Flying Gliders as a Schizo

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So just to be upfront I am officially diagnosed as a schizo. I know this means I am ineligible for any type of medical certificate but is it true you do not need a medical to fly gliders? I still want to fly and it sounds to me like regular gliders or motor gliders do not require a medical. Can someone verify this for me? I would love to get myself a motor glider and just roam the skies because it is what I enjoy doing. Are there any hoops I have to jump through?
 
you do not need a medical certificate to fly a glider or motorglider. you do still need to comply with 61.53(b)
 
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. What does your shrink think of the idea?
 
Also consider powered ultralights because even Part 61 does not apply to Part 103 operations. You can be crazy as the proverbial loon and be legal within the scope of the FAA regulations, so long as you fly within the 103 regs.
 
tonycondon said:
you do not need a medical certificate to fly a glider or motorglider. you do still need to comply with 61.53(b)
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In case the poster is unfamiliar with that regulatory reference, here's what it says:
(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in Sec. 61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.
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Since you have said you know you're schizophrenic, and that schizophrenia is disqualifying, you cannot argue that you do not know you have a condition which creates doubt as to your ability to operate an aircraft in a safe manner. The Federal Air Surgeon has issued guidance for situations such as yours, and it is in line with what James suggested above -- you must consult your treating physician to make that determination.

That said, while I am not an MD, as an experienced pilot and flight instructor, I do find it difficult to imagine that an unmedicated schizophrenic would be able to safely act as PIC of an aircraft -- too much chance of hallucinations or aberrant behavior interfering with such duties. Further, my layman's knowledge of the meds for schizophrenia suggests that the side effects of those drugs (such as muscle spasms, tremors, muscle rigidity, dizziness, drowsiness, and anxiety) would render one equally unsafe to act as PIC of an aircraft. So, talk it over with your treating physician, but you should not be optimistic about what s/he will say.
 
Unregistered responder said:
Also consider powered ultralights because even Part 61 does not apply to Part 103 operations. You can be crazy as the proverbial loon and be legal within the scope of the FAA regulations, so long as you fly within the 103 regs.
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...which might be difficult.
Sec. 103.9

Hazardous operations.

(a) No person may operate any ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons or property.
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I find it very easy to believe the FAA would argue that the operation of an ultralight vehicle by a diagnosed schizophrenic would inherently constitute "a hazard to other persons or property" unless those operations were confined to remote areas with no persons and nothing of value below.
 
A tricky situation indeed. The stigma is well and alive I can see. Sure sometimes I talk to animals but you know what native americans talk to animals and they don't get called schizos. Perhaps as long as I have a CFI with me that will be good, as long as I don't tell him I am schizo, the stigma is far too great. The biggest mistake was talking to a doctor. Had I not maybe I wouldn't be in this tricky situation
 
Unregistered said:
A tricky situation indeed. The stigma is well and alive I can see. Sure sometimes I talk to animals but you know what native americans talk to animals and they don't get called schizos. Perhaps as long as I have a CFI with me that will be good, as long as I don't tell him I am schizo, the stigma is far too great. The biggest mistake was talking to a doctor. Had I not maybe I wouldn't be in this tricky situation
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While it is always regrettable when someone cannot achieve what they wish to achieve, considering what seems to happen to most untreated schizophrenics, I think your situation would most likely be a lot worse if you had not taken your problem to a medical professional.
 
So it sounds like I need to talk to my shrink to see what he thinks. I am afraid the answer will not be good. Sounds like I will need to have an instructor with me if I can find one that will accept me. Not a fun situation I always enjoyed going on plane rides with my uncle.
 
Unregistered said:
So it sounds like I need to talk to my shrink to see what he thinks.
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I think that's the appropriate path to take.

I am afraid the answer will not be good. Sounds like I will need to have an instructor with me if I can find one that will accept me. Not a fun situation I always enjoyed going on plane rides with my uncle.
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Just don't conceal the situation from your instructor -- the instructor/student relationship requires trust both ways.
 
