Flying IFR without autopilot?

I finished my IFR in AUgust. I trained in a T182T with a G1000 and fully functional autopilot. I did all my training in the plane, as it is my own plane and was cheaper to fly it than to use a sim. I did 95% of my IFR training sans autopilot, my reasoning being that if the autopilot failed I wanted to know I could hand fly it. However, when I did my checkout my DPE had me use the autopilot for almost 90% of the flying. So make sure you know the ins and outs of the autopilot before your checkride. Personally, I find hand flying the plane more fun and interesting, and so still do most of my flying without the autopilot.

Doug
 
BTW, speaking as one whose main line of work is training people for their IR in 10 days, the easiest gig I have is a client with a really simple plane like a C-152/172 with two nav/comms and nothing else. Give me someone with a complex plane and a G1000 cockpit with every bell and whistle Garmin and L3 make (worse yet, a twin with all that), and it's a nightmare because there is so much more they have to learn before they take the ride.
 
Getting too used to them and not being able to fly without them is the real foolishness. Stuff fails...

As has already been mentioned, in response to this reply..............just use some extra backups, and chances are extremely high, that you won't have a complete failure. Since the beginning of IMC flight, there are far too many examples of "Captain Courageous", who has ended up plastered on the side of a hill some where. Even level ground, as far as that goes.

We're in a new era here. We don't have to continue flying without the "complete picture". There is no problem at all, getting too use to them. They should be used for every cross country, and especially in honest IMC conditions. And all that stuff about leaving your GPS home for a cross country or two, every once and a while is pure nonsense. What do you gain? Absolutely nothing!

We now the technology to avoid IMC/CFIT. Let's use it, and get past all this "pilot skill" macho business.

L.Adamson
 
BTW, speaking as one whose main line of work is training people for their IR in 10 days, the easiest gig I have is a client with a really simple plane like a C-152/172 with two nav/comms and nothing else. Give me someone with a complex plane and a G1000 cockpit with every bell and whistle Garmin and L3 make (worse yet, a twin with all that), and it's a nightmare because there is so much more they have to learn before they take the ride.

In other words, the real "Pilot Skills", which our children will probably easily adapt to..............will be that G1000 cockpit, kind of stuff.. :D

As to myself, just texting is bad enough...

L.Adamson
 
I just got my PPL now I am practicing IFR on Vatsim with FS9. I could not imagine flying in IFR in IMC conditions without an autopilot to help me. There just seems like too much going on. How would I talk to ATC, intercept a LOC, turn, and descend all at the same time? Does this get any easier when I actually start instrument training?

Several things make it easier than you've been experiencing. One is that most airplanes are far more stable than most simulators, and while useless for long term stability, your audible and kinesthetic senses make flying on instruments in an airplane easier than in a simulator, especially those without realistic motion.

Another is that at some point in the training, flying by reference to instruments gets to be almost second nature requiring far less mental involvement that is required initially. Much like the way riding a bicycle or skiing downhill becomes far easier after some experience is gained.

Finally, once you become accustomed to breaking complex tasks (e.g. programming a GPS) into very small steps that can be incorporated into your instrument scan, performing other tasks besides manipulating the flight controls gets easier as well.
 
I've found that with S-tech equipped Bo's -- if turbulence develops in the IMC I just kick the autopilot off and hand fly. The S-techs just do such a poor job of flying smoothy in turbulence...It drives me crazy to watch.

I hope the Aspen's are better in that regard.

You are so right, Jesse; the S-Tec is a wandering willy in rough air. The De I used to fly (the one that was flown into the mountain in Colorado) has a Century 2000, which was delightful by comparison.

By the same token, the rate-based S-Tec is not at all dependent upon the AI, so it's like a little extra redundancy.

The Aspen connection is (for time being) the ability to provide adhrs data to the new Avidyne autopilot, which is certificated for Cirrus and 182, and getting close on Bonanza. Sounds like a real winner, from what I have read.
 
