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evapilotaz

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Joined
Feb 13, 2012
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Gilbert AZ. VFR All Year Baby
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Drone airspace abuser
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KCHD
I'm trying to decide on a flight club and figure out the pros and cons. I need you kind folks help.

First let me start of with this.

Is it normal for a flying club to ask for a Credit report with income information. They also what a 39 month DMV report for my driving history.
Not if I have anything to worry about just wondering.
 
That doesn't seem too too crazy but I've never seen any club actually follow up on it.

Mine said they 'may' do it, but I think if you go in and take the tour and they see you aren't crazy they might not ask for it.

But it all depends on the club I'd say.
 
The credit report and income info doesn't seem too out of bounds. You might politely ask why from a privacy standpoint. It could be the club has gotten burned by someone who built up some debt to them and then disappeared.

DMV sounds a bit extreme. You already covered such issues when you applied for a medical. So if you hold a current FAA medical, that's an asked and answered question.

What's the name of the club? Perhaps someone here knows more about the group.

What aircraft do they offer? Rates? What is buy-in/monthly/rental?
 
I can see their interest in seeing your credit worthiness. You might ask about their data security mesures before you allow them to keep a copy of the report.
 
They have several aircraft to rent.

There are two aircraft I would rent from them.

1975 Cessna 182 $135/Tach Hour Wet "I need High performance check out first"
2001 Cessna 172S $120/Tach Hour Wet

Membership shares $3,000 Refundable when leaving club
Monthly dues $100 per month.

Insurance. Liability and Hull coverage while flying. included Low deductible depending if the aircraft was in motion or not. Named Insured on policy.



My current situation.

FBO rental C172 $108 Hobbs. I have to pay for my own rental insurance.
No monthly dues and now Membership Buy In.
 
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I'm trying to figure what benefits joining the flying club.

They still use their aircraft for training. Maybe not nearly as many students. I don't think there would be a lot of students that would put out $3,000 before they are a PPL.

I'm more interested in flying a newer non G1000 C172 then what I'm currently flying now.

From My understanding Tach time is better than Hobbs time when being billed.
I'm not sure if I will be charged taxes for my rental time like I do with the FBO.

I don't have to pay rental insurance so this will save me a few hundred a year.
 
The benefit of the club is modestly better A/C, often lower price for a comparable aircraft, and better availability for XC trips, often without daily minimums that the FBO might want.

The FBO's interest is in keeping their planes local for training flights so they can book more hours on the plane AND the some instructor time as well. Getting one for a three-day holiday weekend to go someplace 2-3 hours flight time away may prove difficult. With the club its just a matter of whatever their scheduling constraints are, and general availability.

I wish I could fly a 182 for $135 tach wet.
 
You really need to sit down and run the numbers, including capital buy in and recurring fees, and compare them with a straight rental for the same planes, using realistic yearly hours you expect to fly. In many cases you might not find it to be cheaper.

The single biggest advantage is that you might have access to nicer, more capable planes than you would from a rental FBO.
 
Oh they also have a 1966 Beechcraft C33 Debonair with newer panel, paint and interior. Also Retracts.

$150/Tach Hour Wet. I'm not qualified to fly this one. Maybe in a year or so.
 
evapilotaz said:
They also what a 39 month DMV report for my driving history.
Not if I have anything to worry about just wondering.
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They want $39 EVERY month to pull your DMV record? :eek: Either they are over the top paranoid control freaks... OR, they dont really pull the report that often and are just using this as an excuse for an un-official 39% dues increase.:idea: Things that make you go WTH?
 
evapilotaz said:
Oh they also have a 1966 Beechcraft C33 Debonair with newer panel, paint and interior. Also Retracts.

$150/Tach Hour Wet. I'm not qualified to fly this one. Maybe in a year or so.
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The nearest Deb I can find rents for $265 on the Hobbs wet. That sounds like a good deal but again, you need to amortize capital buy in and fixed costs for a true comparison.

A year to get a complex/high performance endorsement? They probably have some minimum retract time you need to have for insurance purposes, but it's probably no more than 25 hours, 5-10 of them will be getting you endorsed and checked out in it.
 
arejay said:
They want $39 EVERY month to pull your DMV record? :eek: Either they are over the top paranoid control freaks... OR, they dont really pull the report that often and are just using this as an excuse for an un-official 39% dues increase.:idea: Things that make you go WTH?
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Um, no, they want one DMV report going back 39 months.

