Flying into Canada
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Everskyward
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According to the AOPA site on flying in Canada.
http://www.aopa.org/members/pic/intl/canada/
I have flown minors into Canada but all of them have had passports. I have also run into the second issue when the mother was traveling alone with her kids and didn't have this statement. I don't know if that applies to you.
kkoran
Pattern Altitude
Planning on taxiing across the border?
NoHeat
Final Approach
I did not know that.
Another anti-abduction rule that I encountered was when I applied to renew my under-18-year-old son's passport. It was required that both parents be present and that I present not only the child's current passport but also his birth certificate. If 18 or over it's much easier to renew: just present the current passport and of course no parents at all.
Everskyward
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Here is more from the Canada Border Services Agency.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/security-securite/admiss-eng.html#s2
Mafoo
Cleared for Takeoff
Sorry if this is hijacking a thread, but I have a quick question related.
If I take off in the US, land in the US, however fly over Canada, do I have to do anything different then if I only flew over the US?
If I take off in the US, land in the US, however fly over Canada, do I have to do anything different then if I only flew over the US?
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Nothing different, it's as if you never left. Being under positive Air Traffic Control during the crossings makes it easier to prove.
kkoran
Pattern Altitude
Nothing different? I think not.Nothing different, it's as if you never left. Being under positive Air Traffic Control during the crossings makes it easier to prove.
http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_6432.html
bjohnsonmn
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Dr. O
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Kent, many of us have constant experience with entering Canadian airspace and it is neither onerous or difficult... While the regulations are myriad, the reality is, traffic as usual, else the airspace would come to a grinding halt..
The poster is correct that you call ATC and get a squawk - no VFR flight plans are wanted and in fact ATC will grumpily tell you to go talk to FSS if you raise the subject... Going direct to Cleveland from Michigan I call Detroit Approach, I am handed a squawk, pointed towards Pelee Island, ordered advise them if I change heading or altitude and that is it... Passing Pelee ATC will cancel my squawk and return me to VFR while still in Canadian airspace... One time I called that ATC's supervisor and asked why they dump me off instead of handing me to Clevland Approach (per what I presume the regs require) Their answer was (paraphrased) that if I wished I could call Cleveland on my own but I had met the requirements of the regulations when I called them and asked for a squawk before entering Canada and they were not required to hold my hand every minute...
Maneuvering an approach to Detroit City Airport almost always results in flying over the Windsor Canada VOR to stay out of the Detroit B and there is no discussion by ATC of flight plans etc..
There are the regs - and there is how it is done by local ATC...
Filing IFR makes it even more easy - just fly where the nice controller lady tells you...
The poster is correct that you call ATC and get a squawk - no VFR flight plans are wanted and in fact ATC will grumpily tell you to go talk to FSS if you raise the subject... Going direct to Cleveland from Michigan I call Detroit Approach, I am handed a squawk, pointed towards Pelee Island, ordered advise them if I change heading or altitude and that is it... Passing Pelee ATC will cancel my squawk and return me to VFR while still in Canadian airspace... One time I called that ATC's supervisor and asked why they dump me off instead of handing me to Clevland Approach (per what I presume the regs require) Their answer was (paraphrased) that if I wished I could call Cleveland on my own but I had met the requirements of the regulations when I called them and asked for a squawk before entering Canada and they were not required to hold my hand every minute...
Maneuvering an approach to Detroit City Airport almost always results in flying over the Windsor Canada VOR to stay out of the Detroit B and there is no discussion by ATC of flight plans etc..
There are the regs - and there is how it is done by local ATC...
Filing IFR makes it even more easy - just fly where the nice controller lady tells you...
Dan Thomas
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Entering Canada is a whole lot easier than entering the US. I wouldn't think that getting the non-passported kids in would be an issue, but getting them back home almost surely will. Canadians can't get into the US by air without a passport. Driving, so far, seems ok but a passport makes it easier.
I miss the days when we'd run across the border at Sumas (near Abbottsford, BC), to Spud's restaurant for lunch. Big meals at great prices. Nothing good lasts forever. Don't think Spud's is even there anymore.