I just got my PPL now I am practicing IFR on Vatsim with FS9. I could not imagine flying in IFR in IMC conditions without an autopilot to help me. There just seems like too much going on. How would I talk to ATC, intercept a LOC, turn, and descend all at the same time? Does this get any easier when I actually start instrument training?
There IS a lot going on, that's why the IR has the reputation for being difficult. Goodness knows it's not the controlling the airplane with reference to instruments part, which is relatively easy to learn how to do, though like so many things aviation it's a perishable skill. (Always seems to come back though, like riding a bicycle.)

Keep in mind I don't have my rating yet, so cannot speak with any authority. But my (limited) experience has been that the two most important abilities to develop are 1) how to divide one's attention, i.e. multitask, and 2) how to prioritize. My feeling is that the first is innate, either you have the ability or you don't, though it gets easier as you gain facility with the individual tasks. Being well rested and going in with a clear mind can make a big difference as well. The second, prioritizing is no different than when flying visually: aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order. I've lost my fear of telling ATC to "stand by" when I need to. Lord knows they say it to me often enough.

In short, as has been said, it gets easier with experience... find a good CFII if you don't already have one, and stick with it. With luck (yours, not mine) you'll get your rating before I do. :redface:
 
As has already been mentioned, in response to this reply..............just use some extra backups, and chances are extremely high, that you won't have a complete failure. Since the beginning of IMC flight, there are far too many examples of "Captain Courageous", who has ended up plastered on the side of a hill some where. Even level ground, as far as that goes.

We're in a new era here. We don't have to continue flying without the "complete picture". There is no problem at all, getting too use to them. They should be used for every cross country, and especially in honest IMC conditions. And all that stuff about leaving your GPS home for a cross country or two, every once and a while is pure nonsense. What do you gain? Absolutely nothing!

We now the technology to avoid IMC/CFIT. Let's use it, and get past all this "pilot skill" macho business.

L.Adamson
Hmmm... Tell Al Haynes about how all this redundancy does away with the need to learn all this "pilot skill" macho business. It's impossible for all the control surfaces on the DC-10 to be inoperative at the same time, we have redundant systems! Except when you suddenly don't, because of some unforeseen circumstance.

BTW, hoping to go see him speak at the NAFI dinner at the Kalamazoo (MI) Air Zoo East Campus this Saturday, 12/8. http://www.nafinet.org/teamwork.aspx
Anyone who wants to come, just use the code "NAFIMember" for 2/3 off. You needn't be a member to use the code!
 
i dont get why people complain about pilots getting to used to technology.so sixty years ago the old school aviators of that time were bitching because people were getting to used to fly with gyros, adfs, amd then vor, the high tech of that era? I can imagine an old old schooler saying "forget about it i aint flying with this fancy adf today. it can fail, i rather scud run and use pilotage necause thats what i always have done". the more you know and take advantage of the technology available the better the odds to have a more enjoyable and safe flight, even more so if you are the doctor killer pilot type with all your family aboard.
 
PS: I trained for and received my IR in an aircraft that did NOT have an AP. If your CFI-IA is any good, you will regard the AP as an assistant; not as a requirement.

Exactly. To the OP, you will learn to do all of this without an AP; however, if the plane in which you fly your check ride has one, you will need to be able to demonstrate its use, and probably shoot an approach with it.

As Ben said, the AP is an assistant. Its best use, IMO, is when you are trying to find an approach plate when ATC throws you a curve, brief that approach, load frequencies, etc.

On my check ride, I had to use the AP for the last approach, which was a VOR-A approach. The AP had some problems: it wouldn't work in APP, and didn't like making left turns, so I had to disengage it to perform the procedure turn. Finally, the examiner shook his head in disgust with this equipment, and just told me to hand-fly it.
 
You might enjoy riding along in a sim session to see how the training is administered by the 142 schools. Pilots are required to shoot both coupled and hand-flown approaches and missed approaches, as well as normal maneuvering and navigation chores with and without the AP.

IOW, the man wants to know if you understand how to properly use the autopilot and that you can fly without it if it breaks.

Yep. Seen it. We're you thinking I hadn't, or just agreeing?

Seemed like a lot of people in this thread were saying they wanted an AP or they wouldn't go. APs can and do fail in flight, so they'd better know how to do the deed without the thing at any time.

