Flying the Tiger (long)

poadeleted3

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Mar 2, 2005
Messages
2,055
OMG, I am in LUST!! I wasn't sure what to expect from the Tiger. All the reports of quick, sporty handling had me wondering if I was going to be fighting with some twitchy beast, constantly feeling like I was struggling to balance on the head of a pin. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. The plane just handles "right." It's hard to describe, but the Tiger just flies the way a plane should fly. The controls are pleasantly firm without being heavy, but respond quickly and, more importantly, precisely. It takes very little control movement to do anything. Then, when you get the plane where you want it, it just seems to stay there with almost no effort. An absolute sweetheart to fly. We are taking one from Northeast Philly to Charleston, WV tomorrow, then back on Monday. I'm really looking forward to the trip now, and am sure I'll like it better than the Skyhawk. The plane is flat out far more fun to fly. The pain of not being able to land at my favorite airport has been eased somewhat. I'll just rent a Skyhawk from there and shoot a few landings :)

I've flown both Pipers and Cessnas, but most of my time is in Skyhawks and those are my former favorite planes so that is what I was really comparing the plane to. Preflight is straightforward. I liked being able to open a whole side of the cowling to check oil and inspect the engine. I could do that on the older Pipers I flew, but the Skyhawks confine you to peeking through the oil access door, and so do the new Archers I think. I can stand in front of the wing and reach into the cockpit to hit the switches I need for preflight to check gas, lights, etc., then move on without having to climb in and out. Preflight brings home an impression that the plane is small, especially the wings, which seem short.

Getting into the plane is easier than climbing into the Skyhawk. I do think that getting my son buckled into the back will be a little harder, though. I'll have to make sure we bring his booster seat, too, because the back seat sits low compared to the windows. I've also got reservations about the baggage door. It looks a little small. It took about three seconds to fall in love with the sliding canopy. Having that big open hole will do a lot to improve cabin comfort on the ground this summer! The view out the front is fantastic even on the ground, helped out by a very low panel. The low panel carries a price tag, though. I can't wear my tri-fold kneeboard without getting in the way of the yoke. Oh well, I have a fold out desk that will work beautifully in the plane. Sitting there, I found two of the things I didn't care much for in the plane, though both are minor. First, I don't like the electric flaps without preselect, though when we got to landings we just went to full flaps before turning base. I'll probably get used to that, since there doesn't seem to be any point in the intermediate settings in the Tiger. The second thing was the trim setting indicator, which is a skinny thing that I almost can't see. Of course, the only time that matters is when setting it up for takeoff, after that you never look at it.


Taxiing is a little different because of using differential braking to steer, but I got used to it very quickly. The thing will turn on a dime. That, combined with the short wings, makes taxiing in tight quarters a breeze. Unlike in the Skyhawks, I've got a great view out the front even on the ground, which also contributes to easy taxiing.

The runup is no different than in the Skyhawks and Pipers, really, then came time for takeoff. Takeoff shows why the plane is not considered a really good short field machine. It's acceleration isn't really spectacular. It feels slower than the Skyhawk, though I certainly didn't measure it. It could have just been that I was sitting on 7,000 feet of runway for what I think is the first time ever. At 60 knots I rotated and around 70 or so (I wasn't really looking) we lifted off. Once off the ground, the climb gradient is quite flat compared to the Skyhawk,
but the climb rate is quite good. The visibility out the front is fantastic. When at best rate in the Skyhawk, I usually can't see the horizon in front of me. In the Tiger, I could actually see about as well as I can out of a Skyhawk in cruise flight. Once we leveled off and let the speed build, I was really in awe of the visibility. That low panel and the nose low attitude of the plane just has the whole world coming at you. Really beautiful. It does take some getting used to, though, because in the Skyhawks I'm used to, that picture means you are in a heck of a dive. A couple times, without thinking I set the nose to where I am used to seeing it and found myself in a five hundred FPM climb. Once trimmed up, the airplane stayed right where I put it. No twitchyness or squirrelyness at all. It does take a little longer than I'm used to for the plane to get to cruise speed, but then again, it's a higher speed :) It doesn't build speed quickly, just kind of keeps getting a little faster. Stalls are a total non-event. If anything, it's even more mellow than the Cherokee.