Dan
I miss the days when we'd run across the border at Sumas (near Abbottsford, BC), to Spud's restaurant for lunch. Big meals at great prices. Nothing good lasts forever. Don't think Spud's is even there anymore.
Dan
Tom-D
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I believe that place is now called "Bob's Burgers and Brew"?
First, sign up for the FCC's "universal licensing system":
http://wireless.fcc.gov/uls/index.htm?job=home
Then, log into beforementioned licensing system, and apply for a restricted radiotelephone operator (I think it's the "RR" one) license online.
It'll say "$60 please". You pay it.
They send you a piece of paper in the mail. It doesn't expire.
--K
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Sam D
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Technically, yes you do. But I have yet to hear of anyone being asked to produce them. If I recall, it is an FCC requirement when flying internationally. So it would take someone in Canada asking to see it to make sure you were complying with an FCC rule.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
That is traveling to and from. Post #7 asked about simple overflight with no landings. No CBP requirements if you don't land in Canada.
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I have a radio operaters licence in my wallet. It has been there since 1977, no one in Canada, the US Bahamas, Cayman Islands, France has ever asked to see it. Ditto for the Radio Station Licence.
N747JB
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I have never been asked to see ANY registration, A/W certificate, any paperwork related to the airplane from ANY customs official with one exception. Coming back into the US from Canada I had gotten my new N number registration back, but I guess it wasn't in the computer yet and Barney Fife acted like we were Bonnie and Clyde's gang coming across the border!
The guy was a real jerk, this was pre-9-11, so if he's still working I bet he's a joy now. 
John Baker
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Having a passport may not be necessary to enter that oppressed socialist regime to the north, but to return to our glorious free Homeland, you damn sure better have one. You would also be well advised to be prepared to give a complete accounting of what you were doing up there, and why, along with a complete search of your plane and possibly a strip search of your person.
-John
-John
azure
Final Approach
As far as ATC is concerned, that's true. Since VFR flight plans also meet the requirement for being on an active flight plan, and since ATC never even sees a VFR flight plan, I would consider that maybe you aren't looking at it the right way, that the requirement for being on an active flight plan doesn't have anything to do with ATC, that ATC doesn't give two hoots, but that maybe somebody else does (thinking CBP and the Department of Fatherland Security).
A few years ago I was returning from Put-in Bay and had so much trouble raising Cleveland Approach that I forgot to activate my VFR flight plan. I didn't realize it until I called FSS back on the ground to close it, and they told me they had no open flight plan with my tail number. I didn't get in any trouble that time. I DID file an ASRS, my first ever. And I never made that mistake again. Getting away with something once, twice, three times, doesn't mean the fourth time you won't find yourself in a pack of trouble.
True -- and that is also consistent with the possibility that ATC has nothing to do with enforcing that part of the reg, but that it still exists and is in force. I do know that whenever I shoot approaches into City with my CFII, he always makes sure that I've filed since he knows that as far as the FAA is concerned, he'll be PIC so any violations of federal regs during the flight will fall on his head, too.
Dan Thomas
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No idea. It's become such an ordeal to get across the border that it's certainly not worth it for lunch. Drove through Abbotsford two weeks ago and had lunch at the Crossroads restaurant. Was good stuff.
There's an awesome place called Mission Springs Brewing Company in Mission, BC, a few miles north of the Abbotsford/Sumas road intersection. Out of the way of the freeway a bit, but worth it if you have time. It's in an old sawmill and filled with the neatest junk, some of it quite hilarious.
Dan
John Baker
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My sister and her husband lived in Yarrow B.C., very near Abbotsford. Her husband was a devout pilot who grounded himself permanently after passing out while flying alone. His lights came back on in time to avert a catastrophe.
Anyway, years later she bought him a plane ride for his birthday (middle 70s) this was about four years ago. They went up in a Warrior with an instructor.
Anyway, the part I found interesting was that they flew south into the U.S., flew around for a little over an hour, then back across the border to Canada. I asked her about it, and their instructor said that nobody cared as long as they did not land.