AP is a luxury. Knowing how to hand-fly it, is a requirement.
 
On my check ride, I had to use the AP for the last approach, which was a VOR-A approach. The AP had some problems: it wouldn't work in APP, and didn't like making left turns, so I had to disengage it to perform the procedure turn. Finally, the examiner shook his head in disgust with this equipment, and just told me to hand-fly it.
I expect something like that may happen to me. My AP will intercept a course really well when it's getting its signals from the GPS, not so well in heading mode, and very poorly in NAV mode. The other night I tried using it to intercept a localizer for an ILS. It blew through the LOC and did this weak, anemic turn back that was so slow I had to disengage it to intercept by hand. Once it's established though, it's rock solid and will intercept a GS without any trouble. It just isn't very aggressive at turning in HDG mode and in NAV mode.
 
I think the luxury vs. requirement argument runs deeper than the "you'd better know how to do it by hand" mentality that is currently being displayed.

If the IMC venture is for an hour or so of practice or regaining currency, the AP is perhaps less important than polishing hand-flying skills, but only if the pilot knows how to operate the equipment when necessary.

Insofar as trips of any length are concerned, I consider the AP (or second pilot) as an absolute requirement, simply due to fatigue and ability to manage the airplane and other issues without the necessity of hand-flying every mile and every minute.

I think of the JFK Jr. accident scenario as the classic example of such failure. Although it's unclear exactly how it developed, I've seen that same pattern develop repeatedly for 40 years, along with the followup question "why didn't he just engage heading and altitude?"

When I read the "autopilots can break" rationalization, I know for a fact that the reason they are so often inop or impaired is because they are (or can be) difficult and expensive to maintain and owners simply won't spend the money to find the right shop to fix them properly. Pilots in the part of the country know that Autopilots Central can repair and maintain almost any GA box, so the first question asked about balky AP's is "have you talked to Ferguson about it?"

Being able to properly set up the GPS for coupled AP approaches is one of the most important functions for single-pilot IFR, and I can count on one or two fingers the number of times that pilots have been able to do so (the first time) during FR's.

In short, I've been watching this mess from all of the seats (left, right and instructor panel) for more years than I care to think about and am convinced that we aren't there yet in terms of providing the training necessary to solve the problem.


Yep. Seen it. We're you thinking I hadn't, or just agreeing?

Seemed like a lot of people in this thread were saying they wanted an AP or they wouldn't go. APs can and do fail in flight, so they'd better know how to do the deed without the thing at any time.

AP is a luxury. Knowing how to hand-fly it, is a requirement.
 
Being able to properly set up the GPS for coupled AP approaches is one of the most important functions for single-pilot IFR, and I can count on one or two fingers the number of times that pilots have been able to do so (the first time) during FR's.

I have never flown with an autopilot that could couple with anything, so take this with a grain of salt.

But, I think the most valuable function of autopilot, is to fly the plane during those en-route hours and keeping the pilot's fatigue down. And then, flying the plane while briefing the approach, keeping the plane on course while setting radios, getting the weather and reviewing the plate and minimums.

Those are the times when I feel I am most task-saturated. Once the needle begins to come in, you are home free. Just got to fly those needles down to XX altitude. ATC has usually handed you off to tower or CTAF prior to that point, so your radio work is at a minimum.
 
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When I read the "autopilots can break" rationalization, I know for a fact that the reason they are so often inop or impaired is because they are (or can be) difficult and expensive to maintain and owners simply won't spend the money to find the right shop to fix them properly. Pilots in the part of the country know that Autopilots Central can repair and maintain almost any GA box, so the first question asked about balky AP's is "have you talked to Ferguson about it?"

Being able to properly set up the GPS for coupled AP approaches is one of the most important functions for single-pilot IFR, and I can count on one or two fingers the number of times that pilots have been able to do so (the first time) during FR's.

In short, I've been watching this mess from all of the seats (left, right and instructor panel) for more years than I care to think about and am convinced that we aren't there yet in terms of providing the training necessary to solve the problem.

