Flying the hump in WWII

[Richard]

Read the article on flying the hump. 327 times in 2 years is every other day on average. Whew, that would be exhausting. They're planning a 60th anniversary flight.


http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/std/Weekend.html

 

[Frank Browne]

Unsung Heros in my book. C-47's over the Himalayas as often as they did couldn't have been easy or glamorous, but a contribution to the war effort of huge proportions.

 

[AdamZ]

My Wife's uncle flew the Hump in a C-47 & C-46 He lives in Lakewood NJ. We hang out at Lakewood Airport when ever we go and just talk about his experiences. His wife never wants to listen to his stories. She keeps telling him he is is boring me. I tell her to mind her own business. He can remember every detail. He tells me about flying Madam Chang's grand piano over the hump, flying Chinese troop along with 55 gallon drums of fuel. The Chinese would light fires in the back of the plane next to the fuel drums or sometimes throw out a soldier or two when flying low over the jungle because they thought it was funny. And you want to talk scary, He flew through a few thunder storms over the Himalayas yikes!! They used to call the route the aluminum trail because you could find your way just following the downed planes. Last year he gave me his flight jacket a very special gift.

 

[Kyle Thornley]

Read a story about that years ago that was quite fascinating. Don't remember the p-articulars, but basically the squadron was coming back to home base and the field was fogged in, they circled above for a while hoping for clearing, but to no avail, so as they started to go bingo fuel, they decided to start cutting a racetrack pattern while decending a bit at a time, each plane going a bit lower than the last to "blow" away the fog. I guess necessity is the mother of invention, but none for me thanks. As I read the account I had a pucker factor off the Richter Scale.

 

[Richard]

Did you know the Germans flew the hump too? I remember a story written by a P-51 pilot who said he came up on a ME-109 but was just too tired to enter a scrap. Evidently the -109 pilot was exhausted too because he simply dove away to get some distance and they flew pretty much the same route about 10 miles separation for the next 25 miles or so.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

a racetrack pattern while decending a bit at a time, each plane going a bit lower than the last to "blow" away the fog.

I have heard this story too many times for it to be made-up. Usually in a different scenario too.
Anyone know if it really is possible?

I used to visit an elderly pilot-gent in town here regularily. Sometimes he would speak of flying the hump. Passed away a few yrs back, he had been literally around the world in different airplanes, ended career with PanAm.

 

[Richard]

I know it's been tried to move fog off the field using large fans. But as fast as it moves off more comes in to replace it. Something of low viscosity is like that. The thing to do would be to heat the air.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I know it's been tried to move fog off the field using large fans. But as fast as it moves off more comes in to replace it. Something of low viscosity is like that. The thing to do would be to heat the air.

If it was very slightly IFR, seems like the engines/warm slipstream of a bunch of planes could do it if luck was on their side ?

 

[Richard]

If it was very slight MVFR, seems like the engines/warm slipstream of a bunch of planes could do it if luck was on their side ?

When the drag races were halted due to a wet track after a rain shower everyone was invited to run their cars up and down the track until it dried out. It was heat from rolling friction which dried it out.

Let's say it was just a single patch of radiation fg over the rwy. Would fans do the job? They would create wind but also lower the air and ground temps. What if air temp was rising already but the fans brought it back down to dew point? Anyway, if I was involved in the operation my luck would cancel out any good luck of the others.

Perhaps building HVAC exhaust should be vented through pipes laid around the perimeter of the field?

 

[gismo]

If it was very slight MVFR, seems like the engines/warm slipstream of a bunch of planes could do it if luck was on their side ?

I tried this once with a Bonanza with little effect. I doubt the C-47's faired any better. If the sun is high in the sky the heating is on the order of several hundred watts/m^2 and it seems to take something like half an hour to "burn through" a 100 ft of fog. The heat output of a C-47 would be around a half megawatt in cruise. Assuming very high efficiency and no heat loss to the rest of the atmosphere it would take one plane around 100 hrs or (10 planes 10 hrs) to "burn off" the fog in a 2000x100m area. I think even a C47 would run out of fuel in the attempt. I did read of some experiments in London where they tried using fires alongside the runway to dispell the fog, but I don't think that was terribly successful either.

 

[gismo]

Unsung Heros in my book. C-47's over the Himalayas as often as they did couldn't have been easy or glamorous, but a contribution to the war effort of huge proportions.

In addition to the C47's many B29's flew the hump to supply their forward bases in China for a mission to Japanese occupied territory and Japan itself. My dad's crew flew a lot of those trips which were considered dangerous enough to qualify for combat pay and mission credit. He said the biggest problem experienced by the crews was getting lost and that much of the terrain was uncharted or inaccurately charted. They did have a four course beacon based approach at the Indian airfield.

