Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley

German guy · Feb 22, 2011

Hi everybody,

my wife and I spent our Christmas vacation 2010 / 2011 with flying in the south west of the USA.
We flew with a commercial airline to Phoenix, AZ, where we rented a Cessna 172 from Westwind Aviation
at the Deer Valley Airport. Our experience with Westwind was top-notch, we can highly recommend them.

Over the following two weeks we flew to Las Vegas, Death Valley (while there was water in it),
Los Angeles, San Francisco, Palm Springs, Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, Monument Valley and even
went horseback riding at the Big Bend Ranch National Park in southern Texas.
On our last day we took some helicopter flying lessons, which was an 'interesting' but fun experience.

brentee · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Just plane awesome! :thumbsup:

Let'sgoflying! · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

I am going to enjoy this, I love the SW.
Darn thing is, it might inspire me to go again.

Armageddon Aviator · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Fantastic videos and inspiring pictures !

Keep em coming

All the best

Alon

Steve · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Excellent.

German guy · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Thanks for the nice comments.

Cheers,

Oliver

denverpilot · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

After discussion with a few folks who've mounted cameras, I'm not sure I would want to do your GoPro mount on the elevator for various legal reasons, but nevertheless they're great videos and I'm glad you were in a situation where you will willing to take the legal risks to get these great shots. I'm sure there's both folk who would have kittens about it and generally freak out, and others who'll do it.

As long as no GoPros are bouncing off people's heads or becoming FOD on runways and taxiways, I'm betting your risk is lower right now. A few idiots that don't know how to properly test their mounts who do stupid things will eventually ruin it for us all, I'm certain.

Thanks for the great flying scenes! The tail mounted angles are always my favorites.

German guy · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

denverpilot said:
After discussion with a few folks who've mounted cameras, I'm not sure I would want to do your GoPro mount on the elevator for various legal reasons [...]

I had the same concerns, started a thread here in the forum and even sent an e-mail to the FAA, but came up with nothing.
As I can reconcile the mounting of the GoPros outside of the aircraft with my conscience, I decided to simply do it.

The reason for this is, that during our trip to the US last April, several flight instructors, a FAA examiner and two or three A&Ps saw the wing strut mount. All were interested in it, liked the idea but none of them came up with any concerns (I didn't ask them, though).
The e-mail to the FAA was never answered.

The wing strut mount, as well as the adhesive mount are rock solid. The base of the GoPro has proven its stability at much higher speeds, I also did some own tests by applying a force manually to them, additionally to calculating the wind resistance of the camera and the strengths of the adhesive. The adhesive is VHB tape from 3M, they have white papers of it on their website. This stuff is also used to glue the glass of sky scrapers windows into the frames. It is only(!!) held by the VHB tape.

--> I feel comfortable using the wing strut mount as well as the adhesive mount.

Cheers,

Oliver

German guy · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Now, this is the very last video of the journey - we took a helicopter lesson at Air West Helicopters in Glendale. Great folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWaUCj95ARA

denverpilot · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

German guy said:
I had the same concerns, started a thread here in the forum and even sent an e-mail to the FAA, but came up with nothing.

...

The e-mail to the FAA was never answered.

...

The wing strut mount, as well as the adhesive mount are rock solid. The base of the GoPro has proven its stability at much higher speeds, I also did some own tests by applying a force manually to them...

...

--> I feel comfortable using the wing strut mount as well as the adhesive mount.

Yeah, I should have mentioned that your entire setup and this same history are linked from some of your YouTube comments, and I had already read all of the above.

The silence from the FAA is SOP for bureaucrats until someone gets hurt, then they'll throw the book at you and amend the rules to add new ones.

The "applying of a manual force" thing is of course prudent, but I'd be nervous that the aluminum of the elevator itself would deform before that tape would let go. That tape stuff (as you say here and in the previous info I had read) doesn't let go.

I just couldn't bring myself to yank on the skin of the elevator that hard in a direction it was never meant to have a twisting force applied. As far as the landing gear and various other mounts on non-airfoil members, especially in locations where it could be easily proven that no significant aerodynamic effect would take place, I'm game for that and have talked with one other co-owner about it. He's also interested in some "outside" shots.

The tech is really impressive today, for little relative cost. And the video results are even more spectacular.

I want to see some shots from your tail mount breaking out on final in IMC at close to minimums and/or entering a cloud layer. I have heard that exiting cloud layers the GoPro and other cameras are prone to fogging up pretty badly though. It'd still be a neat shot, nevertheless.