The plane is easy to land. Being forewarned (thanks, Anthony!) I started my descent and deceleration early, and had no issues there. While slowing for stalls, I'd confirmed that the plane does NOT slow down quickly at all, so planning ahead for the pattern will definitely pay off. Abeam the numbers, we reduced power to 1800, added full flaps, and left it that way until short final. Slowed to 70 knots and held it there on final, using power to hold the glideslope, and the thing just stayed rock steady. It really responds nicely to very small changes in power. Cross the fence, pull the power, and she just about lands herself. Actually, the plane can make very short landings, so you can get into tight places in an emergency. You'll just be trucking it out LOL.

Again, I very quickly fell in love with this plane. From start to finish, it's simply a real joy to fly. I'm certainly a convert, and for most of my trips I'll be taking a Tiger instead of a Skyhawk if my family enjoys the plane as much as I did! I'll report back on that front next week. :)
 
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Joe, I've got a big grin on my face right now as that was EXACTLY almost point by point how I felt when I transitioned to the Tiger from my Cherokee. It sounds like you just plain nailed the check out.

Its a very easy plane to fly as you indicated. Did they get into any leaning procedures? Get it up to altitude and lean to the first hint of roughness, then enrichen a bit. You will get better performance and fuel burn. If its got a four probe CHT, just watch they don't go over 400F for any prolonged period. Usually its Cyl. #3 or #4 that's the culprit.

I'm glad you got to fly the Tiger. You'll be amazed at the cruise speeds you can get from a fixed gear 180 HP plane. Don't be afraid to cruise at over 2,400 RPM at altitude. Look at the cruise performance charts and fly by them. If you lean it properly, you'll burn only 10 GPH and still get 135 knots. You can go faster, but will sacrifice fuel burn. I usually cruise at 65% power.

Enjoy!!! Let us know how the trip goes.
 
Wow. I'm not sure what else to say -- "wow" really says it all. I'm jealous....

I've got to find a Tiger around here to try out one of these days

Alan Davis
Commercial Pilot - Airplane Single and Multiengine Land, Instrument Airplane
CFII (newly minted)
 
Ron Levy said:
Told ya so!


Ron. As usual you're more succint than I am. Basically my thoughts as well.

Joe. Since you let your AOPA membership expire, its time to join the AYA!

Nice to see Cap'n Ron here too!
 
Joe: Nice writeup on the Tiger, I'd love to fly one someday. They are on my short list when the time comes (about 2 yrs).

Ron: Welcome! I'm very happy with this board, and am glad you've joined us.
 
Yep, Tigers have considerable appeal to anyone who prefers a sporty sedan over a hulking SUV or minivan.

Joe, I do wonder if the short field takeoff ability couldn't be significantly enhanced by departing with minimum fuel (and cabin load if possible) on those rare occasions when you would have to rent a Skyhawk to use a particular airport. I know that by paring weight to the minimum I can comfortably work with about half my normal runway length in the Baron, but then fuel is a greater percentage of my gross weight compared to most light singles.

I too have always prefered crisp clean handling over the trucklike Cessnas and Pipers. If you ever move up to a fast retract you'll find similar control feel in a Bonanza, though the view doesn't compare with what you can see in a Tiger.
 
lancefisher said:
Yep, Tigers have considerable appeal to anyone who prefers a sporty sedan over a hulking SUV or minivan.

Joe, I do wonder if the short field takeoff ability couldn't be significantly enhanced by departing with minimum fuel (and cabin load if possible) on those rare occasions when you would have to rent a Skyhawk to use a particular airport. I know that by paring weight to the minimum I can comfortably work with about half my normal runway length in the Baron, but then fuel is a greater percentage of my gross weight compared to most light singles.