They both died two years ago. (natural causes.)
-John
Anyway, years later she bought him a plane ride for his birthday (middle 70s) this was about four years ago. They went up in a Warrior with an instructor.
Anyway, the part I found interesting was that they flew south into the U.S., flew around for a little over an hour, then back across the border to Canada. I asked her about it, and their instructor said that nobody cared as long as they did not land.
They both died two years ago. (natural causes.)
-John
Captain
Final Approach
My understanding is you can fly into canada without anything...no flight plan or squawk or flight following...nothing as long as you don't touch the ground.
I seem to even remember an airport in the U.S. right on the boarder that is so close the traffic pattern goes into Canada. Mexico not so much. That boarder is a wall that you can not cross without ATC clearance and customs paperwork.
Also, returning from Canada the U.S. allows overflights meaning you don't have to stop and clear customs at the first intn'l airport you get to. Bahamas and Mexico require a stop at the first customs airport you get to before continuing on unless you meet certain requirements and have an overflight permit.
I seem to even remember an airport in the U.S. right on the boarder that is so close the traffic pattern goes into Canada. Mexico not so much. That boarder is a wall that you can not cross without ATC clearance and customs paperwork.
Also, returning from Canada the U.S. allows overflights meaning you don't have to stop and clear customs at the first intn'l airport you get to. Bahamas and Mexico require a stop at the first customs airport you get to before continuing on unless you meet certain requirements and have an overflight permit.
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ChrisK
En-Route
I'm planning a Canadian overflight from Cleveland to Detroit shortly after I get my ticket, and have been following this thread with great interest. I just (re)applied for my Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit, and as far as I can tell, that's pretty much the only thing I have to do. It seems that I don't need any special markings or stickers or a 12" tail number, and all I really do is file a VFR flight plan with "Canadian overflight" in the remarks section. I'm a little curious how I make the initial call though. Does one simply call Cleveland Approach and say on my initial call that I intend Canadian overflight? Do I call Canadian ATC prior to entering? From whom do I get a code?
From reading this thread, it seems that while one can occasionally venture into Canadian airspace without much issue, I'd rather do things as "by the book" as I possibly can.
From reading this thread, it seems that while one can occasionally venture into Canadian airspace without much issue, I'd rather do things as "by the book" as I possibly can.
John Baker
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I've never flown into Canada or done an overflight, but I believe the easiest way to do an overflight is just call for flight following when you start your trip on the U.S. side. My guess would be that you would be just handed off to Canadian controllers, eh.
-John
ChrisK
En-Route
That's kinda what I thought, but if Cleveland is too busy to get me into the system, does that mean I can't overfly Canada?
azure
Final Approach
Just call up Cleveland Approach, tell them your destination and cruising altitude, and request flight following. You activate your VFR flight plan with FSS and it's best to do that before calling up Approach. In fact, when I use the VFR flight plan method, I generally activate with FSS by phone since there are so many FSS RCOs that are OTS that it can be hard to reach them by radio once you're airborne.
The other kind of flight plan you can use is to check the IFR box but put VFR/065 or whatever altitude you plan to cruise at (in hundreds of feet MSL) in the altitude box. That avoids the hassle of activating with FSS, and simplifies the initial call-up to ATC, since they will have all your route and altitude info in front of them. This method is frowned upon by some aficionados and legal beagles however, and some FSS briefers will refuse to file that way for you, so YMMV.
ChrisK
En-Route
Ok. I'll try that out with a VFR flight plan. I might say "request flight following Canadian overflight" in my initial call to increase the odds that I get services.
azure
Final Approach
Yes, but that's never happened to me on a Canadian overflight and I've done this many many times. I guess it's possible, but the fact that you're required to be in two-way communication with ATC probably puts you at somewhat higher priority.
Particularly if you file IFR + VFR/altitude, since you will already be in the ATC system that way.
Oh, and you should be handed off to Detroit not to Canadian ATC. Even if you go from BUF to Detroit, you will never talk to Canadian ATC.