Ours is busted because even in tip-top shape, it's a POS. Doesn't even have a heading bug. I've spent a bit of time figuring out how it behaves and about all it's good for is asking for a vector and a climb and setting it to hold something like a 10 degree wide general heading and get your bearings if you were seriously impaired. For that role, I'd use it in a horrible pinch. Frankly, trimmed... The airplane does as well or better on its own, left to its own devices.

We've spent a little money on it to get it to that point, but even if it were flawless as it came from the factory, it'd still only be good enough to do that. I let it attempt to intercept a Localizer once, and repeated that just to prove it really was as awful as it was the first time and decided it would do an excellent job of killing everyone on board.

I've also played with it in cruise. It'll keep the airplane upright. Barely. Long enough to use it when reaching for something in the back. It can lower workload so you can maybe prep for an approach but I won't use it down low in the weeds.

I think we could take it to a place like you recommend and it'd go from "dangerous" to "flies like a drunken sailor".

I can't imagine anyone ever used a Cessna 200 to really fly hard IMC for hours on end. They're just not good enough at doing what they were intended to do. None that I've ever seen operable, anyway. Cessna 300 is better with a heading bug, at least if there's vacuum and no DG problems, it'll hold a heading.

Your comments about folks not knowing how to use their tools when they have a good one, is VERY well received here. I can't imagine not knowing how to use the tools at hand. That drives me batty. If ours were useful, I'd be using it, but I'd do a lot of practice with it both operable and in-op.

As far as the long trips go... One has to know their limitations. Multiple hours in IMC hand-flying is fatiguing and knowing when to land and stop is as important as knowing what the airplane can do. None of my trips are "must get there" trips for that very reason. I'd have to feel like today was a tip-top day to file and fly a multi-hour IMC flight with no breaks anywhere along the way in my bird.

My airplane is capable of IFR. Sometimes the pilot isn't. The pilot is a go/no-go item too, just like the airplane. If the pilot ain't up to the task TODAY, relying on an AP to fix that, is just asking for trouble. It frees up brain cells to get the pilot back up to "if everything is going right we will survive this" level, and paints a trap for when it craps out and the pilot isn't ready or able to be the pilot. :(
 
There is a big difference between the standard piston autopilot and the standard turbine autopilot. KFC300s and M4s are beautiful machines that can part the Red Sea, if commanded to do so. Century IIIs and Cessna 400s aren't bad, KFC150s are decent, and then it goes downhill. S-Tecs are good, depending on which one you go with.

I've flown 2,000 hours or so, about 1,600 of which I've had an autopilot that I had some level of distrust for, only 50 of which I've trusted the autopilot enough that I'd actually let it shoot an approach for me. So, I'm in the camp of agreeing that its best use is for en-route, but I do think that, if you have a good one, there's a lot of benefit overall for SPIFR.
 
APs can and do go wonky on you. It is, IMHO, preferential to have an operating AP on every IFR flight, but absolutely not a non-starter if the AP is INOP.
One thing is for certain - if you fly alot of rentals, you will find that the A/P is the most commonly owner-deferred maintenance item.
 
You are so right, Jesse; the S-Tec is a wandering willy in rough air. The De I used to fly (the one that was flown into the mountain in Colorado) has a Century 2000, which was delightful by comparison.

By the same token, the rate-based S-Tec is not at all dependent upon the AI, so it's like a little extra redundancy.

The Aspen connection is (for time being) the ability to provide adhrs data to the new Avidyne autopilot, which is certificated for Cirrus and 182, and getting close on Bonanza. Sounds like a real winner, from what I have read.
For some reason I was thinking it was Aspen making the new autopilot when it's Avidyne. Yeah, a working Century, does fly really damn nice.
 
It will come with time, as others have said. I know that I am not alone in having flown hundreds of hours of actual without an autopilot.

One caution, though: The first five hours or so of instrument training should be devoted solely to control of the aircraft by instrument reference....forget about navigating and shooting approaches, just get "the numbers" for your plane and practice until you can change speed without changing heading or altitude, transition from cruise to a climb or descent without changing airspeed, etc. It is only after control of the airplane becomes second nature that you can begin to add the avionics.

Bob Gardner
+1000, with one caveat.

