Foreflight and ADSB speculation...

[dans2992]

Note: ForeFlight has not "locked" anything.



Appareo has not published the API for the Stratus, but anyone who wants to can get a WiFi sniffer and listen in on the Stratus/ForeFlight to learn how to talk to the Stratus if they want. But, that was Appareo's decision, not ForeFlight's.



ForeFlight has not yet built in support for any other ADS-B/AHRS devices because it costs them R&D time and money to do so which they have chosen to spend focusing on new features rather than supporting the device du jour.



And yes, I've pestered both companies about this a lot. Moreso Appareo because I own one and wish it'd work with Xavion too. But, it is what it is for the moment.

I wouldn't be so sure ForeFlight is completely removed from the choice not to publish an API. I suspect that is part of the deal between the two companies.

I love Foreflight as much as everyone else, but to say they've been spending time adding features... Well.... The feature additions have been quite small recently. I hope they're working on something big in the background....

 

[MajorTurbulence]

Note: ForeFlight has not "locked" anything.

Appareo has not published the API for the Stratus, but anyone who wants to can get a WiFi sniffer and listen in on the Stratus/ForeFlight to learn how to talk to the Stratus if they want. But, that was Appareo's decision, not ForeFlight's.

ForeFlight has not yet built in support for any other ADS-B/AHRS devices because it costs them R&D time and money to do so which they have chosen to spend focusing on new features rather than supporting the device du jour.

And yes, I've pestered both companies about this a lot. Moreso Appareo because I own one and wish it'd work with Xavion too. But, it is what it is for the moment.

John, I don't want to take away from your ADS-B discussion here but you mentioning Xavion; it provoked me into asking how you are using it now without an ADS-B compatible receiver, if you are actively using it at all. And if so, how are you juggling your Foreflight app with it on your IPad. I personally have not gotten over the recent policy changes of the company but still believe it is a groundbreaking app. And while I have not upgraded to IOS higher than 6, I can still use it on my Iphone or IPad and also realize that a compatible ADS-B receiver is desireable but not obligatory.

 

[winrose46]

I have ADS-B Out in my bonanza and while traffic is displayed on the Garmin 430, I prefer the traffic displays on the iPad or mini. The iPad solution permits me to watch the traffic and change course to remove the potential of a traffic conflict before it is presented on the 430. While I am considering options to place ADS-B Out in my C 172, I can not imagine not using the iPad or mini any plane I fly. My 2 year Foreflight subscription just expired yesterday and I prefer Wing X and FlyQ EFB. I am now down to two apps from the 6 apps I originally purchased to see which ones I preferred. My Seattle "Lifetime" charts subscription just went down the toilet (Wing X dropping those charts) with my not having any apps that use the charts I purchased.

 

[John Collins]

I have ADS-B Out in my bonanza and while traffic is displayed on the Garmin 430, I prefer the traffic displays on the iPad or mini. The iPad solution permits me to watch the traffic and change course to remove the potential of a traffic conflict before it is presented on the 430. While I am considering options to place ADS-B Out in my C 172, I can not imagine not using the iPad or mini any plane I fly. My 2 year Foreflight subscription just expired yesterday and I prefer Wing X and FlyQ EFB. I am now down to two apps from the 6 apps I originally purchased to see which ones I preferred. My Seattle "Lifetime" charts subscription just went down the toilet (Wing X dropping those charts) with my not having any apps that use the charts I purchased.

Gene,

Do you have ADS-B traffic displayed on your GNS430W from a GDL88 or are you displaying Mode S TIS from a GTX330ES? What are you using for ADS-B Out?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I wouldn't be so sure ForeFlight is completely removed from the choice not to publish an API. I suspect that is part of the deal between the two companies.

I suspect it's not, unless they also have in their contract exactly how they're going to lie about it - The story I get from both sides is consistent, and Appareo admitted to being reluctant to publish the API for fear they'd spend too much money supporting other developers.

I love Foreflight as much as everyone else, but to say they've been spending time adding features... Well.... The feature additions have been quite small recently. I hope they're working on something big in the background....