ChrisK
En-Route
Great thank you! This is much more clear.
rainsux
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ChrisK,
- The flight plan must be filed (VFR or IFR)
- The flight plan must be active. (VFR or IFR)
- Ad-hoc Flight Following is insufficient.
- Pop-up IFR flight plans w/ATC give CBP (AMOC) considerable heartburn
... and may result in you meeting them or other LEOs upon landing. Or; an
airborne intercept.
- Contact Cleveland Approach first. They will not have your VFR flight
plan. So on your first call, you'll likely need to explain that you are "direct
Detroit" (overflying Canada) and need to maintain ATC comms/squawk.
(lest they simply RSTSVFRFCAGD). It's unlikely that you'll chat with
Canadian ATC (unless you are transiting the Windsor CZ/CDA?).
- CBP & the Detroit FSDO will violate you if you put so much as a wingtip
into Canadian airspace without following their rules. The path between
Detroit and the Lake Erie islands is a very popular hunting ground for CBP.
- CBP intercepts in Detroit can be exciting. Nothing like seeing an
aircraft shadow ... then seeing a Citation pull ahead from beneath, ~100'
below. They also operate: C206, C210, C90, UH1, UH60, A-Star, MD500
and Citation.
- Be aware of the nuke plants near Toledo & Monroe ... both have ATC
and CBP on speed-dial. DET Tower & DTW Approach both aggressively
enforce the downtown stadium TFRs. There is a VFR corridor, but it's
small; both laterally & vertically. I'll try to attach an UNofficial chart.
- Seems you are a student. Did your training include lake crossings and
haze? On hazy days, it can easily become an inadvertent VMC-to-IMC
event.
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ChrisK
En-Route
Check. Plan on filing and activating prior to taking off.
I wasn't specific, but I plan on flying to SKY and then from SKY direct to 76G. This will make me island hop a bit, with about 14 miles max over water. Since I'm actually planning on going to Marine City rather than Detroit, I'll be bypassing all of the restricted Detroit airspace. I should have mentioned that, but having grown up in Croswell and lived in the Detroit Metro area for most of my life, I didn't want to get that specific. Hopefully this SKY -> 76G route, while it takes me over some busy island airports, will make things a little easier for me.
I am a little concerned about that, and plan on making some shorter excursions north of Cleveland in US airspace to get some lake experience. I will have a couple of "situational awareness" devices, and will not only be conservative with my weather decisions, but will likely run my plans by some local CFIs prior to departing due to my lack of experience. My training certainly included some haze as my home airport / area sees quite a bit of it, but your point about haze over the water is well taken. My DPE said as much about doing maneuvers over Lake Erie. He has to point all of his candidates to a heading of 180 when they leave Burke or they get completely disoriented during maneuvers with no horizon available.
rainsux
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Haze over the Great Lakes can be significantly different than haze over terra firma. My first experience was a WHOA! event. Just like being in the clouds.
For a new PPL, having an autopilot/wing leveler could be a life saver.
For a new PPL, having an autopilot/wing leveler could be a life saver.
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ChrisK
En-Route
Oooh. Maybe I'll take an IFR "safety pilot" just in case.
rainsux
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> Particularly if you file IFR + VFR
Huh? I hope you aren't filing composite FPs until you complete your IA check ride. Until then, file a VFR flight plan using VFR altitudes.
Huh? I hope you aren't filing composite FPs until you complete your IA check ride. Until then, file a VFR flight plan using VFR altitudes.
ChrisK
En-Route
Uh yes. I'm not going to be filling ifr until such time I'm allowed to do so. I am just suggesting that I can take a more experienced pilot along.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Technically, it's required by treaty. The FCC is just the U.S. enforcement agency. But they didn't create the rule.
azure
Final Approach
Next time leave the entire line intact instead of mangling a quote to make it mean something different. In case that was an innocent mistake, go back to post #30 and you'll see that what I was suggesting as an alternative to an FSS VFR flight plan is something that has been discussed here at length, and is purely an ATC hack (for VFR only) and not a composite flight plan at all.