 

[bbchien]

In addition to the C47's many B29's flew the hump to supply their forward bases in China for a mission to Japanese occupied territory and Japan itself. My dad's crew flew a lot of those trips which were considered dangerous enough to qualify for combat pay and mission credit. He said the biggest problem experienced by the crews was getting lost and that much of the terrain was uncharted or inaccurately charted. They did have a four course beacon based approach at the Indian airfield.

Not to diminish the B29 missions but the real battle was fought in 1942 when the Japanese sent a column up from Burma to sack the Chinese who had already retreated to the mountains.

Nary a B29 in service at that time. The C47s kept the 46 flying P40s flying and they destroyed the column in a narrow pass on the Burmese side of the pass. The current geopolitical map might look very different had they succeeded. In that time period there was nothing more frightening than looking at the spinner of an oncoming P40. Rather like the A10 today.

 

[Skip Miller]

Rather like the A10 today.

A-10s got spinners?

Just kidding. Common wisdom says Warthogs are Ugly with a capital U. I have a Marine friend who was in Gulf War I, one of the first into Kuwait City. He states flatly that the A-10 is beautiful, and will back that up in a bar fight which the opponent is bound to lose. The underside of the A-10 is a beautiful sight to him.

-Skip

 

[Bonanza]

A-10s got spinners?

Just kidding. Common wisdom says Warthogs are Ugly with a capital U. I have a Marine friend who was in Gulf War I, one of the first into Kuwait City. He states flatly that the A-10 is beautiful, and will back that up in a bar fight which the opponent is bound to lose. The underside of the A-10 is a beautiful sight to him.

-Skip

I once had a close up encounter with a bunch of A10's. It was the 50th anniversary of D Day. I was flying a bunch of veterans over to France for the celebrations. Capital Control, who were managing the traffic over the Normandy beaches, called me up and said that there was a flight of A10's in my six o'clock at 5 miles. Seconds later they were all around me. Scary as hell but an experience not to be missed - since I survived!!!
Stephen.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

A few airplane props are used to defrost many acres of orchards about the size of an airfield, even without the heat.

Add engine heat, alng with a magnified slipsteam effect of a dozen DC3s flying as tight in tandem as pilots flying together all the time will do, and with luck, it would definately work for marginal IFR.

I tried this once with a Bonanza with little effect. I doubt the C-47's faired any better. If the sun is high in the sky the heating is on the order of several hundred watts/m^2 and it seems to take something like half an hour to "burn through" a 100 ft of fog. The heat output of a C-47 would be around a half megawatt in cruise. Assuming very high efficiency and no heat loss to the rest of the atmosphere it would take one plane around 100 hrs or (10 planes 10 hrs) to "burn off" the fog in a 2000x100m area. I think even a C47 would run out of fuel in the attempt. I did read of some experiments in London where they tried using fires alongside the runway to dispell the fog, but I don't think that was terribly successful either.

 

[Bonanza]

A few airplane props are used to defrost many acres of orchards about the size of an airfield, even without the heat.

Defrosting is a different issue.
We used to fly low over the vintners fields at dawn in helicopters to stir up the air sufficiently to prevent a frost from forming. Boring work but it paid well.
Stephen.

 

[Richard]

My Wife's uncle flew the Hump in a C-47 & C-46 He lives in Lakewood NJ. We hang out at Lakewood Airport when ever we go and just talk about his experiences. His wife never wants to listen to his stories. She keeps telling him he is is boring me. I tell her to mind her own business. He can remember every detail. He tells me about flying Madam Chang's grand piano over the hump, flying Chinese troop along with 55 gallon drums of fuel. The Chinese would light fires in the back of the plane next to the fuel drums or sometimes throw out a soldier or two when flying low over the jungle because they thought it was funny. And you want to talk scary, He flew through a few thunder storms over the Himalayas yikes!! They used to call the route the aluminum trail because you could find your way just following the downed planes. Last year he gave me his flight jacket a very special gift.

Adam, there is a website, sponsored by the USAF I think, that is dedicated to collecting the stories of these guys. Maybe someone here knows the URL.

For years we tried to get my wife's father to talk. He refused to tell us but he did relate some of his stories to his brothers at arms so maybe he would have opened up to the right people. He's gone now and all his service records were destroyed in a fire.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Sure it's different, but related, and props/smudge pots don't work if the temp spread is too much.

Defrosting is a different issue.

We used to fly low over the vintners fields at dawn in helicopters to stir up the air sufficiently to prevent a frost from forming. Boring work but it paid well.
Stephen.