SCCutler · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

German guy said:
As I can reconcile the mounting of the GoPros outside of the aircraft with my conscience, I decided to simply do it.
...
Cheers,

Oliver

YIKES! Common sense at work. :cheerswine:

SCCutler · Feb 22, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Oliver:

Fun videos. Your bride looks so serious when she's flying - guess that's better than laughing it off, eh?

So, what do your friends back home think about flying over LAX at 2,500'? Could one do that over Frankfurt?

German guy · Feb 23, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

denverpilot said:
[...] I want to see some shots from your tail mount breaking out on final in IMC at close to minimums and/or entering a cloud layer. I have heard that exiting cloud layers the GoPro and other cameras are prone to fogging up pretty badly though. It'd still be a neat shot, nevertheless.

Breaking out of the clouds might indeed be good for some spectacular footage, especially from the elevator's perspective. Sadly, I'm not instrument rated yet. :wink2:

Fogging of the camera casing can be a pain. I therefore use, whenever possible, the open back which also comes with the GoPro.
If I have to use the closed back, I treat the inside of the lens cover with a anti fogging liquid, put the camera in it, almost close the casing and flush it with dry compressed air, before I fully close it.

I use 'canned air' similar to this here:

It is typically used to clean electronic parts. This is a trick I found on a scuba diver's forum. These guys have the same problems with their underwater camera housings.
Others put various thing into the casing to absorb the humidity.

SCCutler said:
Oliver:

Fun videos. Your bride looks so serious when she's flying - guess that's better than laughing it off, eh?

So, what do your friends back home think about flying over LAX at 2,500'? Could one do that over Frankfurt?

Glad that you liked the videos!

Not just my wife looks serious - if one sees the video he could think that we are totally pis*ed and that this is the last journey before we finally get the divorce.

:wink2:

It might be hard to belief, but we love to laugh, usually have a ball and really enjoyed the trip. :thumbsup:

I think that it is just the tension and the focus on what we are doing, which makes us look so serious...

My impression is, that neither the LA airspace nor the LA Class B transition is something that has to be feared.
I find the radio work at busy GA airports much more challenging than those with the big international airports.
All the airspace stuff is on the charts. So, all comes down to communication, what is for me as a German who speaks
English mainly during his vacations, the biggest barrier.
Deer Valley has 400.000 flight operation per year, in the video a single controller had to deal with all of this
traffic on a single runway. Frankfurt has 460000 operation each year - they however handle the traffic with a team
of at least 6 or 7 controllers.

The only thing which might possibly be some what surprising for you, if you want to fly the Frankfurt Airspace one day,
it that there are no published VFR transitions routes. You call approach 5 minutes before you reach one of the
mandatory reporting points and tell them where you are and where you want to go. You will usually get a clearance
through their airspace, but they will tell you just then which route you have to take. It's therefore difficult
to prepare yourself for the Frankfurt airspace transition.

Do you already know, when you will come to Germany? Where will you go?

Cheers,

Oliver

Jim02U · Apr 26, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Oliver, very nice photos and videos from your trip!! Looks like you folks had a really fun vacation trip! I live in Tucson, AZ and am lucky to get to fly to scenic places around the SW year round. My wife and I plan to fly to Las Vegas tomorrow and I hope to get some good shots of Hoover Dam like you did. Thanks for sharing!

German guy · Apr 26, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Jim, thank you very much for your friendly comment.
Have a great and save trip!

Cheers,

Oliver

Jim02U · May 3, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Hello again Oliver,
We had a fun trip to Las Vegas. We took a break in Havasu City on the way to Las Vegas and got to walk around the only flying B-24 in the world and a B-17 that were parked on the line there. We flew past Hoover Dam and got some good photos of it as we approached Las Vegas. We then flew into North Las Vegas (VGT) and stayed on the strip a couple nights before flying back home. I had planned to fly along the western part of the Grand Canyon on the way home, but a high wind forecast caused me to scrub that plan and fly directly home, which was a good thing since we had 45mph gusty winds in Tucson soon after we landed late morning that lasted all afternoon. We'll do a Monument Valley, Mexican Hat, Lake Powell and Grand Canyon trip another time based out of Page, AZ.
Here are some photos from our trip... press full screen to view.
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/20110429LasVegas5thAnniversaryTrip#5601232738575406002
Cheers,
Jim

Fearless Tower · May 4, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

denverpilot said:
After discussion with a few folks who've mounted cameras, I'm not sure I would want to do your GoPro mount on the elevator for various legal reasons, but nevertheless they're great videos and I'm glad you were in a situation where you will willing to take the legal risks to get these great shots. I'm sure there's both folk who would have kittens about it and generally freak out, and others who'll do it.

