Flying into Airventure 2016

[Auburn2002]

mostly a dry event.

That's why you fly it in with you.

 

[deonb]

She then begins her OSH tirade, which I didn't bother reading. She sounds like a nasty, self-important, miserable person and I really don't care what those kind of people have to say.

Wow, you called it. Here are some gems from that part:

• I beckoned one to the open door of my airplane and yelled, “If you f------ can't see me, lady, I f------ can’t see you.”

• as we tied ’72B in the grass, a big-bellied, orange-vested person in a golf cart drove up and announced, “This grass is a taxiway, so understand you won’t be permitted to return to your airplane without an escort.” By now my usual, abnormally low blood pressure had risen to record heights and I said, “You wanna bet? If I need to get to my airplane, fella, I damned well will.”

 

[FredFenster]

Former FAA inspector. yeah that fits.

I liked the part about lying about a family emergency to get out before the airport shut down for the air show.. Real classy.

 

[KFD]

That's why you fly it in with you.

Yep. Let me just say that last week at Oshkosh was not a dry event for me.

I brought in 8 bottles of wine and about 24 beers. And besides that I downed a few at Friar Tucks and other establishments within Uber distance.

I did share my drinks with others though before you start jumping to conclusions about the state of my liver...

 

[RudyP]

I was actually really surprised that they don't sell alcohol. We had a couple beers at SOS and also Friar Tucks but mostly a dry event.
I bet they would make a killing if they had a couple tiki huts selling frosty glasses of whatnot.

They do after five on the show grounds or in some of the non-show ground but close areas (SOS Brothers beer tent comes to mind)

 

[KFD]

When I flew up in 2011, we were getting to RIPON right after the F-16 ran off the runway and broke up so they only had 27 open; we heard comments from guys circling the lake 6+ times and saying they'd have to divert for fuel if they were hung out much longer. But everything worked out just fine, the controllers are great. Had a fun moment when on downwind as the tower was trying to contact a random Mooney crossing the field at 1000', did not come from RIPON/FISKE - Mooney finally comes online and says "ah, yes, this is the Mooney over the field, request permission to land at Oshkosh." Literally 1000' AGL over the middle of the field. Unreal.

I wonder how far back liveatc recordings are available. Would love to find that one.

Flying into Oshkosh is the best part of it for me. I like coming in when it is really busy. It sounds crazy but you have lots of time to react at the slower speeds. Remember you're supposed to be slowing to 90 knots at Ripon. My experience is that it is that or lower, and at those low speeds you have lots of time to ponder and decide which way to turn. It's not like you're in a situation where you have to make a split second decision or otherwise you die. Not at all. I love working my way into the conga line and then landing on one of the colored dots. The safety record speaks for itself. There are very few accidents.

 

[Cajun_Flyer]

They do after five on the show grounds or in some of the non-show ground but close areas (SOS Brothers beer tent comes to mind)

I'll require a map of these locations for next year's event. I'm a thirsty pilot.

 

[steingar]

The Lucky Strike landed square on the orange dot for its first Oshkosh. Its pilot is a 16 year veteran, though. I had to go around one year, it was fun. Honestly it was. Usually don't fly like that, but enjoy it when I do.

 

[KFD]

They do after five on the show grounds or in some of the non-show ground but close areas (SOS Brothers beer tent comes to mind)

Uber was very much available and there are a lot of really good alternatives within a $10-$15 uber ride from the grounds. Unless you think Bud Lite is a good beer, you can do a whole lot better by going elsewhere if you haven't brought your own beer.

 

[ChemGuy]

I was actually really surprised that they don't sell alcohol. We had a couple beers at SOS and also Friar Tucks but mostly a dry event.
I bet they would make a killing if they had a couple tiki huts selling frosty glasses of whatnot.

They had beer at the SOS tent? I guess i was ...... too distracted, yeah thats the ticket, too distracted to notice the beer.

 

[FloridaPilot]

Smart man. FloridaPilot has no idea how much people drink at Oshkosh!

Nothing that a Piper Six and a few kegs can't solve!

 

[FloridaPilot]

I was actually really surprised that they don't sell alcohol. We had a couple beers at SOS and also Friar Tucks but mostly a dry event.
I bet they would make a killing if they had a couple tiki huts selling frosty glasses of whatnot.

Airplanes and parts of them would be all over the place

 

[ChemGuy]

Airplanes and parts of them would be all over the place

How would that be any different than what was there already?
Planes everywhere.
People everywhere.
Pieces of planes everywhere in the vendor area.

All that was missing was the beer.

 

[StinkBug]

All of this is why I was really happy to be flying in with the Mooney Caravan. Not only did I make a ton of new friends and have a great place to hang out all week, but I also didn't have to fly the arrival. Just take off from Madison in formation, and when Lead calls tower and tells us we're on final they make a hole for us. 41 planes on the ground in a matter of minutes and no worrying about what color dot, or who's landing near you. I landed 10' to the right of someone I know and trust to do that safely. Zero stress beyond wanting to make the landing look good for the crowd.