Unregistered said:
A tricky situation indeed. The stigma is well and alive I can see. Sure sometimes I talk to animals but you know what native americans talk to animals and they don't get called schizos. Perhaps as long as I have a CFI with me that will be good, as long as I don't tell him I am schizo, the stigma is far too great. The biggest mistake was talking to a doctor. Had I not maybe I wouldn't be in this tricky situation
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Well, geez, I talk to animals, too. I do it all the time, in fact. Deer, skunks, a fox that thinks it's a dog and comes around for handouts, and a weasel living under my porch, among others. I have some of my most productive discussions with wild animals -- and I'm not Native American (nor even "schizo," for that matter).

Which brings me to my question: With which "schizo" have you been diagnosed? Schizophrenia? Schizophreniform disorder? Schizoid personality disorder? Schizotypal Personality disorder? Schizoaffective disorder? Schizo-something-else disorder? There are many "schizo" disorders with very different symptoms and treatments, and there are also varying degrees to which any person may be affected.

None of this affects medical eligibility because I'm pretty sure that any current diagnosis with "schizo" in it will be non-certifiable in FAA's view, no matter how many hoops you jump through. I could be wrong, of course -- it's happened once or twice -- so you may want to get in touch with Dr. Bruce Chien if you want an opinion from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. But I wouldn't get my hopes up. I really can't see FAA certifying you while you have an active diagnosis of schizo-anything.

Your specific condition, severity, and degree of control may, however, make a difference from a practical point of view (as in keeping open the possibility of gliders, ultralights, or possibly SP) if your condition is mild enough / well-enough controlled to make you safe, even if not certifiable.

So really, it all gets down to talking it over with your shrink, as others have said.

Rich
 
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Two things:

Yeah, it sucks. But getting the diagnosis probably did you more good than you think.

And there's nothing wrong with flying with a CFI. Some of them are actually decent people.
 
Unregistered said:
A tricky situation indeed. The stigma is well and alive I can see. Sure sometimes I talk to animals but you know what native americans talk to animals and they don't get called schizos.
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Do the animals talk back to you?
 
This is what today's schizo's are flying:

http://culverprops.com/back-yard-ul.php

hints: get the trike version; fly > 500 and < 3500 feet above the ground(unless takeoff or landing); be polite to people on the ground; and learn some slow flight and stall recovery in a Cessna 150 with an instructor.

Enjoy, stop asking specific questions here, and live long and prosper.
 
Honestly it is schizoaffective disorder, which in itself has a better outlook than schizophrenia. Don't worry I already know it is not certifiable. I take too many medications to hold a medical and won't bother even wasting my time applying for one. It sounds like I will always need someone to act as PIC besides myself. I just want to enjoy being up in the air. It would be nice to be able to take people in the air however it doesn't sound possible. I have struggled with this since my mid 20s and it just got worse. My biggest goal is to actually fly solo but that may not be possible from what I hear.
 
My Sister was a diagnosed schizophrenic and based on my experiences with her, I would say piloting an aircraft while having a psychotic break or even while medically controlled could be catastrophic.

I would not recommend it. :nonod:
 
When ever I talk to my chickens they only complain about how overworked they are. "you want and egg every day, blah blah blah" it's incessant.

OP your last post makes me suspect a trolling thread. Having said that I completely agree hop in an ultralight fly where there are not a bunch of people and things to run into and frankly I am not sure many care what you do.
 
Now let's say you are diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. Assuming that this in itself isn't a disqualifying condition, does each personality have to go through a separate medical and flight certification process?
 
Sac Arrow said:
Now let's say you are diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. Assuming that this in itself isn't a disqualifying condition, does each personality have to go through a separate medical and flight certification process?
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Which one would be PIC?
 
Everskyward said:
Why are you hiding behind "unregistered"?
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Why are YOU questioning anyone's desire for anonymity?

Who died and made you Jesus?

Are you someone special?

Do you have something to hide?

Give us your keys, and let us all sift through your personal life right now.

:rolleyes2:
 
docmirror said:
Why are YOU questioning anyone's desire for anonymity?



Who died and made you Jesus?



Are you someone special?



Do you have something to hide?



Give us your keys, and let us all sift through your personal life right now.



:rolleyes2:
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It's cowardly to hide behind the unregistered feature when blasting someone else or writing things you might not under your own screen name, and personal attacks are against the ROC whether they are anonymous or not.
 
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docmirror said:
Why are YOU questioning anyone's desire for anonymity?

Who died and made you Jesus?

Are you someone special?

Do you have something to hide?

Give us your keys, and let us all sift through your personal life right now.

