Formation edit - Right Break

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Pre-takeoff checklist
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Brent
I put together a little formation video showing me and a friend returning to KCMH a few weeks ago. Entertainment only.

If you have 2:55 to kill, here you go:
 
You hold position very well, but I'd suggest trying to move down about 3-4 feet so you have vertical separation from lead. Where you are now leaves you in a vulnerable position if lead has to turn left -- you'd have nowhere to go that would allow you to keep lead in sight. If you step it down a little further, so you can see about half of lead's opposite wing and none of the top of lead's near wing, you'll be a lot safer. And if you ask Sturdy, I'll bet he'd say the same.
 
I'd say it a little more strongly. You are at times above the lead, which is incorrect location.

Say the lead climbs, he will slow into you. That's why you need to be a smidge lower and the horizon needs to be below him.

If you are a smidge below he will have vertical separation. If he leads a left turn you will be upon him in a flash. If you are below, when he begins the turn and (at constant power, slows) we'll be reading about you.

If you were on my wing in that position, I'd be peeling off to the right.
 
Is there a particular reason you weren't aligned with the runway centerline as you approached the field prior to and during the break??
 
Threefingeredjack said:
(Note: I omitted comment about the landing...which was also off center.)
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Good, because that's FFI standard (and the RV formation folks use FFI standards). Lead lands on the downwind side of the runway, two lands on the opposite side, and the rest of the formation staggers the same way. Helps avoid folks running over each other if there's a brake problem. Then, as necessary (not needed in this video's case as lead took the right side and the exit was right), each pilot (once under control with brakes tested) clears the preceding pilot across to the exit side. Had these two been exiting left with a left crosswind (so lead would land on the downwind right side), Two would say, once brakes tested and under control, "Lead's cleared over" and lead would then cross to the left side.

The alternative is the "Sturdy" landing (named for Col. Stu "Sturdy" McCurdy, USAF (ret), who is pretty much the godfather of light plane formation flying) in which each plane lands on the centerline and when under controls, eases to the exit ("cold") side. If someone has a problem, they go to the "hot" (opposite the exit) side.

As I've said before, formation flying is a great challenge and a lot of fun, but requires tranining and discipline -- and a good stanards manual, which the FFI-trained RV folks have, mostly thanks to Sturdy.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Good, because that's FFI standard (and the RV formation folks use FFI standards). Lead lands on the downwind side of the runway, two lands on the opposite side, and the rest of the formation staggers the same way. Helps avoid folks running over each other if there's a brake problem. Then, as necessary, each pilot clears the preceding pilot across to the exit side.

The alternative is the "Sturdy" landing (named for Col. Stu "Sturdy" McCurdy, USAF (ret), who is pretty much the godfather of light plane formation flying) in which each plane lands on the centerline and when under controls, eases to the exit ("cold") side. If someone has a problem, they go to the "hot" (opposite the exit) side.
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I had not considered that. The fat boys I flew needed all the runway width, and we rarely were in a two ship.
 
Hey I know where that is! Nice video, hope to get to meet you soon. :thumbsup:
 
A couple weeks ago I was in an 18 ship flight shown in this video. I was the lead of the second 3 ship element and the video was shot from my left wingman (Bravo 3). The preflight walk through had to be repeated when lead made his initial circle so tight he "flew" through the rest of the formation. All in all it went OK (yes my #2 got kinda sucked on takeoff and the left wing of the last group was a bit out of position) especially considering that several of the participants had just completed their first 4ship training the day before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeuvBJip5Ig

(Please excuse the overkill on the music).
 
Ron Levy said:
The alternative is the "Sturdy" landing (named for Col. Stu "Sturdy" McCurdy, USAF (ret), who is pretty much the godfather of light plane formation flying) in which each plane lands on the centerline and when under controls, eases to the exit ("cold") side. If someone has a problem, they go to the "hot" (opposite the exit) side.
Click to expand...

That's how we do it on the USN side as well. If you have to go around, you have the "passing lane" to do it from.

As for being stepped down, agreed that you need to be somewhat below lead. If you are in good position, nothing (including being stepped down) is going to save your life if lead breaks into you......more importantly, if you are stepped down and *you* as wingman have to maneuver suddenly, you can do so without going belly up to your lead (a big no-no when close). Beyond that, fly as tight as you comfortably can (obviously this is proportionally related to your experience level) when at or around the field.....if you are going to be the dudes coming in for a non-standard "look at me" kind of entry to the pattern (speaking to light GA here), you'd better look good doing it :)
 
Thanks for all the feedback guys - I'm always looking for ways to get better.

Regards,
 
I would love to get an RV someday. Very cool.
 
gismo said:
A couple weeks ago I was in an 18 ship flight shown in this video. I was the lead of the second 3 ship element and the video was shot from my left wingman (Bravo 3). The preflight walk through had to be repeated when lead made his initial circle so tight he "flew" through the rest of the formation. All in all it went OK (yes my #2 got kinda sucked on takeoff and the left wing of the last group was a bit out of position) especially considering that several of the participants had just completed their first 4ship training the day before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeuvBJip5Ig

(Please excuse the overkill on the music).
Click to expand...

Cool video! Looked like a good time was had by all!
Regards,
 
For those interested in pursuing this challenging, rewarding, and fun activity, I suggest contacting Formation Flight Inc., the umbrella organization of formation flying in civilian (i.e., not warbird) aircraft. They can put you in touch with the appropriate people to get formation training in your type. Contact them at:

Stu McCurdy
Formation Flight Inc.
3509 Gattis School Road
Round Rock, Texas 78664

There are significant groups of Bonanza, RV, Grumman, and Swift owners/pilots around the country doing formation clinics, and Stu knows who they are and how to find them. Warbird owners should contact the Formation and Safety Team (FAST) at http://www.flyfast.org.
 
gismo said:
A couple weeks ago I was in an 18 ship flight shown in this video.
Click to expand...

If I understood your hand signalling correctly, 123.45 MHz is not a legal air-to-air frequency in the CONUS, by the way.

122.75 MHz is.

--Carlos V.
 
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