Flying Club Lease

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Michael Belfort, Oct 30, 2017.

  1. Michael Belfort

    Michael Belfort Filing Flight Plan

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    I have a PA-23-250 1973 Aztec turbo E with oxygen, de-ice, long range fuel and full Garmin panel with ADS-b and GPSS. Well appointed. I am considering putting it into a flying club to defray costs. Does anyone have any advice as to what a reasonable rental rate for this plane would be and what a reasonable hourly rate for the owner would be?
    Any other advice would be most appreciated.
     
  2. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Are you prepared for insurance rate 3-4x what you are paying now?
    Are you prepared to schedule your own plane just like anynother renter?
    Are you prepared for the 100 hour inspection, which may be much sooner than yearly?
    Are you happy with the shop that will do the inspection and/or maintenance or do you get to choose?
    Have you contacted your insurance company?
     
  3. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

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    I think those answers have to come from you and from the club because they are two different numbers. What is your cost of maintenance and ownership and what are you going to charge the club? Remember that the aircraft will be flying a lot more and potentially by people who don't view it as their aircraft...different in some clubs. You obviously want this number to be as high as possible without being too high.

    Then what the club rents it for is X+ their cut...insurance, operating cost, admin, and overhead. Plus profit if they are a for profit shop, in which case I would not call them a club.

    For a final number - I don't know of many Aztecs in a club setting to compare it to. I think maybe you're stuck with doing cost plus pricing and seeing what the club members are interested in.
     
  4. ripnet

    ripnet Pre-Flight

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    I didn't think you needed a 100hr inspection for a flying club. I thought it was only if you are also providing instruction.
     
  5. FlyingTiger

    FlyingTiger Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I don't know how much this will help but our FBO rents out their Aztec F at $285 per hour.
     
  6. olasek

    olasek Pattern Altitude

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    I wonder how many flying clubs are interested in twins. I belong to a fairly well-to-do flying club in the Bay Area and there is no twin and they have close to 20 airplanes. I checked another flying club which is nearby and they have 51 airplanes and no twin.
     
  7. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    Where are you based?
     
  8. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Sounds too nice to be a leaseback.
     
  9. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    First question... Location.??

    And are you ready to have renters drag their dirty shoes across the seats and drag bags across the threshold?

    When I rented I would have loved to have seen a good twin available, but I would not have been able to fly it more than a couple hours a month.
     
  10. Michael Belfort

    Michael Belfort Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks for all of the comments. The club is in Houston. The rental is $325/hr wet. I will get $60/hr so the price for me when I rent is is 325-60 = 265/hr. There are lot of airline pilots at the club and apparently there is interest in use as a family getaway plane for experienced pilots as opposed to a pure training plane. The leaseback agreement states that there will not be any engine shutdowns and only zero thrust for emergency procedure practice. The club takes care of all routine maintenance costs (annuals, 100 hrs and all oil changes) and all labor for repairs is covered by the club mechanics but I pay for parts at cost +10%. I pay for database uploads. They cover insurance. I pay $250/month for hangering. I would obviously prefer not to have the plane used by strangers, but I am only flying about 5-6 hours a month and this is way to defray costs. Also perhaps a way to find a buyer so I can downsize to a single. Anyone need a beautiful Aztec? Thanks for all the comments.
     
  11. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Turbo + Twin + Flying Club (that actually sounds like an FBO that calls itself a club) = terrible idea. Good luck, you're going to need it.
     
  12. rocketflyer84

    rocketflyer84 Line Up and Wait

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    Most true clubs I know want to own and be in full control of the airplane. Most I know (again true clubs not just some FBO’s ‘club’) also wouldn’t be keen for someone else to put their own plane in the club and then charge it out for profit—true clubs run as not for profits where nobody has a profit interest; it’s just a legal vehicle for a bunch of people to collectively own planes and divide up the costs. Then add a twin turbo on top of all that and yeah that’s messy.
     
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