. Can't wait.....
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
That's strange. I thought in Canada I could "do it." As in, convert my certificate, get checked out in a plane, and go fly.
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If you start out from the U.S. you can fly through / land in / etc. Canada with what you have now. Just do all the paperwork nonsense, have the squawk code and be talking to ATC when you cross the magic line. No big deal for you PP types.

During my flight review, the instructor asked what I needed to cross the line (ONZ is less than 2 miles from the border). I knew what answer he was expecting, so instead I looked at him and said "a medical". (You gotta keep these guys on their toes.)
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
If you start out from the U.S. you can fly through / land in / etc. Canada with what you have now. Just do all the paperwork nonsense, have the squawk code and be talking to ATC when you cross the magic line. No big deal for you PP types.
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Wait, what? all the time I thought I needed a "radio and telemetry" license? it kept popping up in the PPL training. I have no real clue what it is, but I do know I'm supposed to have one to go to Canada... is that wrong?
 
Easiest thing to do is to find a school who will take you up and let you fly. The CFI will still be PIC but you would still get to fly in another country. I did this in Canada - we flew over Whistler, some glaciers, etc.
 
onwards said:
Wait, what? all the time I thought I needed a "radio and telemetry" license? it kept popping up in the PPL training. I have no real clue what it is, but I do know I'm supposed to have one to go to Canada... is that wrong?
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RRTOP - Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit. It's a sheet of paper from the FCC that says that you can sign your name on a credit card receipt. Required for all international operations.
 
gprellwitz said:
I cant speak to France, but in New Zealand we actually got New Zealand pilot certificates based on our US certificates. We had to take a checkride there with their equivalent of a DE and, IIRC, do a brief test on differences. The certificates were only good for 3 months. For a longer duration, we would have had to get a New Zealand medical. With these certificates, we were legal to fly New Zealand registered planes.
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That sounds pretty similar to what Australia was going to require.
 
I've got a week of meetings in York, England the end of the month. A friend there is a glider pilot and has threatened to give me a ride. I mentioned "parachute" to my wife and mother this weekend and they both freaked. I'll take him up on it, anyway. :devil: I'll take my logbook and if I get any stick time it should be an interesting entry. He is an instructor. :D
 
I lived in France for 8 years...
I don't know for a pilot's license, but the driver's license was so expensive and time consuming that I never did get a French one. I just got an international permit form the AAA every year when we came to the States on vacation.
Looks like I am going back to France for Christmas this year, I'll ask at the Bondues airstrip (http://www.aerodromedeloisirs.fr/index.html ) that's not too far from where my family still lives, to see what I can find out.

Oh ya, and I'm sure it's waaaaaaaaaay expensive and very complicated to do. Unless you pay the right person off.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That sounds pretty similar to what Australia was going to require.
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That sounds about right.

I will point out for Kimberly that, though we had our NZ licenses, we had a local pilot with us all the time, and it makes it much easier, because they know all the local landmarks and can guide you to the best places to visit. They don't need to be a CFI, or even current, to be of invaluable assistance. They aren't there to fly the airplane, but to assist you and make it a more enjoyable experience.
 
France is pretty much the same as Germany and other European (and many through the world) In that they will issue you a Day VFR Private restricted license using your US Airman's Certificate of equal or higher rating as proof. Used to be the fee was nominal, last time I did it in Germany the fee was like 25 Euro. I just went into the office at the airport one day, gave the guy my US license and medical and a couple bucks, next day I come back he's got all my stuff and my restricted German license. This allows me to fly any D-tail aircraft I am rated for (under the German experience qualifications) under Day VFR conditions. The US is the only country I know of that includes night in the basic PP. Everywhere else it's a separate rating and is basically the instrument rating without approach procedures.

HOWEVER!!!! You may be in good fortune, although it doesn't really do a lot for you except add night flight, but there are many N-tail aircraft for rent scattered all throughout the world, and you can fly those to the full extent of your rating and visa for that country. The currency requirements for IFR in Europe and GB are pretty onerous and difficult (expensive) to deal with so a lot of people keep an N number. Due to the cost of aviation in Europe, every aircraft is rentable really, though the qualifications for access vary. Last time I rented a plane in Germany I found a Skymaster for 100 euro an hour dry. That was hilarious, I was there with my cousin for the model/ RC airplane stuff and saw it in the hangar with the N tail so I asked about it with the manager. Manager gives me the owners number. I call yada yada.. I meet the Open Pilot Warranty, no worries. He didn't even want to check me out lol. I think he was praying I'd total it...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: (If he hadda asked...;).)
 
I used to fly an EI registered airplane in Ireland with only my FAA certificate. Flying day VFR didn't require me to get a license conversion. Had I wanted to fly IFR then I would have needed the license conversion.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
A friend of mine is now living in Paris and keeps asking me to visit. I cannot afford to go.....