I'd probably tell them to smoke some more crack and look elsewhere still, though.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Um, no, they want one DMV report going back 39 months.

I'd probably tell them to smoke some more crack and look elsewhere still, though.
Click to expand...

Ah! OK.... I misread what you said, I presumed it was a minor type error when I read it. I do agree and would question why they need to see your DMV at all since driving a car is nothing like flying a plane?
 
arejay said:
Ah! OK.... I misread what you said, I presumed it was a minor type error when I read it. I do agree and would question why they need to see your DMV at all since driving a car is nothing like flying a plane?
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Because they are taking the FAA mentality that every other action you take in life directly affects your piloting ability, such as DUI's, history of reckless driving, etc....
 
Sac Arrow said:
Because they are taking the FAA mentality that every other action you take in life directly affects your piloting ability, such as DUI's, history of reckless driving, etc....
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Understood. Unfortunately, the FAA (much like the IRS, or any other big brother govt agency) can get away with it. However, this being a private outfit, we can tell them to pound sand. If enough people say that and walk, then they will have no choice but to either close the doors or change their policy.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Um, no, they want one DMV report going back 39 months.

I'd probably tell them to smoke some more crack and look elsewhere still, though.
Click to expand...

arejay said:
Ah! OK.... I misread what you said, I presumed it was a minor type error when I read it. I do agree and would question why they need to see your DMV at all since driving a car is nothing like flying a plane?
Click to expand...

Except that your driving record IS a good predictor of your likelihood to have an accident in an airplane. Just about any piloting job will require you to allow your potential employer to get a copy of your DMV report.

At the end of the day, it's their flying club, their rules.
 
Sac Arrow said:
A year to get a complex/high performance endorsement? They probably have some minimum retract time you need to have for insurance purposes, but it's probably no more than 25 hours, 5-10 of them will be getting you endorsed and checked out in it.
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I've seen 500 hours and Instrument Rating at clubs before letting you take the Bonanza.
 
Johann said:
I've seen 500 hours and Instrument Rating at clubs before letting you take the Bonanza.
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This is from one of the clubs around here....


  • Club checkout, 350 hours pilot time and an Instrument Rating.​
  • At least 25 hours PIC and/or dual instruction in a Beech Bonanza and/or Debonair;​
  • Plus either of the following...
    * at least 50 hours total retractable time, including at least 10 hours of dual with CFI in a Beech Debonair and/or Bonanza aircraft of which at least 5 hours must be dual instruction with a WFC approved CFI in 9003S and/or 275BM
    - or -
    * at least 25 hours of dual instruction with a CFI in a Beech Debonair and/or Bonanza aircraft of which at least 10 hours must be dual instruction with a WFC approved CFI in 9003S and/or 275BM​
 
Brad Z said:
Except that your driving record IS a good predictor of your likelihood to have an accident in an airplane. Just about any piloting job will require you to allow your potential employer to get a copy of your DMV report.

At the end of the day, it's their flying club, their rules.
Click to expand...

I understand the argument and I can agree with it a limited amount. Very limited. Case in point: I would never entertain the thought of having a drink and then go flying and abide by the 8 hour rule strictly at a very minimum. Car? Pfft. Hell, when I'm in Southeast Asia, I pound beers all night then drive home (it's legal.)

Johann said:
I've seen 500 hours and Instrument Rating at clubs before letting you take the Bonanza.
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Yeah although I'm sure 500 hours is total time. My FBO had a 250 hour TT, and a 25 hour retract time for a Bonanza or a Debonair.
 
The Bo crashed at Telluride CO in Feb according to this. http://www.ibtimes.com/telluride-plane-crash-sherry-anderson-sherman-anderson-eric-durban-identified-victims-1556286

Flight time is billed monthly and can ad up. It's easier to make sure the applicant is a good risk up front, no bad intent on the clubs part. The DMV check is just to make sure you have reasonable judgement and are not an accident magnet.

I was in this club a few years ago (on the BOD), and would join again if my situation warranted it. Get a hold of whoever is the current president and go over your reservations, he'd be best/ to explain.

I always "won" on the tach vs hobbs when I was in this club. The 182 got paint, motor, interior when I was in the club and was a nice bird last I saw. If I remember correctly they were very easy on the daily minimum policy also.

The airpark they are located at makes for really quick in/out saving time/money on ground ops.