I too have always prefered crisp clean handling over the trucklike Cessnas and Pipers. If you ever move up to a fast retract you'll find similar control feel in a Bonanza, though the view doesn't compare with what you can see in a Tiger.

Lance,

Joe is talking about some attrocious field in WV called Mallory. Very short, obstructed and one way. I think it is around 2,000 ft. When I lived in PA, I was based at a 2,700 ft. semi-obstructed strip and operated there, mid-summer at gross on a regular basis with no problems. I've been in and more importantly, out of strips as short as 2,200 ft. in the Tiger with room to spare. You're right though, the lighter, the better. If I know I need short field performance, meaning sub 2,300 ft. I go light and pay attention to DA.
 
Sounds like fun, Joe! In fact, it sounds a lot like the Zlin I fly, and in which I am going to take my checkride!
 
Worse yet, Mallory has a bend in it....:-0 Not twin material, no way.
 
Nice writeup, Joe! Thanks for posting. I was really looking forward to it.

Interesting thought: anyone considered putting a STOL kit on a Tiger? Is it possible?
 
Joe, nice write-up. I still owe you a Commander ride. :blueplane:

Ron, welcome. Really glad to see you here.

bill
 
Brian Austin said:
Interesting thought: anyone considered putting a STOL kit on a Tiger? Is it possible?

Actually, I've never even heard anyone mention that. While the Tiger is no bush plane, its short field capabiliites are fine for what's its intended. The drag caused by a STOL kit would likely reduce the cruise speed and defeat the purpose of the Tiger's design and intented use (efficient speed) in the first place. With capability to easily get in and out of 2,200 ft. fields (back east) I never had to cancel a flight or divert due to not having a long enough runway.

Most of the mods for the Tiger are designed to reduce drag and increase speed, so the STOL would be counterproductive. If you need that capability get a tail dragger.

Smoketown is a piece of cake, now Reigle on the other hand....
 
Ron Levy said:
Told ya so!

Ron's shortest post, ever; and didn't even have to quote any FAR, or FAA action from memory. POA just continues to grow in stature.

HR
 
Alan Davis said:
Wow. I'm not sure what else to say -- "wow" really says it all. I'm jealous....

I've got to find a Tiger around here to try out one of these days

Here's one landing/departing our 1948' strip in Bowdoinham, ME. Bruce flies out of NH.

HR
 
Anthony said:
Actually, I've never even heard anyone mention that. While the Tiger is no bush plane, its short field capabiliites are fine for what's its intended. The drag caused by a STOL kit would likely reduce the cruise speed and defeat the purpose of the Tiger's design and intented use (efficient speed) in the first place. With capability to easily get in and out of 2,200 ft. fields (back east) I never had to cancel a flight or divert due to not having a long enough runway.

Most of the mods for the Tiger are designed to reduce drag and increase speed, so the STOL would be counterproductive. If you need that capability get a tail dragger.

Smoketown is a piece of cake, now Reigle on the other hand....
I thought STOL kits didn't add drag? Basically downswept wing tips, gap seals and vortex generators or stall fences? None should have an effect in cruise flight, right?
 
Brian Austin said:
I thought STOL kits didn't add drag? Basically downswept wing tips, gap seals and vortex generators or stall fences? None should have an effect in cruise flight, right?

I'm no STOL expert, but what little I know (very little) about aerodynamics suggests you don't get something for nothing. More lift equals more drag. Maybe the gap seals offset the drag of the drooped wing tips and other parts that hang out into the slipstream??? Dunno.

Which begs the question, why not just do the gap seals and get more cruise speed? :)
 
Anthony said:
I'm no STOL expert, but what little I know (very little) about aerodynamics suggests you don't get something for nothing. More lift equals more drag. Maybe the gap seals offset the drag of the drooped wing tips and other parts that hang out into the slipstream??? Dunno.

