flying to disneyland

[benyflyguy]

Bonus for Fullerton would be chance to talk to the FBO guys about the kid who solo’ed after one lesson and wrecked the club plane.

 

[Heftiger]

Thanks guys. Already some helpful info.

What about the coliseum route? That’s pretty close to my direct route. I see the note about the inset but I don’t have the paper chart.

 

[Shawn]

What about the coliseum route?

Leaves you WAY too high on the other side of LAX for my liking. ATC will sometimes step you down early but that is right in the thick of the LAX arrivals looping in from the west so it can be vector city and chop and drop to get down sometimes.

Hollywood and Colosseum are only useful if transitioning further south IMO

 

[Ravioli]

Bonus for Fullerton would be chance to talk to the FBO guys about the kid who solo’ed after one lesson and wrecked the club plane.

did you write bonus or bonehead?

The FBO rents two tie-downs and some office space to the club. That's the end of their involvement.

 

[Heftiger]

From SBA area I go LAX Coastal route @5,500', once past LAX VOR (not before) you can request "lower and direct when able" then they will usually let you descend out of the 5000' Bravo shelf early, vector you SLI to keep you out of LGB departures then direct FUL.

From GMN I do GMN>track I-5>BUR>EMT>FUL @ 3,500'. That will keep you clear of Bravo. If winds are light I hug the hill just east of BUR and that keep you outta BUR traffic.

Thanks for this. This looks like a good option.

What about the departure? Looks like I can climb to 4500 right off of Fullerton while trying to reach So Cal. I’d like to climb up to 110 ASAP and just go direct.

 

[Shawn]

What about the departure? Looks like I can climb to 4500 right off of Fullerton while trying to reach So Cal. I’d like to climb up to 110 ASAP and just go direct.

You can pick up FF from FUL Ground, that sector of SoCal can be very busy and harder to establish FF in the air. You are just gonna get a 120 heading instruction upon departure per their LOA with SoCal. That is simply to keep you from running into LGB departure path should you be unable to reach SoCal for some reason. Once they have radar contact on your handoff you will get own nav and probably never even make it to a 120 heading.

I would just reverse course. I usually head out Coastal Route...the entry point at 6,500' usually times out perfect for a climb outta FUL then once north of Bravo climb to desired altitude and route.

You could do a bunch of climbing turns south of Bravo and head out Coliseum, but that just seems like a waste of time to me.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

FYI, the best way into Fullerton from the north is under the Class B from El Monte. Please, Please, Please contact ATC for advisory service. This was a big part of a safety talk here at Fullerton this month, and was pretty much the same as a talk ATC gave here about year ago. Yes, it is that important that they send someone once a year for a safety talk.

They really want you talking them through here. If you are at 3,500 under the 4,000 foot Class B floor, it is quite possible for you to mess up the flow into LAX. They run the big guys right down to 4,000 feet there at times. 3,000' or lower through there is better. Departing from Fullerton, get a VFR departure squawk on the ground. You'll get an initial 120 heading, but should be on course within just a few minutes.

I used to use the SVFR corridor over LAX, but after a near-miss (within about 200' laterally, opposing direction of flight) north of Long Beach several years ago, I stay away from the Torrance/Compton/91 Freeway area. There is an insane amount of traffic through there. I used to be opposed to a Class C at Long Beach, but now that they are openly offering VFR advisories from the ground departing FUL, I see this is a workable solution if ATC staffing remains adequate.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

You are just gonna get a 120 heading instruction upon departure per their LOA with SoCal. That is simply to keep you from running into LGB departure path should you be unable to reach SoCal for some reason. Once they have radar contact on your handoff you will get own nav and probably never even make it to a 120 heading.

The 120 heading to 1) keep you from departing head-on into arriving traffic on the VOR approach into Fullerton (2,600 feet over SLI and descending rapidly), 3) keep you from the 1,600 intercept altitude for the ILS 30 into LGB; and, 3) because they can't implement direct handoffs for northbound departures, because the boundary for the LAX approach corridor frequency is too close to Fullerton, so they need time to establish contact and get the handoff done.

We have the busiest airspace in the world, but thankfully, also the best controllers.

 

[Heftiger]

Here’s the options I’m looking at (with the understanding that the green line will be altered by vectors from ATC).
Pros and cons?

 

[Ravioli]

Your yellow line will need less radio work than the green. It also keeps you from transitioning the Bravo, only to go back and land under its approach course.

 

[Shawn]

(with the understanding that the green line will be altered by vectors from ATC).

Inbound, Yes...expect vectors SLI or LGB then FUL. Outbound you need to fly to the Coastal Route entry point without help from ATC. VFR you will only get direct LAX on a quiet night. Happens but rare. They do not vector you and expect you to fully know and fly the route without help or instruction. They will vector you for any variances, but the published route you should not hear a peep of help expect to receive the Bravo Clearance

Your yellow line will need less radio work than the green. It also keeps you from transitioning the Bravo, only to go back and land under its approach course.

My experience is counter to that. I feel that the Coastal Route is less handoffs and less traffic advisories than the EMT route. I often joke that flying THROUGH Bravo is the most relaxing flying in SoCal!

 

[Ravioli]

Mileage varies.

 

[Heftiger]

Mileage is negligible. 5 min difference on a 3+ hour flight.
I do fly into KAJO occasionally,and I’m always on flight following.
I’m flying a faster plane now and want to give myself the easiest way in & out so I can focus on flying and prevent the “chop and drop” and putting around at low altitudes to stay under the shelf.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

If you do the green route, you're either going to get vectored high and past LGB down toward SLI to approach from the south (which is what happens to IFR arrivals, or, if you're lucky, you'll have to stay high until well past the extended centerline of departures coming off 30 at LGB, and then you get truly slam-dunked into FUL. I did that once. Was not fun.

That slot just north of LGB you painted with green is where I was almost in a mid-air. You see where the Class B 2,500 foot floor touches the LGB airspace? That is no-fun land.

For the yellow route, you would actually stay north of the BUR Class C and just skirt along the ridge line. 5,500 at first, then descend over Pasadena to 3,500 at EMT, then to 3,000 below the 4,000' Class B floor. There are hills between EMT and FUL along that route, so you won't want to go much below 3,000 until you're about 8 miles north of FUL.

FYI, I've been flying in the LA Basin for 20 years, the last 14 at KFUL, at EMT for a couple years, and out of LGB for several years.