As long as no GoPros are bouncing off people's heads or becoming FOD on runways and taxiways, I'm betting your risk is lower right now. A few idiots that don't know how to properly test their mounts who do stupid things will eventually ruin it for us all, I'm certain.

Thanks for the great flying scenes! The tail mounted angles are always my favorites.

More than legal reasons, there are some definite safety issues involved.

Read up on the Art Scholl Top Gun crash.

I would be very reluctant to mount a camera like that on the wing or horizontal/vertical stab. You are essentially making yourself a test pilot.

Bravo3 · May 4, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

I really enjoyed your videos of your trips. Great especially because of the various points of view and the cockpit/ATC soundtrack. You guys did a great job at Deer Valley. Inspiring for this student pilot who did one landing there on a very slow night cross-country.

Your wife sure looked smooth on the helicopter. You did, too, Oliver. :wink2:

German guy · May 4, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

@Jim:

Great pictures! Looks like if you and your wife at a great time in Las Vegas!?
I also like those Cheetahs - less than 7 gph at 115 kts IAS! Amazing!

@ Fearless Tower:

I couldn't find a pictures of Art Scholl's plane with the camera installed, but I'm very sure that the size and weight of a 1980's cinematic camera is a whole different thing than those tiny GoPro Cameras which are smaller than a pack of cigarettes and weigh less than a small cellphone.
They don't have the slightest (noticeable) effect on the handling of the plane.

Therefore, my personal concerns are only legal and of course not to hurt anybody on the ground.

@ Bravo 3:

Thanks for the compliments - I already forwarded them to my wife.

Cheers,

Oliver

Jim02U · May 4, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Thanks Oliver, yes we did have a lot of fun in Vegas.

You are right about the Cheetah... very stingy on fuel. I averaged 6.5 gph for the 700+nm trip. We flew round trip and had 9g in the tanks (51g capacity) when we landed in Tucson.... I burn mogas at just under $4/g so it is very economical, yet plenty fast and lots of fun to fly.

By the way, I looked up where you live in Germany and found you live near Stuttgart.... I have visited Stuttgart and Boblingen many many times ... I worked in systems development for IBM and worked with the IBM Boblingen lab often over the years. I retired 6 yrs ago. I used to enjoy staying at the Hotel Krone in Steinenbronn... nice family owned hotel with wild game dishes to die for on the menu!! I always enjoyed my visits to Germany and have many fond memories and good friends there. One year I got to enjoy Octoberfest in Stuttgart with my friends there... I enjoyed that Octoberfest much more than the big one in Munich

Cheers,
Jim

German guy · May 5, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

@ Jim,

I'm regularly surprised how small the world is. My office if just about one mile away from IBM.
Glad you enjoyed your time here.

Cheers, Oliver

Jim02U · May 15, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Hi Oliver,
Thought you might enjoy seeing my photos of the scenic SW, shot from my Kolb Firefly Ultralight... my first plane. It was surreal flying around these beautiful places low and slow with a wide open view!
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/MonumentValleyAndMexicanHat#slideshow/5093070473200041538
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/BryceCanyon#slideshow/5093078938580584018
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/LakePowell#slideshow/5099012203971792658
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/CanyonlandsAndArchesNtlPark#slideshow/5093110429280801234
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/Sedona#slideshow/5093085685974206722
Cheers,
Jim

German guy · May 16, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Jim02U said:
Hi Oliver,
Thought you might enjoy seeing my photos of the scenic SW, shot from my Kolb Firefly Ultralight... my first plane. It was surreal flying around these beautiful places low and slow with a wide open view!
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/MonumentValleyAndMexicanHat#slideshow/5093070473200041538
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/BryceCanyon#slideshow/5093078938580584018
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/LakePowell#slideshow/5099012203971792658
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/CanyonlandsAndArchesNtlPark#slideshow/5093110429280801234
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/Sedona#slideshow/5093085685974206722
Cheers,
Jim

Hi Jim,

thanks for the beautiful pictures - they are absolutely amazing!
It must be wonderful to fly low and slow over this magnificent scenery.

Cheers,

Oliver

gprellwitz · May 16, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Jim02U said:
Hi Oliver,
Thought you might enjoy seeing my photos of the scenic SW, shot from my Kolb Firefly Ultralight... my first plane. It was surreal flying around these beautiful places low and slow with a wide open view!
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/MonumentValleyAndMexicanHat#slideshow/5093070473200041538
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/BryceCanyon#slideshow/5093078938580584018
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/LakePowell#slideshow/5099012203971792658
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/CanyonlandsAndArchesNtlPark#slideshow/5093110429280801234
https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/Sedona#slideshow/5093085685974206722
Cheers,
Jim

Wow, Jim, those are some great shots! As you say, God's artwork! The ultralight puts you at the perfect speed and altitude for some impressive framing. I just think what it would be like to lose an engine in some of those areas, and I appreciate the AirCam!

