For military pilots

[Aceman]

For all my military compadres,

I wanted to know how the training equates to the civilian world. It seems like pilot training in the USAF, Army, etc.. are way more involved compared to civilian flight training. Is this true? Will you have more skills with the military planes than the civilian planes for training? How about different aircraft competancy? Also seems like military pilots fly way more different aircraft than the civilian world. Is this true?

 

[rhkennerly]

Actually, basic flight training, IFR, &. precision maneuvering (like in the commercial) are essentially the same, but more intensive & over a shorter period of time. the weeding out is brutal.

If you’re selected for “Heavies,” (c5, c17, p3, p8, c130, KC135) essentially you will have an R-ATP when you leave the military.

there are guides for the rest. It is complicated

“Skills” is a relative question. If you’re flying FA18, F16, A10, F35, etc, you’ll have a different advanced skill set from a heavy pilot. so you’ll have
skills, just not as markeable, if not in combat.

and then there are the swing wings. Lots of helicopters.

all the services have some loose cats & dogs to fly: king airs, Gulf Stream, citations, & various corporate jets for executive military transport. They’re even converting air tractor ag planes for close air support to replace the A10:

 

[Velocity173]

Well if we stick to just the initial training piece, then yeah, there’s no comparison. Just look at the battery of mental and physical tests just to qualify. And then you have to go before a board to get accepted.

What civilian helicopter flight school has a couple hundred twin turbine IFR H145s that students start training with? The sim at Ft Novosel looks like something out of a science fiction movie. Rows of sims as far as the eye can see. That’s what you get with an unlimited budget.

You have senior ground instructors that specialize in only one subject. That means weather, aero med, aerodynamics, airspace / ATC, etc. are all tailored classes with different instructors. Training aids are second to none. Cockpit procedures trainers, engine cutaways, actual airframe cutaways. Flight phys high altitude chamber, water dunker, etc.

Then there’s the pressure involved. Getting my PPL / COM, non of that was very intense. There’s a competition in the military. A pressure to perform. Getting called to stand up in the middle of class and recite limits or EPs word for word. If you get it wrong, well then you’re “that guy.”

Having said all that, well none of that matters to getting a civilian job. A civilian trained pilot can do my job just as well as me. Might have taken them longer to get the 1,000 turbine hours, but if they came from a solid background, they’ll do fine. Military training matters if you’re going into an equivalent job on the civilian side such as contract flying.

 

[Pugs]

In the military you really do start at the “assume they know nothing“ level and you learn the whole knowledge stack and there are many many places along the way to fail. In addition, as the service needs change in your training journey the grade level needed to select a track and community as well as perhaps even pass a check ride changes and you often find yourself in direct competition it’s your friends for where your life will go. It’s highly competitive and high pressure to succeed over a long period of time, even after you’re in the fleet.

I asked a friend of mine that I flew in the Navy with and who had recently retired from United flying the 787 if there was much difference at the end in the cockpit between a civilian trained and military trained pilot. He said no, the United training program really is great and he felt it pretty much level set everyone at a solid skill level. However, he noted, the civilian trained pilots had all really come up the same way and sitting in a dark cockpit for 10 hours over the Pacific with them could be tedious. The military guys all had great stories. YMMV.

 

[Velocity173]

The other advantage to the military, is that training is a full time job. For a civilian, unless they attend a college program, it’s just something they’re doing in their spare time.

Like this guy. Nothing against this method, but this is a crash course in getting a type rating with limited resources vs an Army student who has been doing it for months. By the time a typical Army student gets to the flight line, they’ve already got switchology down. When they get a simulated engine failure, the procedure is known by heart. When they get an Np under speed, they confirm the engine (#2) and announce their actions (lock out). The difference is in the details.

 

[Aceman]

Actually, basic flight training, IFR, &. precision maneuvering (like in the commercial) are essentially the same, but more intensive & over a shorter period of time. the weeding out is brutal.

If you’re selected for “Heavies,” (c5, c17, p3, p8, c130, KC135) essentially you will have an R-ATP when you leave the military.

there are guides for the rest. It is complicated

“Skills” is a relative question. If you’re flying FA18, F16, A10, F35, etc, you’ll have a different advanced skill set from a heavy pilot. so you’ll have
skills, just not as markeable, if not in combat.

and then there are the swing wings. Lots of helicopters.

all the services have some loose cats & dogs to fly: king airs, Gulf Stream, citations, & various corporate jets for executive military transport. They’re even converting air tractor ag planes for close air support to replace the A10:

This seems odd to me that the airlines don't value military experience like I had thought. Military experience seems easily more advanced than a prop plane for private and instruments. It should actually weigh more than private.

 

[YakDrvr]

This seems odd to me that the airlines don't value military experience like I had thought. Military experience seems easily more advanced than a prop plane for private and instruments. It should actually weigh more than private.

The airlines do value military flight experience greater than civilian, but they are also aware that not all military experience translates into airline operations. Military flying is all about making the mission happen while mitigating risk. Airline flying prioritizes safety (ok, profits than safety) over making the mission happen. Risk tolerance in civilian airline service is dramatically lower than in military aviation.

 

[Witmo]

This seems odd to me that the airlines don't value military experience like I had thought. Military experience seems easily more advanced than a prop plane for private and instruments. It should actually weigh more than private.

What makes you think that airlines don't value military experience.? I'm sure they would love to hire military pilots but there's a pilot shortage so they take anyone who has the hours to qualify. I'm retired military and don't know any military pilot who couldn't get a job flying for an airline if he/she applied for one.

 

[Aceman]

What makes you think that airlines don't value military experience.? I'm sure they would love to hire military pilots but there's a pilot shortage so they take anyone who has the hours to qualify. I'm retired military and don't know any military pilot who couldn't get a job flying for an airline if he/she applied for one.

Just the fact that the flying doesn't translate one-to-one with civilian. Could someone explain the restricted ATP? And the article that @rhkennerly mentioned indicates that there is some complicated "slop" going on with the conversion.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

I'm retired military and don't know any military pilot who couldn't get a job flying for an airline if he/she applied for one.

I tried in 1973. I guess there were too many of us just getting out after the war, and I never heard back after my application. Gave up and went back to my career in local television.

 

[Tools]

What airlines want are “compulsives” vice “anti socials”.

The more they pay, the closer they can come to that ideal.

Don’t believe me? Why ELSE would you be asked to take the MMPI? Also note how HR now has more say than flight ops.

It ain’t about the flying.

That being said… what you asked is mil vs civ.

Mil is much more standardized. They have BUCKET LOADS of data showing performance vs every metric possible. Typically, mil is easier to rush through training, they’ve done it before.

 

[Witmo]

I tried in 1973. I guess there were too many of us just getting out after the war, and I never heard back after my application. Gave up and went back to my career in local television.

Historically, the airline industry has had ups and downs. My last deployment to Qatar before I retired, you couldn't shake a stick without hitting a furloughed airline pilot who had volunteered to come back on active duty while waiting for their airline to recall them. More recently, there's a pilot shortage and with the requirement for every pilot to be ATP qualified, it's even worse. Ex-military pilots generally have the hours necessary to get hired today so they do get hired.