 

[fiveoboy01]

Did a Mooney land gear up? That's what I heard, but couldn't get verification.

Sunday I sat on the south side of 27 maybe 500 feet west of the green dot and it's always entertaining. Lots of close calls, and you could really see which pilots exercised sound judgement and some who, well, didn't. Also, I have to wonder if some of those guys read the notam at all. Tying up the radio, not getting off the damn runway, coming in without the proper spacing and completely screwing up the sequence, one guy tried to come in on final for 9 into opposing traffic...

Some guy in a cirrus bounced it about 3 times and bent the nose gear pretty severely... shimmying and shaking like mad and he applied full power to take off again... LOL. Got airborne a couple, feet and then realized that he should just put it back on the ground.

 

[Auburn2002]

Wow, you called it. Here are some gems from that part:

• I beckoned one to the open door of my airplane and yelled, “If you f------ can't see me, lady, I f------ can’t see you.”

• as we tied ’72B in the grass, a big-bellied, orange-vested person in a golf cart drove up and announced, “This grass is a taxiway, so understand you won’t be permitted to return to your airplane without an escort.” By now my usual, abnormally low blood pressure had risen to record heights and I said, “You wanna bet? If I need to get to my airplane, fella, I damned well will.”

I think the lack of damning comments on the article just goes to show how many people DON'T read flyingmag.com.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Did a Mooney land gear up? That's what I heard, but couldn't get verification.

Sunday I sat on the south side of 27 maybe 500 feet west of the green dot and it's always entertaining. Lots of close calls, and you could really see which pilots exercised sound judgement and some who, well, didn't. Also, I have to wonder if some of those guys read the notam at all. Tying up the radio, not getting off the damn runway, coming in without the proper spacing and completely screwing up the sequence, one guy tried to come in on final for 9 into opposing traffic...

Some guy in a cirrus bounced it about 3 times and bent the nose gear pretty severely... shimmying and shaking like mad and he applied full power to take off again... LOL. Got airborne a couple, feet and then realized that he should just put it back on the ground.

Hoo boy -- I saw that Cirrus "land"! He effed up that nose gear, but good.

 

[steingar]

Did a Mooney land gear up? That's what I heard, but couldn't get verification.

I believe so, someone flying the FISK approach. Sounded like a mechanical deal.

 

[Anymouse]

Okay. Just read the Flying article. I used to like Martha's articles on the rare occasion that I actually pick up a Flying magazine. However, after reading that article, all I can say is, "What a *****!"

 

[Jay Honeck]

Okay. Just read the Flying article. I used to like Martha's articles on the rare occasion that I actually pick up a Flying magazine. However, after reading that article, all I can say is, "What a *****!"

I just realized what article you guys are talking about. Martha Lunken's diatribe against Oshkosh was published several months ago -- it was not written in response to OSH 2016. It raised a firestorm of response, from pilots who thought she was daft.

I like her writing, but she's out of her effing mind when it comes to OSH.

 

[fiveoboy01]

Hoo boy -- I saw that Cirrus "land"! He effed up that nose gear, but good.

We really thought he was going to stall it. Nose high, and a pretty good bank angle after that first big bounce.

I wonder if he struck the prop...

 

[Jay Honeck]

Oh, and yes, a Mooney landed gear up on the Sunday before the show. That's what closed the airport and threw all of y'all into the Rush and Green Lake holds.

Actually, from what I heard he landed with the gear down, and it collapsed on roll out. I didn't see it happen, so I have no verification of that one way or the other.

 

[RudyP]

http://m.aviationweek.com/business-aviation/unstable-approaches-rampant-sunday-airventure-arrivals

 

[StinkBug]

Did a Mooney land gear up? That's what I heard, but couldn't get verification.

Yes, but not one of the ones with the Caravan, I've heard from many he landed hard and the gear collapsed afterwards. In fact that Mooney was a contributing factor to the Mooney Caravans late arrival. Mostly we were waiting for safe ceilings though.

 

[Omalley1537]

Just read a short bio on Martha, in addition to the article. She sounds like a completely self-absorbed human being (not my first choice of descriptor...) who thinks the world revolves around her. People like her need more people to tell her where to stuff it.

 

[Jay Honeck]

http://m.aviationweek.com/business-aviation/unstable-approaches-rampant-sunday-airventure-arrivals

What a silly article. Landing at OSH is often going to involve last minute adjustments, as ordered by the controllers. This is going to mean carrying the landing farther down than initially planned, flying "close to the ground", which (according to the author) is "unstable".

This is the kind of article that starts the "Risk Managers" down the road of thinking about ways to curtail Oshkosh arrivals.

