Forced upgrade to Windows 10?

Discussion in 'Technical Corner' started by Rushie, Oct 13, 2018.

  1. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    I have Windows 7 on my laptop. I turned off automatic updating. I have "check for updates but let me choose when to download and install."

    So I got a message to restart to install updates. Instead of restarting I opened the update window and it says:

    "Your upgrade to Windows 10 is ready. Restart blah blah." WHAT?!?! I don't want Windows 10. Does anyone know if Microsoft is doing a forced upgrade?

    How do I delete this upgrade before it installs itself?
     
  2. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    doubt there is a forced upgrade & prob not a bid deal rebooting, usually an upgrade is ready means a few more clicks to get it started & doubt a win 10 upgrade will start with just a reboot
     
  3. topgun260

    topgun260 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I had the same problem with my Win 7 machine a while back. I don't remember exactly what it says during the update but there should be something that you have to check to agree to the terms during the install. Don't check it and it should revert back to whatever you had before. This worked for me anyway.
     
  4. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    Thanks for both your responses. I will be forced to shut down tomorrow because I'm flying (unless I hibernate it) but when it restarts I will just refuse the additional clicks I guess. I am suspecting this was done by my managed IT package which was supposed to have turned over update control to me a couple weeks ago. It looks like it didn't. I'm not going to be renewing that service next year.
     
  5. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    if you don't have at least 1 backup, 2 is better on 2 diff drives, i use this
    https://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm

    u can do 1 backup on your lapt, if there enuff empty space,

    also check ur hdrive, if it is failing physically, best to get a new one
    https://www.hdtune.com/download.html

    a spinning hard drive in a laptop is prone to easy damage or instant total loss, with a bump, slip or worse
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  6. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

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    Our work computers are getting forced upgraded to 10. Thankfully, my projected upgrade date is Fall 2020...:rolleyes:
     
  7. vman

    vman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    forgot to ask if your laptop has a cd or dvd drive? it can come in handy in terms of easy options, tho there are also ways around that
     
  8. Ray Eaker

    Ray Eaker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think you'll find a Windows10 folder on your C: drive that you can delete.
     
  9. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I use windows 7 at work. I doubt the work machine will ever see a 10 install. Swapping it out for a new machine is more likely. That being said, I have a dedicated pro audio machine at home that was running 7 and I opted to put 10 on it when doing some other software upgrades. I have to say don't miss 7 being on it one bit and will look forward to using 10 at work when new computer time rolls around. Shrug.
     
  10. Plano Pilot

    Plano Pilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have a Win 7 computer on the boat that I am using right now and have not gotten this message.
     
  11. hish747

    hish747 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Out of curiosity, why are you hesitant about Windows 10? It's the best update since Windows 7. As of 2020, Windows 7 will stop getting security updates so it will become increasingly unsafe to use.
     
  12. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You mean besides the spyware/phone home and the fact that it breaks some drivers, hardware, and softwares?
     
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  13. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    That would be it. Plus the fact that they tried to force me into it in 2016.

    And it's a long way til 2020 yet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
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  14. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Most of the spyware and telemetry in Win10 can be disabled, but you have to drill down pretty deep to do it. You also have to keep doing it because many of the settings are reset to Microsoft's defaults when it updates. Win10 Pro gives you somewhat more control over this (in addition to allowing you to temper the forced updates, which are the cause of the overwhelming bulk of Win10's compatibility woes); but yeah, it's still a chore.

    Aside from the spyware, however, Win10 Pro is actually a very stable and competent OS if you use only recent hardware and software. But the spying is annoying enough that I admit I find myself looking at Macs more and more often. The problem with that option (aside from the absurd hardware cost for actual Macs) is that in some ways, Apple is just as corrupt as MS is. Privacy isn't one of those ways -- yet -- but planned obsolescence certainly is. Having to replace a machine because the RAM is soldered in and can't be upgraded is a deal-killer for me. I'd take my chances building a Hackintosh before I'd buy into that racket. At least I could run Windows or Linux on it if macOS didn't work out.

    I'm told that the next generation of Macs will be more upgradeable than current ones, but I'll believe it when I see it. I think it would be a good move on their part. I doubt I'm the only one for whom then inability to upgrade is the main reason I refuse to buy a Mac.

    The other thing that baffles me about Win10 privacy concerns is when people who have Facebook accounts fret over Win10's spyware. I mean, seriously, FB is the undisputed king of spyware. Not only that, but they also have a dismal security history; so both intentionally and unintentionally, they've repeatedly put their users' personal information on the street for as long as they've been in business. If you have a FB account, then worrying about MS snooping is like worrying about that book of "Forever" stamps you just bought being lost while your house is burning down.

    Once upon a time, I believed that FB users tolerated the spying, snooping, hacks, breaches, and other privacy and security insults of Facebook because they never bothered to read the TOS. But I was wrong. Facebook's abysmal privacy practices and dismal security history are so well-known that they're the stuff of late-night television shtick. And yet people keep signing up. I really don't get it.

    But hey, whatever floats their boats.

    Rich
     
  15. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    I've been on win 10 for my private machine for a while, and my client's machine just got the 10 on Monday.

    I don't really mind it. I hate Edge and the tile stuff (so I got rid of them). No other issues.
     
  16. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    This is pretty much my exact dilemma of Windows vs Mac. As for FaceBook, I despise it, and only use it because other people I care about keeping up with use it. I wish a better alternative would catch on.

    As for that forced upgrade message, I deleted one of the downloaded updates but could not delete the other two so was forced to shut down when I flew back home. (My laptop does not have hibernate available.:()

    When I restarted, it went through a half hour of "configuring" and then restarted and.... still Windows 7! No more message about an upgrade.

    I doubt the update I deleted was a whole Windows 10 upgrade it didn't say it was. I have no idea what happened.
     
