Flying For Good

maddog52

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maddog52
My good friend Charles Stites started a website featuring people and nonprofit organizations that use general aviation "For Good". Some good stories. Check them out and be sure to contact him if you have any suggestions. I know he would appreciate it.

http://www.flyingforgood.com/
 
He doesn't mention the largest single operator of single-engine Cessnas in the world?

(U.S. Civil Air Patrol)
 
CAP doesn't seem to be in the same vein as some of the others.
 
CAP doesn't seem to be in the same vein as some of the others.
Why not? If you are lost in the Arizona desert running low on water you might have a different opinion of the CAP.
 
Why not? If you are lost in the Arizona desert running low on water you might have a different opinion of the CAP.

Not this cowboy! When I fly over dry country, I have over a weeks worth of water with me in virtually indestructable jerricans. Plus CAP is AF auxiliary isn't it? So I still say it's not quite the same vein as the others mentioned.
 
Not this cowboy! When I fly over dry country, I have over a weeks worth of water with me in virtually indestructable jerricans. Plus CAP is AF auxiliary isn't it? So I still say it's not quite the same vein as the others mentioned.

CAP is a Congressional-chartered organization and may be identified as a USAF "auxiliary" but as a rule, the AF has little to do with it. It is not funded by the AF but directly by Congress. Since funds must be distributed somehow, it's thru the AF. More important, CAP has other funding sources, mostly donations and grants. Ever hear of an AF organization charging membership?

Legally, it's not an operating entity of the AF and no member is legally affiliated with the AF. If a CAP member is in uniform (altho it looks a lot like the AF) there is no obligation by any member of the Armed Services to salute them.

No, not a member. Just know too many of them.
 
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Not this cowboy! When I fly over dry country, I have over a weeks worth of water with me in virtually indestructable jerricans. Plus CAP is AF auxiliary isn't it? So I still say it's not quite the same vein as the others mentioned.
So stupid people are not worth rescuing? How cruel. What if you have an off field landing in a remote area? Would you want the CAP out searching for you? CAP pilots are mostly volunteers so it is irrelevant if they are the AF auxiliary.
 
So stupid people are not worth rescuing? How cruel. What if you have an off field landing in a remote area? Would you want the CAP out searching for you? CAP pilots are mostly volunteers so it is irrelevant if they are the AF auxiliary.

Q: What will that CAP search party do after they find someone?

A: Call in a helicopter to do the real rescue work, assuming the helicopter wasn't called already.

If I'm looking for someone to save me, the sound of a helicopter will be music to my ears. The CAP might help find me faster, but then I'll need the real rescue crews to get to me.
 
Q: What will that CAP search party do after they find someone?

A: Call in a helicopter to do the real rescue work, assuming the helicopter wasn't called already.

If I'm looking for someone to save me, the sound of a helicopter will be music to my ears. The CAP might help find me faster, but then I'll need the real rescue crews to get to me.

But CAP is cheaper. You can send out a bunch of CAP airplanes (and/or ground crews) to search, then only 1 helicopter is needed for the actual rescue. But then, I live in Colorado, and most of the CAP searches are in areas where a helicopter can't land, so it's always a ground rescue.
 
My good friend Charles Stites started a website featuring people and nonprofit organizations that use general aviation "For Good". Some good stories. Check them out and be sure to contact him if you have any suggestions. I know he would appreciate it.

http://www.flyingforgood.com/
What a great website! I think it's a great idea to compile a list/blog of the organizations and pilots that use their airplanes and talent for helping others; this website has the potential to highlight the unique and important ways GA provides assistance to others.
I think that the real benefit of the site is that pilots can stumble upon it and be inspired to volunteer by any one of the organizations or missions. Many pilots would be interested in donating their time and skill; many don't know about specific channels for GA volunteering.
I personally will volunteer as much as possible once I get the number of hours I need to satisfy the requirements of the organizations (usually 250 hours). Until then, I'll check back to this site to see what opportunities exist to put my certificate to use beyond sightseeing and hamburger flights.
Bravo Charlie Stites!
 
So stupid people are not worth rescuing?

Where did he say that?

How cruel.
Answering your own question, while trying to attribute the answer to someone else?

What if you have an off field landing in a remote area? Would you want the CAP out searching for you?
I don't think any reasonable person would make light of those kinds of efforts.