My first "IFR intro" was a demo of a short IFR X/C, and included an ILS approach, with the CFII managing the power settings for the various phases and me doing the flight controls. I'd already learned the pitch/power/performance relationship well during primary training, as well as the value of trim. It was a short flight, and it "sold" me on the utility of the rating, as well as giving me a very good "before" picture. The next five lessons were all about the four fundamentals by instrument reference.
 
I think the luxury vs. requirement argument runs deeper than the "you'd better know how to do it by hand" mentality that is currently being displayed.

If the IMC venture is for an hour or so of practice or regaining currency, the AP is perhaps less important than polishing hand-flying skills, but only if the pilot knows how to operate the equipment when necessary.

Insofar as trips of any length are concerned, I consider the AP (or second pilot) as an absolute requirement, simply due to fatigue and ability to manage the airplane and other issues without the necessity of hand-flying every mile and every minute.

I think of the JFK Jr. accident scenario as the classic example of such failure. Although it's unclear exactly how it developed, I've seen that same pattern develop repeatedly for 40 years, along with the followup question "why didn't he just engage heading and altitude?"

When I read the "autopilots can break" rationalization, I know for a fact that the reason they are so often inop or impaired is because they are (or can be) difficult and expensive to maintain and owners simply won't spend the money to find the right shop to fix them properly. Pilots in the part of the country know that Autopilots Central can repair and maintain almost any GA box, so the first question asked about balky AP's is "have you talked to Ferguson about it?"

Being able to properly set up the GPS for coupled AP approaches is one of the most important functions for single-pilot IFR, and I can count on one or two fingers the number of times that pilots have been able to do so (the first time) during FR's.

In short, I've been watching this mess from all of the seats (left, right and instructor panel) for more years than I care to think about and am convinced that we aren't there yet in terms of providing the training necessary to solve the problem.

I find myself in strong agreement. I will fly IMC without an autopilot. I won't take my family on a trip without one though. I find it a strong positive safety feature, for all the reasons Wayne states.

I don't think it's an either/or. Yes, you absolutely have to be able to fly in IMC by hand. Yes, you absolutely should know how to use the autopilot AND SHOULD USE THE AUTOPILOT when flying IFR trips for real instead of for proficiency. And you should know how to use all of the features, and know which modes offer the most value.

Garmin and Cessna/Mooney/Beech/Diamond all build their training as if a normal trip has the flight director going on at takeoff, and the autopilot going on and staying on until the missed approach point. Once a pilot is proficient at hand flying under IFR, they need to become proficient at flight management under IFR while telling Otto what to do and checking to be sure he does it correctly.

Caveat - if you have a poorly maintained autopilot, you'd probably be safer having it deactivated and placarded. If you don't know now to program and supervise the autopilot, you will be safer having it deactivated and placarded.
 
I have the G1000 with the GC700 autopilot. The autopilot works fine and has taken me down to minimums in training and practice a number of times. I have never used it in real approaches by myself, because I like to fly the approach by hand. Am I comfortable using it? Yes. Does it always work? Usually and when it screws up I know immediately and am prepared always to handfly. Do I know how to hand fly and do it compentently? Yes. Am I comfortable switching from autopilot to hand flying and back to autopilot? Yes. For me if I cannot do any of this then I need more training and should avoid IMC flying.

Doug
 
One thing is for certain - if you fly alot of rentals, you will find that the A/P is the most commonly owner-deferred maintenance item.

Ding, ding ding. Exactly. Those of us sentenced to rent have been putting up with POS equipment most of our flying lives. Last I saw, the 172R bucket of bolts that I flew my IR checkride in two years ago has a gaping wound in the panel where the A/P used to be. :mad:
 
I have the G1000 with the GC700 autopilot. The autopilot works fine and has taken me down to minimums in training and practice a number of times. I have never used it in real approaches by myself, because I like to fly the approach by hand. Am I comfortable using it? Yes. Does it always work? Usually and when it screws up I know immediately and am prepared always to handfly. Do I know how to hand fly and do it compentently? Yes. Am I comfortable switching from autopilot to hand flying and back to autopilot? Yes. For me if I cannot do any of this then I need more training and should avoid IMC flying.