:rolleyes2:
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When the anon posts take personal shots at other users or otherwise abuse the forum, they don't belong here. The MC - and Mari is a member - take a dim view of using anon as a launching board for attacks.

The post in question was abusive and has been deleted.
 
Everskyward said:
It's cowardly to hide behind the unregistered feature when blasting someone else or writing things you might not under your own screen name, and personal attacks are against the ROC whether they are anonymous or not.
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So if I were to take the same tack WRT the prev advice offered, it would be ok? I mean, just because someone posts as anon, that doesn't invalidate their POV. Also, the post didn't commit a personal attack, as I recall the post, it was spot on point to the question of the OP, and one of the replies which I thought was also incorrect. Further, the person mentioned in the post has every opportunity to come back and defend their(wrong) POV.

This is a sad state of affairs. I guess to the OP; you get what you pay for here WRT advice. I wouldn't put any stock in much of it, including mine, however I do like the little Backyard Flier.

Peace - out.
 
docmirror said:
So if I were to take the same tack WRT the prev advice offered, it would be ok? I mean, just because someone posts as anon, that doesn't invalidate their POV. Also, the post didn't commit a personal attack, as I recall the post, it was spot on point to the question of the OP, and one of the replies which I thought was also incorrect. Further, the person mentioned in the post has every opportunity to come back and defend their(wrong) POV.

This is a sad state of affairs. I guess to the OP; you get what you pay for here WRT advice. I wouldn't put any stock in much of it, including mine, however I do like the little Backyard Flier.

Peace - out.
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When the post includes a statement "...don't let the [POA user] destroy the freedoms...", it is easily taken as a personal attack in my book.

If the poster had used his name, then we could ask him to modify/delete the offending portion. As an anon, the poster can't edit the post.

It's too bad that useful information was deleted because the poster chose to use the anon feature to become personal with other POA members.
 
For what it's worth, I thought Ron's response was rather sensitive and sympathetic, and certainly less strident than his typical tone. Maybe this is the kinder, gentler Ron. I was thinking that maybe he'd taken a Dale Carnegie course or something.

I also saw the post that had been removed, and I agree that it contained a useful alternate interpretation, but that the attack against Ron was over the line. Ron Levy can always be counted upon to give the interpretation that will keep a pilot out of trouble. He's a by-the-book kind of guy, maybe to extremes at times; but you won't wind up in jail listening to Ron's advice.

I personally appreciate that because although I readily admit to playing on the edge (and rather enjoying it), Ron's posts help me know exactly where the edge is. So I take Ron's advice for what it's worth, relying on his well-established habit of walking the straight and narrow: And then I play.

Rich
 
wsuffa said:
When the post includes a statement "...don't let the [POA user] destroy the freedoms...", it is easily taken as a personal attack in my book.

If the poster had used his name, then we could ask him to modify/delete the offending portion. As an anon, the poster can't edit the post.

It's too bad that useful information was deleted because the poster chose to use the anon feature to become personal with other POA members.
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K. Frankly, I think you and the rest of the MC need a bit more liberal with the hand of ban, but it's not my board. I still think the anon posters message to the OP was spot on. I mean, if a schizo can't go fly a 254Lb plane around in a rural/desolate area without some special dispensation from the almighty feds, like I said prev - a truly sad state of affairs.
 
I do thank everyone that gave me good advice and screw the ones who make fun of me. I can hear your laughter over here and is part of why the stigma is still alive and well. The reason I started this thread was to make sure I do things right. I didn't choose to be schizoaffective but it happened. It sounds like I need to get a note from my doctor(who almost certainly will decline my request) or fly with a CFI. If anyone has a list of glider people in the Utah area I would be grateful. I just want to do what is legal so I don't end up raped, beaten, and murdered in prison because that is what happens in a place like that and is most certainly what happens to people who cross the feds who themselves lie all the time but get very angry when lied to.
 
Unregistered said:
I do thank everyone that gave me good advice and screw the ones who make fun of me. I can hear your laughter over here and is part of why the stigma is still alive and well. The reason I started this thread was to make sure I do things right. I didn't choose to be schizoaffective but it happened. It sounds like I need to get a note from my doctor(who almost certainly will decline my request) or fly with a CFI. If anyone has a list of glider people in the Utah area I would be grateful. I just want to do what is legal so I don't end up raped, beaten, and murdered in prison because that is what happens in a place like that and is most certainly what happens to people who cross the feds who themselves lie all the time but get very angry when lied to.
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If it's ultralights you're interested in, you don't need a note. For your own protection (and others'), you just need to talk it over with your doctor and come to an honest understanding of whether it's something that you can safely do, and under what conditions. That's not even a legal requirement so much as a common-sense one. You want to be safe.