CAP pilots are mostly volunteers so it is irrelevant if they are the AF auxiliary.
There are some equally reasonable people that don't happen to support some other CAP operations like law enforcement assistance. So, yeah, I can see how someone could say the CAP is not in the same vein as a group that does animal rescue flights or helps handicapped people to fly.
 
Regardless of the official status of the CAP, the mission is generally different from the organizations listed on the website. If anything, I'm suprised Angel Flight was not listed.
 
You don't always need to land to do the rescue by helicopter. Plenty of hoisting is done, although maybe not in Colorado.

Yes, CAP is cheaper, and I understand the value of it. Still, the bigger SAR teams have a lot more tools at their disposal than CAP.

My point was: Do I want CAP searching for me? Sure, it can't hurt. But what I really want is the SAR team in the helicopter searching for me.
 
I guess this all hinges on what the site owner decides is "Flying for Good."

Which is fine, and understandable.

That said, the AOPA and others fall all over themselves "See? We rescued X! Flew Organ Parts here! We flew all over and finally found So and So!"

That's fine, but that sort of flying is and will remain a subset of General Aviation.

How about this? "I fly because I like to."

FWIW, this is the exact same argument Gun Owners fall into: "See! My gun saved me from X!"

Who cares? How about "I like guns and own them and shoot them. Because I want to."

Why do we have to justify the hobby with marginal utility arguments?
 
Regardless of the official status of the CAP, the mission is generally different from the organizations listed on the website. If anything, I'm suprised Angel Flight was not listed.
I agree that the CAP really does not "fit" well in that website. I got the impression that somebody here thinks that the CAP does not provide a valuable humanitarian service. Searching for lost people in need of rescue fits my definition. I am also surprised that Angel Flight did not make the list.
 
He doesn't mention the largest single operator of single-engine Cessnas in the world?

(U.S. Civil Air Patrol)
It looks like this website is just beginning and suggestions like yours of where to look for "Flying for Good" will be welcome. These others came to mind:

Angel Flights and its successors
Animal Rescue Flights
Cloud Nine
Coast Guard Auxiliary

I think that AOPA has lists of organizations, too.

This website is a good idea. I have some quibbles with the layout, but not a big deal. Kudos to the author.
 
I'm fascinated by the concept that one volunteer lifesaving organization is somehow "different" than another one. Maybe because one wears military style uniforms and the other doesn't? CAP has done humanitarian missions, too. Last summer, CAP members manned the distribution center at the Boulder, CO wildfire, for example. We can be called out to assist with just about anything, really. We show up with volunteers and a command structure and proper points of contact, ICS training to be able to fit right into most incident response, especially at disasters. Lots of sorties flown over Katrina for example, including simply acting as a high communications relay aircraft, etc. Crews from all over the U.S. Giving kids (cadets) a way to excel while learning and participating in an Aerospace Education program. It isn't just SAR. CAP was first to find a non-distress 406 MHz ELT just yesterday here in the Colorado Front Range, however. Do the uniforms need to be changed to something else to qualify as "humanitarian" enough?
 
I'm fascinated by the concept that one volunteer lifesaving organization is somehow "different" than another one. Maybe because one wears military style uniforms and the other doesn't?

IMO, it's not the uniforms. It's doing stuff like:

Performs aerial reconnaissance for homeland security.

Assists federal law enforcement agencies in the war on drugs.

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAP_Fact_Sheet_09_09_B1C2398575B72.pdf

and...

Boise police coordinated a multi law enforcement agency “kegger patrol” Saturday night where officers broke up about half a dozen parties in the desert and gave out 67 tickets for consumption of alcohol by minors.
Boise police have been coordinating the multi-agency “kegger patrol” for graduation weekend for the past three years but this was the first time they were able to use the Civil Air Patrol to help out, Officer Jermain Galloway said Monday.



http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/06/07/1221636/boise-police-use-planes-to-locate.html
 
I'm fascinated by the concept that one volunteer lifesaving organization is somehow "different" than another one. Maybe because one wears military style uniforms and the other doesn't? CAP has done humanitarian missions, too. Last summer, CAP members manned the distribution center at the Boulder, CO wildfire, for example. We can be called out to assist with just about anything, really. We show up with volunteers and a command structure and proper points of contact, ICS training to be able to fit right into most incident response, especially at disasters. Lots of sorties flown over Katrina for example, including simply acting as a high communications relay aircraft, etc. Crews from all over the U.S. Giving kids (cadets) a way to excel while learning and participating in an Aerospace Education program. It isn't just SAR. CAP was first to find a non-distress 406 MHz ELT just yesterday here in the Colorado Front Range, however. Do the uniforms need to be changed to something else to qualify as "humanitarian" enough?