 

[Mistake Not...]

Her article isn't painting her in the best light, true. But it's nice to see I'm not the only pilot that's "meh" about Oshkosh. Been twice... drove once('87), flew in once ('94). Stoked because everything you read and all anyone talks about is how great it is.

It's definitely one of those "If this is the kind of thing you like, then you'll like this thing" things. But don't assume just because you're a pilot that this is the thing for you. Yes, there are a lot of airplane and airplane related attractions. And if OSH were held in my town and I could drive, park and walk a reasonable distance and still sleep in my own bed that night, I might go for a day. But the stuff that's there isn't interesting enough, to me, to make all the other stuff (which I don't enjoy) worth it.

It's nice most of you enjoy Oshkosh. It's a fine event run by good people. But it is not for me.

 

[RudyP]

What a silly article. Landing at OSH is often going to involve last minute adjustments, as ordered by the controllers. This is going to mean carrying the landing farther down than initially planned, flying "close to the ground", which (according to the author) is "unstable".

This is the kind of article that starts the "Risk Managers" down the road of thinking about ways to curtail Oshkosh arrivals.

I agree Jay - pretty poorly written for an aviation magazine. I don't endorse the article, just thought it was interesting to see what's out there.

 

[tuwood]

Oh, and yes, a Mooney landed gear up on the Sunday before the show. That's what closed the airport and threw all of y'all into the Rush and Green Lake holds.

Actually, from what I heard he landed with the gear down, and it collapsed on roll out. I didn't see it happen, so I have no verification of that one way or the other.

You are correct. I was on the north side of 27 at about the 500' marker and witnessed it. He was coming in pretty fast and bounced it a little and looked like he set it back down fine and then the gear just collapsed. I couldn't tell if he doinked the nose coming back down, but it honestly didn't look like that bad of a landing so I tend to think it was bad gear collapsing after landing.

 

[Anymouse]

Her article isn't painting her in the best light, true. But it's nice to see I'm not the only pilot that's "meh" about Oshkosh. Been twice... drove once('87), flew in once ('94). Stoked because everything you read and all anyone talks about is how great it is.

It's definitely one of those "If this is the kind of thing you like, then you'll like this thing" things. But don't assume just because you're a pilot that this is the thing for you. Yes, there are a lot of airplane and airplane related attractions. And if OSH were held in my town and I could drive, park and walk a reasonable distance and still sleep in my own bed that night, I might go for a day. But the stuff that's there isn't interesting enough, to me, to make all the other stuff (which I don't enjoy) worth it.

It's nice most of you enjoy Oshkosh. It's a fine event run by good people. But it is not for me.

I'm kinda "meh" about Oshkosh too. When I go, it's to see old friends and look at new gadgets more than anything else. However, the way she describes treating people, sheesh!!

 

[OkieFlyer]

Thanks for the vid 6PC. It is a unique experience isn't it? Now you're ready to fly it yourself.

We flew in on Wednesday evening, between the afternoon and night airshows. After listening to ATIS, which clearly explained everything we needed to know, we tuned into the Fisk control frequency, about 15 miles from Ripon. As we approached, it became evident that there were a bunch of people in the Rush and Green Lake holds, both at 1800' and 2300', so we braced for a sh*t show. ATC was already releasing the people at 2300' to head up the tracks. About 5 miles out from Ripon, they were letting the guys at 1800' start heading up the tracks. As we approached Ripon, we could see the line of planes making the northbound turn out of the Green Lake hold toward Ripon, and there were 8 planes within about 1-1.5 miles. Less than 1/4 mile spacing. In addition to those 8 in a row, we could see a few coming toward Ripon from the northwest, one off my left wing, two ahead of us, and God only knows what we couldn't see. All I know is, there was what I call a sh*t load of people at the same altitude, from all different directions, headed to the same spot. I was starting to pinch up some seat fabric. Just before Ripon, it became clear that there is no effing way we could all cram in there with any kind of acceptable spacing, so on my own accord, I bailed and went for a lap around scenic Green Lake. As my brother and I made a leisurely stoll around the lake, we gathered our thoughts, and listened to the Fisk controller. It was evident that every other yahoo out there decided they'd just point their noses toward Fisk and hope for the best. It did not work out. The controller was picking people out of line left and right, and sending them to the back of the line. At one point we heard the controller say "oh sh*t", then silence. That puckered my hind parts further. People were coming in side by side, too low, too high, to fast, too slow, no lights, transponders on, talking on frequency, asking controllers about the parking situation, etc. About 3/4 of the way around Green Lake, we all began to be entertained by a fellow with a stuck mic. We got to hear riveting conversation about tundra tires, among other things, but one thing we could no longer hear was the Fisk controller. As I made the turn north back toward Ripon, it appeared that everyone was a little more spread out, so we proceeded to pick up the tracks and headed to Fisk. It was still a struggle to hear the controller over the stuck mic guy, but we could hear a little better as we got closer to Fisk. It was evident that the controller was very taxed, and was irritated, but handling things wery well under the circumstances. As we got over Fisk, we could hear good enough to hear the controller ask for our wing rock, and I gave him a good solid rock. He had us speed up to 110 kts because we had a Cirrus trying to fly up our butt. The remainder of the approach was uneventful. We started our descent at midfield, kept it tight on base to final, and were cleared for the green dot......scratch that......kept it flying down to the orange dot, then off in the grass ASAP. The taxi was pretty quick and painless down to the west end of the North 40. We had arrived!