Some STOL measures affect cruise speed and some don't. STOL doesn't necessarily increase lift, it can just allow the same lift at lower airspeed. In any case in level flight, lift is equal to weight STOL or no STOL the lift is the same assuming the STOL measures didn't increase the weight.

Which begs the question, why not just do the gap seals and get more cruise speed? :)

IME, gap seals improve low speed control authority and little else.
 
lancefisher said:
Some STOL measures affect cruise speed and some don't. STOL doesn't necessarily increase lift, it can just allow the same lift at lower airspeed. In any case in level flight, lift is equal to weight STOL or no STOL the lift is the same assuming the STOL measures didn't increase the weight.



IME, gap seals improve low speed control authority and little else.


Interesting. Thanks Lance. Its good to hear from the experts. I guess it depends on which gap your sealing. There are places on the Tiger where gap seals reduce drag and gain speed. One that comes to mind is the prop spinner gap seal which I have done to my Tiger. Aileron and elevator gap seals probably do more to slow speed handling as you suggest, but some have indicated cruise speed increase using those methods. I have no personal experience with the aileron and elevator gap seals so I don't know what they do to the Tiger, and since there is no STC for them (that I know of), won't try it.
 
Brian Austin said:
anyone considered putting a STOL kit on a Tiger? Is it possible?

It's an idea that has been kicked around the Grumman community many times, but nobody's figured out how to do it without adding drag. The wing is already a laminar flow airfoil so there isn't much you can do there to improve the flow with VG's. There's a cuffed leading edge on every version but the original 1969-70 AA-1's, so you can't play with leading edge droop like on the STOL kits for Cessnas. Changing the flaps to a Fowler configuration is just too much work. And the tips are already shaped. Just about anything you do would mess with the speed, and folks who get Grummans generally don't want to sacrifice that.

Finally, unless you're operating off a short grass strip, there's really no need for it. I've operated a stock Cheetah out of 2500-foot hard surface runways (at sea level) up to max gross in the summer. If you want to go into worse airfields than that, I suggest you find another type of airplane.

Ron
 
First Ron sole mycomeback but I'll say it anyway Told ya so Told ya so na na na na na.

Brian: by adding mvgs you would defeat the entire purpose of the laminar wings. Step in if I'm wrong Ron but it seems counter productive to me. The Tiger is what it is and a maule is what it is if you get my drift.
 
Anthony said:
I'm no STOL expert, but what little I know (very little) about aerodynamics suggests you don't get something for nothing. More lift equals more drag. Maybe the gap seals offset the drag of the drooped wing tips and other parts that hang out into the slipstream??? Dunno.

Which begs the question, why not just do the gap seals and get more cruise speed? :)
I find that to be the case with our plane. As soon as the leading slats deploy, more power is needed or you'll come down like brick.
 
Joe Williams said:
OMG, I am in LUST!! I wasn't sure what to expect from the Tiger. All the reports of quick, sporty handling had me wondering if I was going to be fighting with some twitchy beast, constantly feeling like I was struggling to balance on the head of a pin. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. The plane just handles "right." It's hard to describe, but the Tiger just flies the way a plane should fly. The controls are pleasantly firm without being heavy, but respond quickly and, more importantly, precisely. It takes very little control movement to do anything. Then, when you get the plane where you want it, it just seems to stay there with almost no effort. An absolute sweetheart to fly. We are taking one from Northeast Philly to Charleston, WV tomorrow, then back on Monday. I'm really looking forward to the trip now, and am sure I'll like it better than the Skyhawk. The plane is flat out far more fun to fly. The pain of not being able to land at my favorite airport has been eased somewhat. I'll just rent a Skyhawk from there and shoot a few landings :)

I've flown both Pipers and Cessnas, but most of my time is in Skyhawks and those are my former favorite planes so that is what I was really comparing the plane to. Preflight is straightforward. I liked being able to open a whole side of the cowling to check oil and inspect the engine. I could do that on the older Pipers I flew, but the Skyhawks confine you to peeking through the oil access door, and so do the new Archers I think. I can stand in front of the wing and reach into the cockpit to hit the switches I need for preflight to check gas, lights, etc., then move on without having to climb in and out. Preflight brings home an impression that the plane is small, especially the wings, which seem short.