Jim02U · May 17, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Oliver and Grant,

I'm happy you enjoyed the photos from my fun flights around the SW in my first ultralight. Most people would never think of flying the places I have flown in an ultralight and rightfully so. Everyone knows that 2 cycle engines are known for being unreliable. My 40hp Rotax 447 was single ignition, single carb... the least amount of reliability available. I was however meticulous about maintenance.... changed plugs every 10hrs (until I tried fine wire), used the best synthetic oil mixed with the fuel which cut down on carbon build-up, I added redundant fuel pumps, etc. I never had a single sign of engine trouble the entire time I owned the plane.... it just purred like a kitten back there. I didn't run the engine hard and after a few hundred hours of trouble free operation, I never gave it a thought as long as it started on the first pull and EGT/CHT's were all normal...

Many people follow roads, just in case of an engine out, even in GA planes. Everyone has their own level of tolerance for risk, no matter what they are flying. After flying Monument Valley the first time in 2002, I was hooked and never looked back. To me it was worth the risk for the memories and photos I now have, but that's not how many people look at it and I understand that.... they likely think I should have my head examined... and they are probably right

Now I fly a Grumman with great visibility, but I still miss the openness and unobstructed views for photos that I had with the ultralight.

Cheers,
Jim

Jim02U · May 17, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Oliver and Grant,

I'm happy you enjoyed the photos from my fun flights around the SW in my first ultralight. Most people would never think of flying the places I have flown in an ultralight and rightfully so. Everyone knows that 2 cycle engines are known for being unreliable. My 40hp Rotax 447 was single ignition, single carb... the least amount of reliability available. I was however meticulous about maintenance.... changed plugs every 10hrs (until I tried fine wire), used the best synthetic oil mixed with the fuel which cut down on carbon build-up, I added redundant fuel pumps, etc. I never had a single sign of engine trouble the entire time I owned the plane.... it just purred like a kitten back there. I didn't run the engine hard and after a few hundred hours of trouble free operation, I never gave it a thought as long as it started on the first pull and EGT/CHT's were all normal...

Many people follow roads, just in case of an engine out, even in GA planes. Everyone has their own level of tolerance for risk, no matter what they are flying. After flying Monument Valley the first time in 2002, I was hooked and never looked back. To me it was worth the risk for the memories and photos I now have, but that's not how many people look at it and I understand that.... they likely think I should have my head examined... and they are probably right

Now I fly a Grumman with great visibility, but I still miss the openness and unobstructed views for photos that I had with the little ultralight.

Cheers,
Jim

Bravo3 · May 18, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Jim02U said:
Hi Oliver,
Thought you might enjoy seeing my photos of the scenic SW, shot from my Kolb Firefly Ultralight... my first plane. It was surreal flying around these beautiful places low and slow with a wide open view!
Cheers,
Jim

Great pics, Jim!

Since your flights are in my "backyard" they are even more inspiring than most great aerial shots. I won't be able to get as up close and personal, but your routes are definitely on my trip planner.

Bruce

Jim02U · May 19, 2011

Re: Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Va

Go for it Bruce!

Living in this area, don't miss out seeing all these places and more. After I got my Private back in early 07, I took my daughter on a Grand Canyon trip in my C-150, where we flew out of Page over Marble Canyon and down the Zuni Point corridor and then flew along the South Rim for a ways before heading South to Sedona. I plan to fly the other corridors in the future.

https://picasaweb.google.com/HefnerJim/20090324GrandCanyonTrip#slideshow/5316872651270781586

There are plenty of scenic places to see in the SW without having to get up close and personal. My ultralight was Part 103 legal, wasn't considered an airplane by the FAA, had no N number and I didn't need a pilot certificate of any kind, so I could get away with flying so low over the places I photographed. I always flew very early in the morning or in the evening, an hour before sundown. My plane was very quiet for a 2 cycle and never generated any complaints. Now I must obey all the rules.... 2000' AGL over National Parks and other protected dotted areas on the sectional. A good zoom lens can still get some nice photos, but more importantly you can enjoy seeing the beauty of nature here, unlike anywhere else IMO.

Get out there and do it, you won't be sorry! If my photos accomplish that, I'm happy.

Fly safe!
Cheers,
Jim

Bravo3 said:
Great pics, Jim!

Since your flights are in my "backyard" they are even more inspiring than most great aerial shots. I won't be able to get as up close and personal, but your routes are definitely on my trip planner.

Bruce

Flying south west USA: Death Valley, LA, San Francisco, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley

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