It was a dang madhouse, but we knew the Notam front to back, and had a plan if things didn't look right coming into Ripon. As a result, it all went smooth for us, albiet a little nerve racking. When I did it as a passenger in 2011, it was altogether different. It was straightforward and pleasant then, but you never know what your gonna get. I will say this, I will NEVER do that approach alone. A passenger with good eyes is extremely valuable. I could spot traffic, but with the low ceilings, I would easily lose them in the overcast when I glanced down at my instruments. The pax was able stay locked on. It was a nice challenge and the reward of hearing "Great job high wing, welcome to Oshkosh," is priceless.


P.S. I'm really sorry about the loooong post. It got a little out of hand.

 

[steingar]

You do have to be on your game at Oshkosh, there is no doubt about it. And you may have to do things you don't normally have to do. I didn't buy Mooney to fly at 100 knots, but I did it at Oshkosh. I don't normally spot land my aircraft halfway down the runway, but I do at Oshkosh. And don't get me started on taxiing in the grass.

If you're going to fly into Oshkosh you'd better know how to bloody well fly your airplane. If not, stay home. Make it safer for the rest of us.

And despite all this no midairs. Say what you want, but they have a pretty robust system.

 

[FlyingElvii]

http://m.aviationweek.com/business-aviation/unstable-approaches-rampant-sunday-airventure-arrivals

“I hope they have a post-mortem to figure out how they got into it,”

Well, that's pretty damn simple to figure out....
Two days of bad weather and low ceilings, and a couple of THOUSAND aircraft spread around 5 states waiting for the weather to break over the field at Oshkosh. (For instance, the ramp at Wisc Aviation in Madison seemed FULL Sunday Morning, Mooney's aside.) When it did, the rush was on, literally as soon as the TAF was updated... We sat at The Red Barn watching ForeFlight and Flightaware Sunday afternoon, watching HUNDREDS of targets appear within a very short time, all heading in the direction of Oshkosh. While the crash at the end of 36 probably still would have screwed things up, extending the curfew until Civil twilight might have helped to ease the pressure to get off and get in, some.

 

[Dave Theisen]

I read Martha's article. Until I read the byline, I assumed EdFred wrote it.

 

[KFD]

I agree with others that the article was silly. I was one of those rushing in (after flying for hours) as soon as the ceilings lifted to VFR on Sunday morning. The issue was at Ripon getting into line. Once you're in line, it is business as usual. The actual approach to the runway was busy but typical of Sunday at Oshkosh.

 

[3 in the green]

Okay. Just read the Flying article. I used to like Martha's articles on the rare occasion that I actually pick up a Flying magazine. However, after reading that article, all I can say is, "What a *****!"

Took the words out of my mouth. Unbelievable. Who treats people with such unearned disrespect, and then you actually admit it as if it's a badge of honor?

 

[OkieFlyer]

If I was a Flying Magazine exec., I'd tell this chick to kick rocks, on the basis of her being a sorry excuse for a human being. Who treats people that way? Particularly someone volunteering their time to help make the show happen. She should be ashamed of herself, but something tells me she's way too self absorbed to realize her faults. Besides that, it just seems like a dumb move for an aviation writer to blast the premier aviation gathering, in an aviation magazine, read by aviators. If you have some issues with how it's run, fine, let her rip, but she showed her arse on this one.

 

[Cajun_Flyer]

If you have some issues with how it's run, fine, let her rip, but she showed her arse on this one.

See, that's my take as well. I wouldn't have a problem with the article if, 1, she wasn't a terrible person and, 2, if her issues with OSH were about anything other than her personal preferences. If her complaints were about the way the event is run or legitimate problems she ran into (like stuck mics!), that's worthy of an article. But what she wrote was basically an article on her superiority complex.

 

[mscard88]

I'm happy to co-pilot for anyone flying from New England next year Same offer as @FloridaPilot ! (as long as you like cheap drinks...)

So you drink Old Style?

 

[OkieFlyer]

I'm happy to co-pilot for anyone flying from New England next year Same offer as @FloridaPilot ! (as long as you like cheap drinks...)

Cajun_Flyer and h̶i̶s̶ her chauffeur at Oshkosh 2017