Getting into the plane is easier than climbing into the Skyhawk. I do think that getting my son buckled into the back will be a little harder, though. I'll have to make sure we bring his booster seat, too, because the back seat sits low compared to the windows. I've also got reservations about the baggage door. It looks a little small. It took about three seconds to fall in love with the sliding canopy. Having that big open hole will do a lot to improve cabin comfort on the ground this summer! The view out the front is fantastic even on the ground, helped out by a very low panel. The low panel carries a price tag, though. I can't wear my tri-fold kneeboard without getting in the way of the yoke. Oh well, I have a fold out desk that will work beautifully in the plane. Sitting there, I found two of the things I didn't care much for in the plane, though both are minor. First, I don't like the electric flaps without preselect, though when we got to landings we just went to full flaps before turning base. I'll probably get used to that, since there doesn't seem to be any point in the intermediate settings in the Tiger. The second thing was the trim setting indicator, which is a skinny thing that I almost can't see. Of course, the only time that matters is when setting it up for takeoff, after that you never look at it.


Taxiing is a little different because of using differential braking to steer, but I got used to it very quickly. The thing will turn on a dime. That, combined with the short wings, makes taxiing in tight quarters a breeze. Unlike in the Skyhawks, I've got a great view out the front even on the ground, which also contributes to easy taxiing.

The runup is no different than in the Skyhawks and Pipers, really, then came time for takeoff. Takeoff shows why the plane is not considered a really good short field machine. It's acceleration isn't really spectacular. It feels slower than the Skyhawk, though I certainly didn't measure it. It could have just been that I was sitting on 7,000 feet of runway for what I think is the first time ever. At 60 knots I rotated and around 70 or so (I wasn't really looking) we lifted off. Once off the ground, the climb gradient is quite flat compared to the Skyhawk,
but the climb rate is quite good. The visibility out the front is fantastic. When at best rate in the Skyhawk, I usually can't see the horizon in front of me. In the Tiger, I could actually see about as well as I can out of a Skyhawk in cruise flight. Once we leveled off and let the speed build, I was really in awe of the visibility. That low panel and the nose low attitude of the plane just has the whole world coming at you. Really beautiful. It does take some getting used to, though, because in the Skyhawks I'm used to, that picture means you are in a heck of a dive. A couple times, without thinking I set the nose to where I am used to seeing it and found myself in a five hundred FPM climb. Once trimmed up, the airplane stayed right where I put it. No twitchyness or squirrelyness at all. It does take a little longer than I'm used to for the plane to get to cruise speed, but then again, it's a higher speed :) It doesn't build speed quickly, just kind of keeps getting a little faster. Stalls are a total non-event. If anything, it's even more mellow than the Cherokee.

The plane is easy to land. Being forewarned (thanks, Anthony!) I started my descent and deceleration early, and had no issues there. While slowing for stalls, I'd confirmed that the plane does NOT slow down quickly at all, so planning ahead for the pattern will definitely pay off. Abeam the numbers, we reduced power to 1800, added full flaps, and left it that way until short final. Slowed to 70 knots and held it there on final, using power to hold the glideslope, and the thing just stayed rock steady. It really responds nicely to very small changes in power. Cross the fence, pull the power, and she just about lands herself. Actually, the plane can make very short landings, so you can get into tight places in an emergency. You'll just be trucking it out LOL.

Again, I very quickly fell in love with this plane. From start to finish, it's simply a real joy to fly. I'm certainly a convert, and for most of my trips I'll be taking a Tiger instead of a Skyhawk if my family enjoys the plane as much as I did! I'll report back on that front next week. :)

Main advantage for me:
So much easier to fantasize about being a fighter pilot in a low-wing...
 
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