  17. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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  18. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Hard to say from here. It sounds more like it reverted. Although I find the whole thing rather odd because I thought MS was done offering the Win10 upgrade from previous versions via the GWX tool. I know they've left my Win8 machine alone. So maybe it started and then couldn't connect to actually download Win10. But I doubt that that's the case. Here's why.

    As of a few months ago (and possibly still), anyone with a valid and activated Win7 or Win 8 installation could still legally upgrade to Win10 for free. Even though the GWX tool and the free upgrade were (I think) officially withdrawn in July of 2016, as of this past summer, anyone with a valid Win7 or Win8 could still upgrade for free by going to Microsoft's Windows 10 download page, downloading the installer, and running it. The machine would upgrade using its existing Product Key to the corresponding Windows 10 level (Home or Professional). No payment would be requested or required.

    I don't know if this was intentional or accidental on MS's part. It was neither publicized nor kept a secret that the free upgrade was still available. People in the business knew and occasionally made use of the opportunity for clients who actually wanted the Win 10 upgrade (who were a minority compared to those who wanted to avoid it), but it wasn't something MS seemed to want to either publicize nor hide. It was just there. If you knew about it, you could use it.

    If that opportunity is still there (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), then the files are are still there, in the same place they've been for years. So unless the installer on your machine was looking for them in some other place that I don't know about, if it was looking for the files, it would have found them.

    I don't know about how it works on Win7, but I know that on Win10, some users who defer feature updates wind up getting them anyway because they're too obsessed with avoiding the telemetry. The telemetry settings have a "0" option, which is not really "none," but is labeled "Security" and limits telemetry to only the most critical data necessary for security updates and patches. The next level up is "1" ("Basic"), and includes some additional data about app compatibility, reliability, crashes, and so forth.

    Many users who want Microsoft to know NOTHING about them either disable telemetry altogether (which actually doesn't work, by the way: It's identical to a "0" setting, which still transmits security-related data), or set it to "0" either in the Registry or by using GPO. The problem is that the data on the build and feature update deferral preferences only get transmitted at a setting of "1" or higher. So users who want the deferred build, but who have the telemetry set to "0", will get the latest build regardless of their update path or deferral settings. That can be a big problem or no problem at all depending on what hardware and software they use.

    I don't know how it works on Win7 these days, but maybe you declined some previous update that would have set a preference for MS not to bother you about Win10 anymore. I don't know that that's the case, but it's possible.

    In short, maintaining some semblance of privacy while using Win10 is a constant challenge and a balancing act. But in fairness to MS, it's also not exactly unreasonable for users who have update preferences to allow the machine an adequate level of telemetry to let Microsoft know what those preferences are. The problem is that it's not exactly crystal-clear in the user-level documentation that the update preferences require a telemetry setting of at least "1," and you really can't expect average users to pore through documentation published primarily for the benefit of professionals to find that out.

    For me, Win 10 is worth the hassle because with my current settings, it's the most trouble-free Windows I've ever used; and I think that the data it's gathering is minimal and is limited to machine and app reliability and the like -- especially because I use a local rather than an MS login. My hardware and software are recent and mainstream; so using my update settings, by the time I get updates, they've been well-vetted in the wild and don't cause me any problems.

    In short, I tolerate -- not like -- the potential for snooping (because I don't know for a fact what data MS is collecting is collecting beyond machine reliability information and the like) because the OS works well and reliably for me. This is a work machine, and reliability is what I want on it. For the first time in my career, I'm happy with all the software I use on a daily basis -- and I'd like it to stay that way.

    But that nagging knowledge that Microsoft could start gathering data I'm not authorizing them to collect is enough for me to periodically look at what Mac is up to, as well as to keep abreast of software developments in the Linux world. MS and I are at sort of a truce point. If they violate it, I'll bail.

    Rich
     
  19. Rushie

    Rushie Pattern Altitude

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    I certainly had no idea about 0 or 1 but years ago with the Windows 10 nagware, I did go in and delete the update that was responsible for that constant pop-up.

    But here's the thing, Windows was not supposed to be doing anything at all. My IT service had in the past been handling all the updates, then they supposedly disabled that portion and turned it over to me to control. I had the setting on "check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them" and I had never chosen to download or install anything. By never we're talking about only a couple of weeks. Then this popped up:

    Windows 10.JPG

    I am starting to suspect that my IT service screwed up and didn't actually turn over control of the updates to me, and it's still being done by their software package (Kaseya). Possibly they are upgrading all their clients and I got swept up in it.

    I have the service in the first place because I have too many machines to mess with keeping up by myself and I've loved it these past few years. Hassle free and tech support a phone call away, they've fixed anything that goes wrong and not much goes wrong. But I don't think I'll get it again when I buy new laptops. When I called about this I was not satisfied with his answers, I got the feeling he might have known they screwed up but wouldn't admit it. But I can't be sure.
     
  20. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    Just a rant, but...MS really needs to get the junk out of their product, especially for business use. The last thing we want our users doing is being tempted/distracted by candy crush, xbox, and the plethora of other games it continually wants to install. We manage to control it somewhat with group policy etc., but we do have to take measures and monitor it, and as always, new versions tend to mess it up, while their documentation is clear as mud to start with.
    For home users, I still don't like it, yet it's a little more fitting at least for that marketplace.
    I agree with Rich that it seems pretty stable, but man there can be some challenges in a corporate environment with it. Lots of anomalies like SaaS products not printing at all over network printers, but work fine with local printing. Windows 7 machines don't have this issue and never have. I think (hope) as it matures it will be better.
    Just wish they would slow down on rolling out new products and focus more on quality of existing ones.

    They're taking up all my time at work when I could be goofing off on PoA :mad:
     
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