Doug

I'd switch legs with the autopilot on X/Cs sometimes. In the Mooney in reasonably smooth air I could fly in cruise with rudder pressure and trim alone. And I'd usually hand fly approaches when solo, and let Otto fly most of the approach when passengers were on board.
 
I use the AP in the KA and did in the 58P a lot on trips. When departing or arriving in class B airspace when in challenging instrument conditions, the AP was engaged. I didn't want to bust a vector heading or altitude, miss traffic on TIS or SKYWATCH, needed to get the approach set up, get ATIS and in many cases was vectored around until put on the approach. I hand fly a lot in between. Enroute, on the three to four hour trips I take, I hand fly for a period every hour or so. It's pretty boring in the flight levels, but gives me a feel for the plane. At some point in the approach, I will either take the AP out of approach mode and fly heading and pitch only or just kick it off.
I think the more complex the plane, the more one needs to become a manager instead of trying to hand fly everything when a lot can change in busy airspace. I can and do hand fly approaches often to practice and don't have any issues, but if I miss something in Class B with a lot of traffic around the consequences can be pretty grim; so, AP on most of the time in the B if IMC and busy. If not, I hand fly there some, but put the AP on in the climb at some point.
If I have a co-pilot, I hand fly more in the busier airspace with him or her checking and calling off headings and altitudes as I near them.
I think it's very important to know exactly how to use the AP including on an approach if you have one and it's working, especially in a faster, more complex aircraft. I've found in the KA, when approach/departure tells you to do something, they expect it to be done quickly and properly. They have higher expectations than they did of me in the 58P. The plane is faster and climbs at a higher rate. If you're off a bit, it can add up pretty quickly.

Best,

Dave
 
+1000, with one caveat.

My first "IFR intro" was a demo of a short IFR X/C, and included an ILS approach, with the CFII managing the power settings for the various phases and me doing the flight controls. I'd already learned the pitch/power/performance relationship well during primary training, as well as the value of trim. It was a short flight, and it "sold" me on the utility of the rating, as well as giving me a very good "before" picture. The next five lessons were all about the four fundamentals by instrument reference.

Every one of those hours devoted to learning "the numbers" ends with an approach of some kind. Kind of dipping your toe in the water.

Bob
 
I just got my PPL now I am practicing IFR on Vatsim with FS9. I could not imagine flying in IFR in IMC conditions without an autopilot to help me. There just seems like too much going on. How would I talk to ATC, intercept a LOC, turn, and descend all at the same time? Does this get any easier when I actually start instrument training?

I fly the majority of IMC with the AP engaged. Why not? It does a better then job then I, is more accurate and reduces workload. Granted, The STEC 55X coupled to the 530W and Sandel make IFR flying pretty easy. Depending on the approaches, I may hand fly or leave it coupled. It's
a personal choice and decide what best works for you. YMMV!
 
You might enjoy riding along in a sim session to see how the training is administered by the 142 schools. Pilots are required to shoot both coupled and hand-flown approaches and missed approaches, as well as normal maneuvering and navigation chores with and without the AP.

IOW, the man wants to know if you understand how to properly use the autopilot and that you can fly without it if it breaks.
Having taken my 135 checkride yesterday, this is what we did. The scenario was in Memphis and it was C-680 sim.

Takeoff 18C
Intercept a radial
Steep turns
Stalls
Unusual attitudes
LOC 27 circle to 1R
Takeoff 1R 500 RVR - V1 cut
Single-engine ILS 18R hand flown to 1800 RVR landing
Takeoff 36L - aborted takeoff
Coupled ILS 18R to balked landing
RNAV (GPS) 9 hand flown to missed approach, engine failure on the missed
Starter assisted restart
Visual approach, no-flap landing

There were two coupled approaches, one being a circle, and two hand-flown approaches. It also occurs to me that if you are clumsy or not good at hand-flying that you could easily botch the V1 cut or the engine failure during the missed approach. There is also the fact that sims are always harder to hand-fly than the real airplane.
 