Kimberly
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Find it difficult to afford a visit?....can't afford to fly there...period.

Fuel costs, hire costs, accomodation, food, transport from/to airports, landing fees, handling fees, insurance, etc, etc......reckon on flying around to be 3 to 4 times (conservative) more expensive than in the USA.
 
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Jeanie said:
So, do you suppose he got in BIG trouble pulling that fly under ?
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Doesn't sound like it!

http://www.proairshow.com/Eiffel.htm

http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/stupid-plane-tricks.html
Moriarty says the French were eminently reasonable about the whole thing. “If I had landed in Paris and said ‘Hey, look at me—aren’t I cool?’ I would have had some difficulty departing the country. As it was, we reached an agreement that as long as I stayed out of France for a few years no one would give me grief.
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ChrisS said:
Find it difficult to afford a visit?....can't afford to fly there...period.

Fuel costs, hire costs, accomodation, food, transport from/to airports, landing fees, handling fees, insurance, etc, etc......reckon on flying around to be 3 to 4 times (conservative) more expensive than in the USA.
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Right. I understand. This was more a hypothetical question than anything else. I do have a current "invitation" to France but not the ability to go. Just thought I would ask all the POA experts.
 
ChrisS said:
Find it difficult to afford a visit?....can't afford to fly there...period.

Fuel costs, hire costs, accomodation, food, transport from/to airports, landing fees, handling fees, insurance, etc, etc......reckon on flying around to be 3 to 4 times (conservative) more expensive than in the USA.
Click to expand...


Flying in France is not that expensive compared to its neighbouring countries. Landing- and handling is free on most small French fields. And if there is a landing fee it is about 5 to 10 euro. It is the big airports that are expensive. And for some relative cheap flying just go for a so called "Bapteme" at the aero club. And with a bit of luck one does not have fly in a Cessna or Piper but more fun aircraft like Jodels, Robins or a Rallye.
The only weird thing is the lack of restaurants at their fields, unlike Belgium, Germany and The Netherlands where the have them at nearly every field.
 
I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but I didn't apply for transfers to positions in asia, Taiwan or Singapore, because I had just finished my IR and wanted to be sure I could fly. I had less than 2 weeks to decide. No one I knew, knew anything about flying in Asia.

Any body lnow anything about flying there?
 
kmies said:
Flying in France is not that expensive compared to its neighbouring countries. Landing- and handling is free on most small French fields. And if there is a landing fee it is about 5 to 10 euro. It is the big airports that are expensive. And for some relative cheap flying just go for a so called "Bapteme" at the aero club. And with a bit of luck one does not have fly in a Cessna or Piper but more fun aircraft like Jodels, Robins or a Rallye.
The only weird thing is the lack of restaurants at their fields, unlike Belgium, Germany and The Netherlands where the have them at nearly every field.
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We are not comparing between European countries we are comparing the USA to France.

I have done extensive flying in Europe and I stand by my conservative figures (Henning quoted a slightly less conservative figure but he is probably nearer the mark.). I know that you can do cheap flying in most countries but for someone from the USA to fly in France like they are used to flying in the USA it will be an expensive experience. Most would not be satisfied to fly short trips between little airfields in the middle of nowhere with no facilities and no transport, most will want to fly between provincial towns and cities doing the tourist thing.

AVGAS on it's own is generally more than twice the cost than in the USA. Landing fees at reasonably sized airports, where there is a taxi service to take you into town (no courtesy cars) will cost $15-$30. I have had taxi fares for 2 passengers of around 10 miles and back cost $60 or more.
 
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kontiki said:
I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but I didn't apply for transfers to positions in asia, Taiwan or Singapore, because I had just finished my IR and wanted to be sure I could fly. I had less than 2 weeks to decide. No one I knew, knew anything about flying in Asia.

Any body lnow anything about flying there?
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All I know about flying in Asia is contained in this one web site - http://www.thaiflyingclub.com/ . My knowledge is limited, and no, I have not flown with them. Maybe next time I'm in Thailand (next year)?
 
ChrisS said:
We are not comparing between European countries we are comparing the USA to France.

I have done extensive flying in Europe and I stand by my conservative figures (Henning quoted a slightly less conservative figure but he is probably nearer the mark.). I know that you can do cheap flying in most countries but for someone from the USA to fly in France like they are used to flying in the USA it will be an expensive experience. Most would not be satisfied to fly short trips between little airfields in the middle of nowhere with no facilities and no transport, most will want to fly between provincial towns and cities doing the tourist thing.

AVGAS on it's own is generally more than twice the cost than in the USA. Landing fees at reasonably sized airports, where there is a taxi service to take you into town (no courtesy cars) will cost $15-$30. I have had taxi fares for 2 passengers of around 10 miles and back cost $60 or more.
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Flying here is indeed way more expensive than in the US. I just wanted to give an option about some cheap flying and still have fun and do some arial sightseeing.
 
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