It's a gov't program and gov't funded, that's why I don't consider it the same. Ugh...anyone that assists with DHS can be doing nothing good. I get contacted by them on occasion, and I do as little as I can to help. So far that's been nothing.
 
It's a gov't program and gov't funded, that's why I don't consider it the same. Ugh...anyone that assists with DHS can be doing nothing good. I get contacted by them on occasion, and I do as little as I can to help. So far that's been nothing.

Hey, someone has to protect us from 'man caused disasters'!
 
IMO, it's not the uniforms. It's doing stuff like:

Performs aerial reconnaissance for homeland security.

Assists federal law enforcement agencies in the war on drugs.

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAP_Fact_Sheet_09_09_B1C2398575B72.pdf

and...

Boise police coordinated a multi law enforcement agency “kegger patrol” Saturday night where officers broke up about half a dozen parties in the desert and gave out 67 tickets for consumption of alcohol by minors.
Boise police have been coordinating the multi-agency “kegger patrol” for graduation weekend for the past three years but this was the first time they were able to use the Civil Air Patrol to help out, Officer Jermain Galloway said Monday.



http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/06/07/1221636/boise-police-use-planes-to-locate.html

All of those missions are volunteer, just like all the rest, and they don't detract or change the fact that CAP is a life-saving or human service organization at all, since both missions can be accomplished with the same aircraft, so your logic is flawed.

One should also point out that whenever law enforcement is involved, a law enforcement official must be on board to look out the window, and see whatever it is that they want to see. It's not legal for us to do any "surveillance", really. It's also not allowed for them to just call up and jump aboard any time they wish -- any non-member flying in the aircraft triggers a call to a National Operations Center, and a pile of paperwork. The only time I've ever seen that bypassed is if someone's life was threatened, and even then, the notification wheels were turning, it was just time-sensitive to get a Sheriff up so he could see the location of a person needing rescue.

Law enforcement must follow strict rules about "surveillance" of Citizens per regular-ol' U.S. law, as well. The articles make it sound as if we're cracking out the night-vision scopes and watching people. We're not even allowed to use the word "surveillance" during briefings and de-briefings because we're not law-enforcement. Most of the time the served agencies are looking at things, not people, from what I hear.

"Reconnaissance" would be a better choice.

They government isn't exactly going to jump out of a red-white-and-blue Cessna 182 owned by a non-profit Corporation, NOT the government, by the way... with their weapons slung under their arms, flying under parachute canopies, under dark of night, and go in guns-a-blazing.

(Although it does sound kinda funny, "Team America", the movie, style. LOL!)

Meanwhile, by way of more information on those missions -- Members have to be members for a significant amount of time (2 years minimum) to even volunteer for those style missions, and no one is ever required to fly them, or have some problem with those roles, they don't have to participate.

Additionally on the Boise thing -- I can't speak for Idaho, but some CAP Wings are "dual-hatted", and funded by National for the SAR and National functions, and funded by their State for State functions.

Colorado is this way. A Colorado Sheriff or Fire Chief can request assistance, and CAP operates not as a National organization, but under the Colorado Department of Veteran's Affairs.

If you think it's hard to figure that out from outside, imagine the paperwork.

Often when National "runs out of money" for certain things, the State leadership decides to pay for those functions. SAR for lost hikers and mountaineers being a good example. National CAP flies only inland SAR missions triggered by the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center. State-triggered search missions, are not funded by National.

In fact, in Colorado, much of the maintenance of the aircraft is handled by the State. It's one of those rare, efficient, instances where resources can be operated by both a National non-profit, or State government.

Aircraft and aircrews are even under different liability, insurance, and all sorts of changes happen depending on the type of mission and who's paying for it.

And Members are ALWAYS able to turn down any mission type they don't want to fly.

The "job" is always just to provide a relatively inexpensive transportation to get folks aloft who need to go aloft. That's it. Savings are significant over flying say, a Bell JetRanger or a Chinook, or even many other larger fixed-wing aircraft available for the duties. When it's SAR activity, more eyes is usually better, and the Chinooks and Guard helos know they can work with our chain of command to coordinate search activity. Often the Incident Commander will assign the helos to high-probability areas first, and scatter the Cessnas around in nearby search grids. That gives the best shot for a "direct rescue", as someone pointed out.