It also occurs to me that if you are clumsy or not good at hand-flying that you could easily botch the V1 cut or the engine failure during the missed approach. There is also the fact that sims are always harder to hand-fly than the real airplane.

I think this is the biggest argument for some level of hand flying beyond 500 ft hit the autopilot, and then decouple when 500 AGL. Doing well in situations like that requires that you have a good feel for the airplane, as well as knowing what to do.
 
Hmmm... Tell Al Haynes about how all this redundancy does away with the need to learn all this "pilot skill" macho business. It's impossible for all the control surfaces on the DC-10 to be inoperative at the same time, we have redundant systems! Except when you suddenly don't, because of some unforeseen circumstance.

Just to clarify, that's not the type of skills I was referring too. Just a few years ago, I was told by some CFI, that if I wasn't tuning my OBSs before every cross country, ......that I wouldn't be retaining my basic skills, and had no right to fly.

My RV has no nav/comms, I fly mostly mountains where line of sight VORs don't do well, but use a very good moving map GPS with satellite weather, fuel monitoring, etc. Bascially, I usually don't fly airways, and don't have a desire to be sticking my head in the cockpit to triangulate positions from VORs. I prefer to watch for other aircraft and birds. IMO.....the **** with his thoughts.

L.Adamson
 
I think this is the biggest argument for some level of hand flying beyond 500 ft hit the autopilot, and then decouple when 500 AGL. Doing well in situations like that requires that you have a good feel for the airplane, as well as knowing what to do.
Personally, I've never flown with anyone who routinely engaged the autopilot right after takeoff. After all, why do we become pilots anyway? Almost everyone has been decent at hand flying, at least once they got used to the particular airplane. Granted, I've only flown in a crew with a fairly small subset of pilots but they have come from widely different backgrounds.
 
Personally, I've never flown with anyone who routinely engaged the autopilot right after takeoff.
I have only seen it once....it was a couple of Navy LTs flying a C-12/BE-200. They would engage the A/P over the runway at 200'AGL and didn't take it off until short final almost time to flare.




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Personally, I've never flown with anyone who routinely engaged the autopilot right after takeoff. After all, why do we become pilots anyway? Almost everyone has been decent at hand flying, at least once they got used to the particular airplane. Granted, I've only flown in a crew with a fairly small subset of pilots but they have come from widely different backgrounds.

Boy howdy I have, I know guys that are 'Positive rate, gear up, autopilot on' before the end of the runway.
 
No autopilot!?

oh-the-huge-manatee.jpg
 
There was a 55 captain that I no longer fly with (because he is no longer with the company) that used to fly with the autopilot from 1000 feet, to 200 feet (which is the altitude limitations of the system on the Lear 55). He was such a crappy pilot. I hand fly almost every approach in the Lear. Sometimes I will let the autopilot do it so I make sure I can press the right buttons.

Hell, most of my instrument flying is single pilot, no autopilot, /A in a Beech 99 flying at 180kts in the worst weather possible.
 
PS: I trained for and received my IR in an aircraft that did NOT have an AP. If your CFI-IA is any good, you will regard the AP as an assistant; not as a requirement.

It is a requirement to demonstrate use of an operational autopilot on a checkride. Hell when you get into bigger equipment, demonstrating coupled approaches become a requirement.
 
Personally, I've never flown with anyone who routinely engaged the autopilot right after takeoff. After all, why do we become pilots anyway? Almost everyone has been decent at hand flying, at least once they got used to the particular airplane. Granted, I've only flown in a crew with a fairly small subset of pilots but they have come from widely different backgrounds.

Back at my brief 135 stint, that was pretty much what they did and encouraged. It was very much the mentality of "No reason to hand fly, the AP does it better and the passengers don't want you to. Oh and recover from a stall by just adding power and keep holding that nose up."

Their brainwashing worked so well that the boss (who I never would have expected this from) even drank the Kool-Aid, and would yell at me for not engaging the AP in the Commander or Cheyenne before 500'. "This aint a piston!" "Yeah, that's right, and I have low time flying it so I want to get a feel for how it flies."

Then there was the local Cirrus fanboy who did the same. His hand flying was predictably scary the few times I flew with him.
 
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