For gliders (or SP), you would have to be able to self-certify, so that's a bit more complex legally speaking.

In the meantime, you may want to peruse:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=glider+instruction+utah

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=eaa+utah+chapters

For what it's worth, I fly almost exclusively under Part 103 these days (ultralights), and the 103 community includes enough interesting characters to keep a gaggle of shrinks fully-employed for a long time. So don't give up. Just be honest so you can be safe. From your posts so far, I'm pretty sure that you're going to do the right thing, whatever that thing may be.

Good luck to you.

Rich
 
Ron Levy said:
...which might be difficult.
I find it very easy to believe the FAA would argue that the operation of an ultralight vehicle by a diagnosed schizophrenic would inherently constitute "a hazard to other persons or property" unless those operations were confined to remote areas with no persons and nothing of value below.
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The above is absolutely incorrect. The FAA explicitly states:

"When an ultralight is involved in an accident, the first step by the FAA is to determine if it is a “true” ultralight, in accordance with the regulations, or if it is an unregistered aircraft that does not qualify for true ultralight status. If it is a true ultralight (see bullets, page one), the FAA will defer any further investigation of the accident to local law enforcement. The accident then becomes a law enforcement investigation, and the FAA has no further involvement."
Source:
http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?print=go&newsId=6633


I know of no cases where the FAA has ever taken action against an operator of a true ultralight because the operator had any medical condition of any sort. If they defer action to local law enforcement even in the face of an actual accident, they definitely will not take any preemptive action based on the condition of the pilot or the aircraft. Airworthiness of pilot or aircraft simply doesn't apply and Ron appears to be dragging in factors from other regulatory Parts where they do not apply.
 
Unregistered said:
I do thank everyone that gave me good advice and screw the ones who make fun of me. I can hear your laughter over here and is part of why the stigma is still alive and well. The reason I started this thread was to make sure I do things right. I didn't choose to be schizoaffective but it happened. It sounds like I need to get a note from my doctor(who almost certainly will decline my request) or fly with a CFI. If anyone has a list of glider people in the Utah area I would be grateful. I just want to do what is legal so I don't end up raped, beaten, and murdered in prison because that is what happens in a place like that and is most certainly what happens to people who cross the feds who themselves lie all the time but get very angry when lied to.
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Well, I hope you don't think I was one of those poking fun at your expense. For the record, I don't think you need a note from anyone; be it a MD, FAA, or the almighty hand of Barrack himself. Buy what you want, learn to be safe, follow(most) of the rules, and go fly.

So, lets say worst case, you are flying a glider/ultralight, and you land in someone's house, and kill them. Absolute worst case. What're they gonna do? It's a civil infraction unless you are drunk. Fine and some comm service. If they try to put you in jail for it, then it's beyond civil, and has to go to a criminal court. You think that any jury is going to convict you of having an accident? Ever hear of an auto accident? Do you drive a car? If you can drive a 6000Lb Ford truck, you can handle a 254Lb single seat UL, or a glider with a lawnmower engine on it.

Eff em, go live your life brother.:wink2:
 
RJM62 said:
If it's ultralights you're interested in, you don't need a note. For your own protection (and others'), you just need to talk it over with your doctor and come to an honest understanding of whether it's something that you can safely do, and under what conditions. That's not even a legal requirement so much as a common-sense one. You want to be safe.

For gliders (or SP), you would have to be able to self-certify, so that's a bit more complex legally speaking.

In the meantime, you may want to peruse:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=glider+instruction+utah

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=eaa+utah+chapters

For what it's worth, I fly almost exclusively under Part 103 these days (ultralights), and the 103 community includes enough interesting characters to keep a gaggle of shrinks fully-employed for a long time. So don't give up. Just be honest so you can be safe. From your posts so far, I'm pretty sure that you're going to do the right thing, whatever that thing may be.

Good luck to you.

Rich
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Nice touch with the duckduckgo link.
 
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