Flight training "NOT FOR HIRE" in experimental

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Brian Newman, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Brian Newman

    Brian Newman Filing Flight Plan

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    I was wondering if a flight instructor was to volunteer his time, could he teach someone to fly in an experimental as long as he didn't charge for his time? Here's the scenario, we have a young guy at our airport that wants to learn to fly, we have a Light experimental plane available, we have a instructor that would do it for free. So can he?
     
  2. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    the instructor CAN charge for his time...it's the airplane that can't be rented, I believe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  3. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    91.319.

    (e) No person may operate an aircraft that is issued an experimental certificate under § 21.191(i) of this chapter for compensation or hire, except a person may operate an aircraft issued an experimental certificate under § 21.191(i)(1) for compensation or hire to -

    (1) Tow a glider that is a light-sport aircraft or unpowered ultralight vehicle in accordance with § 91.309; or

    (2) Conduct flight training in an aircraft which that person provides prior to January 31, 2010.
     
  4. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    Yeah, that.
     
  5. aftCG

    aftCG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Is "that person" the instructor, or are we to interpret them as either the owner of an experimental plane generating revenue or the new owner of an experimental plane?
     
  6. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Hoping insurance does not kill your plan
     
  7. Brian Newman

    Brian Newman Filing Flight Plan

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    We have a 18 year old kid that helps out at the airport a lot, but we don't have a certified aircraft to teach him in. I have a small ELSA that I'm willing to let a CFI use to teach him at no charge. Also, the CFI is volunteering his time as well.
     
  8. catmandu

    catmandu Cleared for Takeoff

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    Your situation is allowed. As mentioned, insurance concerns will come into play when it is time for student solo flight, unless you want to self insure. It was about a $400 annual bump to make a student a named insured for my $55k airframe.
     
  9. davidgfern

    davidgfern Pre-takeoff checklist

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    An instructor who is providing flight instruction is not operating for compensation or hire. If you have an experimental aircraft, you can hire any instructor at all to provide you with flight instruction. The only potential obstacle is whether or not your insurance company will allow it. When I bought a Titan Tornado about 8 years ago, I arranged with my insurance company to cover both myself and my instructor during my 5 hours of required dual instruction (imposed by the insurance comany). The insurance company also required the instructor to complete 2 hours of solo flight in the aircraft prior to instructing me in it......the insurance company covered this 2 hour time period as well.
     
  10. davidgfern

    davidgfern Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Correct...... pursuant to 91.319 as noted above...... after 1/31/2010 one cannot utilize an experimental aircraft FOR HIRE in which to provide flight instruction..... the pilot must provide their own aircraft and hire an instructor to provide instruction. The intent of the ruling was to prevent experimental aircraft from being put into the rental market for the purposes of flight training.
     
  11. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Also it may be fun to make something work come checkride time.
     
  12. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    The CFI cannot provide flight training for compensation in an experimental aircraft that the CFI provides. The CFI can provide flight training for compensation in an airplane that the student provides.
     
  13. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    I was expecting a big jump when I added a pre-solo student pilot as a co-owner on my plane. My insurance company charged $100 to add him as a second pilot -- one-time fee, not a higher annual premium. The policy already covered any pilot with over 300 hours and at least 5 hours in type.

    It was an interesting situation. The guy had nearly 60 hours of dual tailwheel time and hadn't soloed yet. Why? Because there was nothing available in which he could solo. He was training for a SP certificate, and there was no available light sport qualified plane that he was allowed to fly solo. He was training in Champs, one owned by a club that didn't allow it, and the other owned by his CFI who didn't have insurance for it. Basically, his only option was to buy an airplane to complete his training. I was looking for a partner, so he bought half of mine. Worked out great, he finished up his training and took his checkride in the RV-12 and life's good.
     
  14. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Cleared for Takeoff

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    So I can't teach my cousin Vinny to fly in my homebuilt Wright Flyer, even if I only charge him ten bucks an hour for instruction and nothing for the plane?
     
  15. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    You might get away with it if your name isn't BrYan.
     
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  16. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    That’s really nice of you all
     
  17. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Contact EAA. I am fairly sure there is. LODA for this situation.

    Tim

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  18. RyanShort1

    RyanShort1 En-Route

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    Yeah but those don’t just get handed out to anyone. It’s a lot of work and they don’t have to approve it.
     
  19. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Correct, but there is a route specifically for ESLA for training available. I do not know what it is since I do not have an ESLA.

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