So, in general, government agencies never play well together and always want their own toys and own budgets, so no matter how convenient you make offering them a ride in the back of a 182, they eventually buy their own and waste taxpayer dollars. I suspect CAP's role in these law-enforcement things will fade over time.

Hawaii Wing, does Tsunami patrols, with high powered warning speakers and amplifiers with recorded warning messages and also watches for the wave heading ashore, as an example of how really flexible the overall mission roles are. We have no such training here.

Lately these law-enforcement style missions are virtually non-existent or very low tempo, while in most areas the real prep-work these days really is for disaster support. Learning aerial photography skills to be able to show if a bridge is washed out, or a dam has broken and how much damage, is a critical skill defined after things like Katrina, that CAP can fill.

Communications, is also a common role. It doesn't take much money to keep a radio system aloft for ground communications in a disaster area in a C-182, and it can stay aloft quite a while until something bigger, and more expensive to fly, can arrive. (Often a C-130.) During Katrina, I have heard rumors that a number of CAP aircraft were high overhead just helping log in-bound and out-bound times on other aircraft to keep the grids "safe" for the myriad of aircraft in and out. A mini ATC function, so to speak. I believe they also flew supplies of various sorts all over the place down there, as needed.

Anyway, my point stands. CAP is just as much a service to fellow humans as any other service organization. Back in 1942 I suppose "we" dropped some bombs on some German submarines, but back then that was "humanitarian" also, keeping the folks living near the coasts alive.

Want some real "Flying for Good" just talk to an Air Force C-5 Galaxy crew who show up bringing in supplies in a disaster area. Their contribution, even if they're paid to do it, can't be lessened. CAP doing similar things as a multi-funded 501(c)3 non-profit Corporation utilizing volunteers who pay dues to do it, but have the aircraft purchased for their use by Congress, seems even more "humanitarian".

Other than the voluntary law-enforcement missions, CAP is probably the largest, most standardized, and most active aviation humanitarian non-profit in the country. If you count free airplane rides to kids as "humanitarian", Young Eagles is bigger.
 
Is the bill for the CAP maintenance, fuel, etc...footed by the pilots?
 
I appreciate your enthusiasm for CAP and I'm glad to hear that the L.E. connection is minimal. I'm sure 99+ percent of what CAP does is great stuff. Call me paranoid or whatever you like, but I just have a really strong objection to questionable entities like DHS using civilian volunteers to carry out their questionable operations, that's all. Reminds me of things other places have done in the past that ended badly.

Carry on!
 
Is the bill for the CAP maintenance, fuel, etc...footed by the pilots?
No. Pilots pay an hourly fee for non mission training. I don't mind paying taxes to support the CAP. If you don't want to support CAP with your tax dollars call or write your elected officials to pull the plug.
 
Is the bill for the CAP maintenance, fuel, etc...footed by the pilots?

Depends on the specific flight and the Wing's relationship with the State.

Missions are broken down into categories, with A being Federal funded, Federal insurance. B & C work their way down through State funded, State insured, and on down to local or pilot/crew funded, Corporate insurance.

In Colorado, most maintenance is handled by the State of Colorado. Not all Wings have that benefit. Members also pay additional dues to Wing here, and also Squadron dues in some Squadrons -- that cover things like cleaning supplies, and all the various things that get used to keep an airplane flying... or patch up the radios, or buy tow bars, ground power for the G1000's so people can train on the ground, pre-heaters, tugs, flight sim PCs for folks to use, a printer, a fax machine... whatever. Sometimes ex-military stuff is made available through AF Depots, but more often than not, it's out of everyone's pockets. The joke has always been that CAP stands for "Come and Pay".

Fuel, if it's a National mission, is covered. SAR, yes. Those "special" missions, probably yes. CAP is often reimbursed by the other served agency.

Cadet Orientation rides, never supposed to be paid by the Cadet or their family, but sometimes funded, sometimes not. Funding goes up and down as do the number of them given. Pilot/Crew can elect to do an un-funded O-ride, but they're paying for it if they do. Never the cadet.

Glider encampments, tow-plane for the Cadets is usually funded. Seniors, probably not. Glider hours for the cadets, free. Seniors, not. O-rides again, same as above, where Senior is flying a cadet around... Instruction, again free.

Then you get into the stuff some Wings don't have... State missions.

If it's a State mission, it's usually covered. Usually meaning, most of the time, since these are mostly SAR or disaster flights.