There's a new-feature release (not a .0.1 bug-fix release) about once a month or so in general, and there's usually a few bigger things and a multitude of little improvements you'd never notice if you didn't know they were there that contribute to the overall experience of the product. Many "big" features are released a piece at a time as they're completed and tested. That way, you do get some benefit and don't have to wait months for a "big" release. It's maybe not as exciting as a big release, but it gets things in your hands faster.

John, I don't want to take away from your ADS-B discussion here but you mentioning Xavion; it provoked me into asking how you are using it now without an ADS-B compatible receiver, if you are actively using it at all. And if so, how are you juggling your Foreflight app with it on your IPad. I personally have not gotten over the recent policy changes of the company but still believe it is a groundbreaking app.

I don't really use it much at all, mainly because it won't talk to the Stratus or play nice with ForeFlight. If it'd talk to the stratus I'd get parts from RAM to add a split to my yoke mount setup and mount my phone next to my iPad and run Xavion on the phone. As it is, Xavion is cool but not essential the way ForeFlight is and thus I don't really run it.

 

[netsurfr]

Interesting. My current thinking was to get a GDL88 w/ Flightstream 210 so like this option as it combines the ADSB & Flightstream BUT I already have G430Ws so wondering if they'll come out with a similar box w/o the gps built in for even less than this????

What GDL 88 interface are not included w/ this unit?

A GDL84 is essentially a GDL88 with the built in position source option with an integrated FlightStream 110 or 210. It is upgradeable to add the other GDL88 interfaces. IOW it is a repackage of an existing product.

 

[John Collins]

Interesting. My current thinking was to get a GDL88 w/ Flightstream 210 so like this option as it combines the ADSB & Flightstream BUT I already have G430Ws so wondering if they'll come out with a similar box w/o the gps built in for even less than this????

What GDL 88 interface are not included w/ this unit?

Interfacing to your GNS430W for traffic, weather, and position source and to an external TCAD or TCAS system. I would install the GDL88 and the FlightStream with your setup. It is still not clear if the GDL84 includes the GPS antenna or if this is an extra expense. The GDL88 will be less expensive to install as it will use your existing GNS430W as its position source.

The GDL84 makes sense when you don't have a GNS430W or GTN as a position source and display and plan on using an iPad for the display.

 

[lucius]

My comments, in the same order you noted:
-- Compliance without weather or traffic on panel equipment for about a difference of $1500
-- The GDL88 is remote mounted and doesn't consume any panel space
-- You are mistaken, the mode C check for the KT74 is still required, but now costs more
-- Anything can break although I will give you that an older transponder will be more likely to break, but buy a spare from the person who installed a KT74 and sold it on eBay for $500.

The next paragraph is true regardless if you install a GDL88 or a KT74, but there is an option for the GDL88 to feed your iPad and visa versa have the iPad feed your GNS430W with flightplan data.

You lose the ability to use anonymous mode.

With the GDL88, I need to display the weather and traffic somewhere. GNS 430W display is too small. Besides I have an iPad anyway. So I prefer displaying weather and traffic on my iPad. For this I need a stratus or a Flightstream. Flightstream only works with Garmin Pilot, so it locks me into an inferior iPad flight management software. I wouldn't buy a spare mode C, so the difference in cost is more than $2000, between a KT74 and GDL88 solution. The installation of a GDL88 and a Flightstream will be likely higher as well, compared with KT74, since more cabling required.
You say that the mode C check is more expensive, than for a KT-76A. Why is that?
Regards.

 

[John Collins]

You say that the mode C check is more expensive, than for a KT-76A. Why is that?
Regards.

With a mode S there are more checks mandated by the regulation and the equipment to check mode S transponders is more expensive. Many shops have a different price for mode S checks.

 

[Datadriver]

Recently, one of our club's Stratus2 units quit working and is being sent back for service.

This event led me to wonder what th future of EFBs and connection to the ADSB service might look and function like once 2020 rolls around.

Are portable ADSB units on "borrowed" time as more of the fleet installs a permanent panel solution?

Are our EFBs of choice going to talk to the panel unit like GP can to the current Garmin solution?

What's your guess?

No and no. Garmin won't open their panel protocol, so you won't be getting that info in FF or any other non-garmin tablet software.