James
 
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Our Bonanza requirements are 200 hrs PIC, High Power and Complex endorsements, and appropriate checkout by instructor we know and respect. Completing the BPPP is encouraged.

And we got one of the best deals going for our area.... $130/tach hr wet on the Bo (just installed an Aspen and GTN 750) and $110/tach hr wet on the C182P. No overnight charge or minimum.
 
arejay said:
They want $39 EVERY month to pull your DMV record? :eek: Either they are over the top paranoid control freaks... OR, they dont really pull the report that often and are just using this as an excuse for an un-official 39% dues increase.:idea: Things that make you go WTH?
Click to expand...

No No :rofl: The want a 39 month driving history from DMV.
 
arejay said:
Ah! OK.... I misread what you said, I presumed it was a minor type error when I read it. I do agree and would question why they need to see your DMV at all since driving a car is nothing like flying a plane?
Click to expand...

I wasn't clear in my original post. Sorry about that. :)
 
Here is the Debonair requirements.

Private Pilot Certificate or greater and an aircraft checkout by a current Club Approved CFI. High Performance signoff. 125 hours total time; 50 hours in retractable gear aircraft or 15 hours dual in our Debonair.

I need the 15 hour dual time with Retracts and High performance signoff. At this time I do not need an aircraft at this caliber.

Oh the 182P and C172 looks to have newer Paint, Interior, and panel upgrades.



 
momalley said:
This is from one of the clubs around here....


  • Club checkout, 350 hours pilot time and an Instrument Rating.​
  • At least 25 hours PIC and/or dual instruction in a Beech Bonanza and/or Debonair;​
  • Plus either of the following...
    * at least 50 hours total retractable time, including at least 10 hours of dual with CFI in a Beech Debonair and/or Bonanza aircraft of which at least 5 hours must be dual instruction with a WFC approved CFI in 9003S and/or 275BM
    - or -
    * at least 25 hours of dual instruction with a CFI in a Beech Debonair and/or Bonanza aircraft of which at least 10 hours must be dual instruction with a WFC approved CFI in 9003S and/or 275BM​
Click to expand...

I think they must be confusing their debonair with a mig 15. Jesus those people are stupid!
 
The requirements for the Bo don't matter much as it crashed killing all three on board in Feb. according to. http://www.ibtimes.com/telluride-plane-crash-sherry-anderson-sherman-anderson-eric-durban-identified-victims-1556286

[URL="http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=163912"]http://www.kpho.com/story/24745015/3-arizona-pilots-killed-in-colorado-plane-crash[/URL]

Have they replaced it?


James

Edit: Looking at the cloudbusters site http://www.arizonacloudbusters.com/aircraft.html it appears they may have replaced the Bo that crashed. The ASN link lists the crashed aircraft as N400DJ and the site lists N27TH.
 
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They did replace it. The previous owner of the Deb sold it to them and joined their club.

Also, check out www.phoenixflyers.org.

With either club, you will pay no sales tax, so figure that in your analysis as well.
 
evapilotaz said:
Is it normal for a flying club to ask for a Credit report with income information. They also what a 39 month DMV report for my driving history.
Not if I have anything to worry about just wondering.
Click to expand...

Well, I am a director of my flying club, with both a C-182 and an Archer, and we require neither. We couldn't really care less about what your credit report says, as long as you pay your club bills. With that said, we don't let members get too far in arrears before asking what's up. We have had a couple guys get in financial trouble and voluntarily quit flying over the years, but never suffered any significant losses due to bad debt.

I was looking into another local club a while back with assets worth maybe $30k total, and they demanded a credit report!

I think it's overkill and a turnoff to prospective members, but as someone else said, it's their club and they can make the rules, however absurd.
 
You get the $4200 back if you leave. Also, their planes have Garmin 430/530s across the board, and lower hourly rates for the Archers than cloudbusters.


Both are good clubs.
 
I believe it's technically one hour, but I don't think they've ever enforced it.
 
dans2992 said:
You get the $4200 back if you leave. Also, their planes have Garmin 430/530s across the board, and lower hourly rates for the Archers than cloudbusters.


Both are good clubs.
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Looks like they have a Archer at Chandler KCHD and Cloud Buster is at Steller. I live 7 miles from Chandler and I'm around 12 miles from Steller. It would be nice to preflight in a hanger out of the AZ Sun.

Thanks.
 
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