Training is usually all on your own dime, as are proficiency flights, and there's a fair amount required. CAP Instructors are not allowed to charge for their time, but there's an FAR specifically saying they can receive the "compensation" of logging their time from the FAA.

About once or twice a year a SAREX (search and rescue exercise) is called for a larger geographical area, and some amount of funds are set aside to get people experience and through their final flights for various aircrew qualifications, not just pilot, and qualified for on-the-ground jobs, etc.

Example, it's hard to learn how to coordinate multiple airplanes and become, say... an Air Operations Branch Director in the Incident Command System if you've never handled five aircraft inbound and outbound to a Mission Base all day. And hard to become a Communications Unit Leader if you haven't shown up at an unfamiliar airport and laid out a plan that'll let you talk to units scattered over (out here, anyway) hundreds of miles, both air and ground stations.

Then there's basic proficiency flying. That fuel is not paid, and is paid by the pilot and/or crew together. Neither are Mountain Flying courses, or other proficiency flights required to maintain currency, typically.

Sometimes a SAREX flight can count for a checkride, for example, but not often. You show up and pay for your proficiency flying, instuction, and checkrides most of the time.

Some funded checkrides happen, but they're like unicorns... everyone says they exist but no one finds them in real life. ;)

Clear as mud? Helpful? There are something like 30+ jobs all with multiple demonstrated tasks required just for Emergency Services, and only a handful of them are Aircrew. There's a lot of on-the-ground coordination jobs that need doing, and folks are highly recommended to be cross-qualified. It takes a long time to get fully-qualified to do "everything" if you ever do. Many don't. You can go as deep into the rabbit hole as you like. :wink2:

At the Squadron level, even when ES activity isn't on-going, there are tons of Officer jobs just to keep the Squadron running. This is called "Professional Development", and leads to rank in CAP. The ranking system is modeled after the Air Force, but based on knowledge tests, time in job, and performance of various duties. You can find Captains running Squadrons with Majors and Colonels as members, for example. And when it comes to Emergency Services, an Incident Commander could literally be any "rank", the qualifications are handled separately for ES roles.

I'm an "Assistant Communications Officer", "Assistant Administrative Officer", and "Assistant Emergency Services Officer", but only rated in two of those functions in the ranking system "Communications Technician" and "Emergency Services Technician" and training on the third (Admin), as well as working on the requirements for the "Communications Senior".

Those mean literally nothing in the Emergency Services side of the house... those ratings are completely separate.

You can find ways to stay ultra-busy and totally away from any "mission" you care to avoid, that's for sure. You also pay for a LOT of it. A funded flight is sometimes like a breath of fresh air.

"Hey, I can get that last flight in for XYZ rating during the SAREX! Cool!"
 
I remember talking to the Lighthawk guy many, many years ago. I sent them a resume looking for a job but he was looking for volunteers. He called me because of the mapping on my resume and he wanted to ask something about how we went about it.

Of course in thinking about it the mapping I flew was mostly in support of the dark side; developers, mining, transmission lines, highways, landfills, etc, not conservation.
 
Is the bill for the CAP maintenance, fuel, etc...footed by the pilots?

That itself isn't necessarily a determining factor. Remember, I rarely pay for fuel, maintenance, etc. for all of the flying I do, and most people think it's good (and if they don't, I don't care ;) ).
 
Complaints, complaints, complaints. Guy puts up a website lauding pilots for the good they do and all we get here is complaints about CAP. Sheesh.:confused:
 
I'm not complaining, I just see a difference between taxpayer funded operations, and donation funded operations. CAP is like the welfare system of flying. :eek: :D
 
Complaints, complaints, complaints. Guy puts up a website lauding pilots for the good they do and all we get here is complaints about CAP. Sheesh.:confused:

Haven't you learned? This is the internet!
 
I'm not complaining, I just see a difference between taxpayer funded operations, and donation funded operations. CAP is like the welfare system of flying. :eek: :D


Good grief -- really? I've been in CAP and chose not to continue for various reasons, but that's weak, Ed.
 
Good grief -- really? I've been in CAP and chose not to continue for various reasons, but that's weak, Ed.

Only because it's gov't funded. Same as private charities do the same things as welfare. Not because of who is flying in it.
 
Only because it's gov't funded. Same as private charities do the same things as welfare. Not because of who is flying in it.

So, in the American Red Cross welfare because they get FEMA money to assist with disaster victims?
 
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